Adam The God

Thought Pederson did a couple of very good things too.

* The players looked tired, but jeez, they looked ordinary in every facet. * Kent's pace stood out, because he's the only one who's got any sort of toe at all - despite Watts' draft result over 20m. * Week in, week out, we lack line breakers. Geelong's two or three line breakers cut us apart numerous times today. We have far too many guys that are simply one-paced. * Our disposal efficiency in the first quarter was not surprisingly below 50%. * I thought Pederson and Riley were clearly our best, although Viney worked his arse off and did a couple of good things too. Slim pickings though. I couldn't name many more half decent players, which says it all. * Our ball movement remained snail-like and continues to kill us every week. * I cannot recall Frawley ever being outmuscled and/or beaten one-on-one so many times, in one game of football. * How many mongrel kicks were there from MFC players today? Far too many. * Was anyone else bored? It was never a contest. It was ugly without being close. The worst sort of AFL game.

Go on...?

Geelong supporters are arrogant, particularly down at the Cattery. But we always bring our D game whenever we play them. I reckon most of their supporters would have been as bored as I was today.

Haven't you been saying he is almost certainly gone, HH? Most teams, Billy, IMO.

Gaff is just the type of player that could help our defensive unit though. He's a beautiful kick. I'd be worried about the bloke he plays on though.

You completely missed the point again. Wow, you are pigheaded.

For me, the majority of the skill errors that cost us on the scoreboard, come from our backline. If we were to swap out Grimes and Terlich from that back six and replace them with sound decision makers, I think we'll see a drop in opposition goals scored from turn overs. This will eventually win us matches. I'd pretty much say only Dunn and whoever we recruit (this is key to the whole plan), are the only defenders allowed to use the ball creatively by foot, coming out of defence. Frawley, McDonald and Garland are too important to leave out of the back six. Dunn has been a revelation and his kicking is now essential to our play off half back. So that leaves two spots. I'd give one to Jetta and I'd rotate two others (as of yet not on our list) to line break and kick efficiently off half back.

I see what you're saying, OD, but I maintain my stance that due to Roos' ability to get the best out of players, if we can cut down on some of those weekly unforced errors that cost us copious goals, we will win at least 4 or 5 more games. We do that and we'll be sitting around 9th, 10th or 11th. I concur with the notion that we too regularly overrate our list, but if we can get a team of 22 role players, who limit their errors, we will be a vastly improved team. Some clever list changes and another pre season, and I think it's not too much of a stretch to say we could win between 8 and 10 games next year. You've got guys like JKH, Salem and Toumpas who should improve incrementally under Roos and co, along with guys like Viney and Tyson too. I'm not going to say we'll make the eight next year, but it should be our target.

The delisting 30 odd players was hyperbole that you pulled out, Saty and it still sounds just as ridiculous. No one is calling for 30 delistings. I think many of us expect there to be wholesale changes though. I couldn't imagine it being anymore than say 12. It is also dependent on contracts though as well. I didn't read many (if any) posters saying they wouldn't back up for next week. I'll be there every week, but that doesn't mean I'll cop continuous errors over and over again, without any sign of progress. As DD notes, none of us should have to, otherwise we may as well get out there and do it ourselves. I don't think it's too much to ask to expect better disposal efficiency. It's clear that quite a few in this group are incapable, so they will eventually be moved on or not relied on to kick or disposal the ball of regularly. The off season is going to be fascinating. I'm looking forward to seeing how Roos reshapes this list. That old chestnut? So we've never played at elite level, therefore we're incapable of determining whether some players are good enough or not? That's akin to those that say if you haven't played at elite level, you're not qualified to coach or commentate the game. It's rubbish. This, once again, is the point of a discussion forum. It's not about calling our players, duds, spuds or whatever. I'm not saying I agree with that, but highlighting that a player isn't good enough, is not potting them. You've had a go at me before for this reason. But, IMO, it's all about the language used and whether the comments are actually thoughtful and/or supported by facts.

I like Jimmy, but if we had to give him up to get PD, I think most would be okay with that. We'd be laughing if we got PD, JC and DS. Even Colyer would provide much need line breaking ability. Get them cleared with ASADA and I'd go hard at them. The only position we'd then need to address is the good decision maker/good kick off half back. We could really push next year if we managed all of that. Obviously though, that second top pick means Chip leaves, so it'd be a straight swap for Carlisle, I'm assuming? What happens if we got a PP? It's conceivable (but highly unlikely) that we'd have three picks inside the top 5. Can't see it flying for the AFL. They have a few clubs that are struggling that they'd probably want to get back up and running quickly. I wonder if we could push for a mid to late first rounder as a PP? Could be handy in some trades or picking up another mid. And then I woke up again.

I think we could improve vastly to become, say a 9th, 10th or 11th side by next year, simply by recruiting one or two players who are sound decision makers off half back. If blokes like McDonald have somebody to handpass it to, he could easily become an A grader. Currently, the majority of our goals conceded, occur directly from our defenders poor decision making or kicking. If we can eradicate most of this, we'll start to win a lot more games and our strangling of the opposition will become far more effective. They will then have to make the play and that opens up the possibility of us being able to force turn overs and create our own scoring chances. At the moment, even when we blanket sides, a lot of the time we eventually turn it over in dangerous areas. This cost us both Bulldogs games for example. Delist or trade out two or three of our poor makers currently in the starting 22 and replace them with better decision makers. I'll back our recruiters and Roos to identify those vital pieces of the puzzle. 2014 is unfortunately another stepping stone season. Next year though, we should be pushing for the eight or at least the fringe. It's very doable, particularly as we have a promising recruiting team now and the genius of Paul Roos.

Satyriconhome - the poster that makes everything personal. Seriously, it's a discussion forum. Just because a few posters views do not align with your own, does not make them dumb.

Agree with the first bit.

Bigger picture. Horrible kicking didn't help, but goals from midfield is where it's at. You could argue, we had one goal from midfield - Bail's. He was playing in the forwardline though, so really not one of our mids could hit the scoreboard in a meaningful way and we couldn't get a spread of goal kickers in there. It's a good point, mate. We didn't put enough scoreboard pressure on them. So when Freo were looking switched off early on, we needed to make it count then. Who knows what happens then. It's an incredibly obvious point, but we will know when things have turn, when we are consistently placing scoreboard pressure on our opponents. I think it's more about who is available and pushing for selection in the VFL. There's nothing. That has to be it, doesn't it? They don't want to gift games to guys in the VFL, but ironically they're having to gift games to a number of players who should be resting. Our depth is non existent. In an ideal world, you wouldn't be playing Salem, Tyson or Viney every week. Tyson needs a rest and Salem has struggled for a number of weeks now. The positive thing, I guess, is that Salem is getting a chance to build his engine with AFL game time. With ball in hand, he's already shown us that he is a wonderfully creative and dangerous player, particularly inside forward fifty. Given the lack of reinforcements, I can understand why the FD keeps playing him every week though. Yeah, I remember him playing a dominant game against Port a season or two ago.

Tyson's played 28 games. Grimes has played 83 games and yes, when you have © next to your name, more should be expected of you. Further, when you get the ball more, there's a higher chance you'll turn it over more. When your captain is the one making horrible decisions (and it's not just his clangers - it's his ability to consistently putting team mates under pressure with dumb football), it must deflating for the rest of the team. That's not leadership. That's the opposite, IMO. He might be a great professional off the field, but he has severe limitations on the field.

How can people keep defending his efforts though? Easily the worst captain in the league. His kicking and decision making has not improved one iota. It's embarrassing. In fact, I'd say his game has stagnated or gone backwards. Ever since Roos has started to implement a slightly more attacking flair into our game, his kicking and decision making has been consistently shown up as not good enough for this level. Roos will probably delist Terlich again too. I'd love to know why he delisted him last time. I wonder if it was his horrible decision making and kicking? I'm disappointed, but it merely continues to highlight the guys that won't make it. I'm at that point in the season now that I can't wait for the off season, which is perhaps the most disappointing thing. I'm looking forward to seeing how Roos and co turn over the list though. I wonder how ruthless they'll be. Will it be upward to 12 again? Quite easily. I actually think our midfield is slowly getting there. As we all know though, those that are out there, need reinforcements. At least, another two. Jamar's tap work is regressing again though and Gawn's tap work is solid, but he is a liability up forward. He's a giant and he rarely takes contested marks on undersized opponents. He needs to learn to use his body. Roos and co can only do so much, if our ruckmen can't influence the game enough to give our mids first use.

Melbourne's first turn over from Grimes. Of course. Gawn should have marked that.

My point was more that their manager would suggest a detached business decision and the player would realise, 'they're right, my career is only so long - I'll bite the bullet'.

Decent player. Essendon have stuffed him around. They should have kept him back instead of playing funny buggers and throwing him forward...and then back...and then forward...and then back. I have two questions for you, JVFP. 1) Why would we need him? 2) Where did you hear it? I wouldn't say no, but if it was at the expense of improving our midfield, I'd question the decision.

I think it's more about what players are 'advised' to do these days. I'm sure club loyalty is often there, but an agent comes in and advises on a business decision. That's what it is and footy careers are short, so eventually the business wins over the heart/loyalty.

I take it you're referring to right now? There's no way anyone else compares to Judd in that list of players, except G Ablett. Who, for the record, has been a more consistent elite player over the journey, IMO.

I know it wasn't exactly what the OP was asking, but who says we can't have a couple at once? Having said that, Hogan.

I missed the coverage today, but I just wanted to throw this question out there. I hope I'm not derailing the thread, but would people prefer to take a Petracca with our first pick (if he's there) or trade that pick for Shiel or Treloar (if available and willing)? We know the latter two can perform at AFL level, they'll have three years under their belts and they're plug and plays. I'll trust the FD's decision, but at this stage of our development, I'd be luring a GWS mid.

Troooooooooll.