Adam The God

Only a group of Melbourne supporters would want to change their premiership winning coach for an untried senior coach because he played for Melbourne. It's as bad as Essendon supporters entertaining Hird as a coach because he's a legend of their club. It's real big brain stuff.

I could have put this in the game plan thread too, but it'll be fascinating to see the ramifications of tonight's loss on list management and game plan. It's very easy to panic at the list management table and throw the baby out with the bath water vis a vis the game plan, but I do wonder how the end to our season will influence how we view say our forward line for 2023. It would appear having Max as a forward and Grundy as our main ruck is a terrible idea based on Max's influence forward in the last few weeks, but if Grundy and Max were fit, maybe they'd form a super dangerous partnership? Then we have Petty the forward, who outside of Max is our best contested mark. 2019 is evidence enough that he'd be a capable forward. So does the season ending in the way it did mean we actually go Petty forward instead of Max, or does it mean both go forward and Grundy comes in? I think it's interesting that Goodwin and co admitted last week they should have played Gawn in the ruck more. That to me suggests they're not completely sold on Max as the 80% forward / 20% ruckman. Then there's JVR and whoever we get back for LJ (if he goes). As for how these things influence game plan changes, does Petty and/or Gawn going forward allow us to move the ball more centrally? Kicking to the pocket means slingshot is harder against, but kicking centrally puts more pressure on the opposition and leaves more space for our crumbers. Have we also seen the last of Melksham, Hibberd, Hunt and ANB in Melbourne jumpers?

May struggled for large parts of tonight though. Played a brilliant game on Buddy except for the 50m. But like last year and much of this year, when the ball was on the ground or the ball came in quickly, May panics. Max's dreadful tap work gave up 4 goals tonight. Controversial, but if he's not taking it out of the ruck, which is a good play for him, his tap work is a liability. Opposition teams learnt to read his taps years ago. Max and mids never seemed on the same page and it meant he would be tapping to space where we'd be out of position. Danger time. It's not a one week thing either. A fit Max is exceptional around the ground, elite, best in the game, but at stoppages he's too predictable.

Spot on. And there are wider ramifications. We had 65k+ members this year. Make a prelim, banged up, I think 2023 sees us still on target for 70k+, but going out in straights could well cost us 5-10k members next year.

It's probably early for this in the wash up, but Griffith did oversee Brisbane when they went out in straight sets a couple of times too...

Correct, I don't, but each to their own.

Nonsense. No one ever called it a panacea, just that it was a major factor. Talk about re-write history...

Just on Richmond, they're going to give up multiple first rounders for two solid B+ graders. I guess there's not a lot else on the market, but those two wouldn't scare me.

Great post mate. It's an interesting discussion because the l wonder whether it comes down to a black and white decision in list management terms. You either try to do what Geelong has done and keep your club around the mark and hope to challenge. Or, you draft a group of players together like we did and go really hard for 5 years and see if you can win 2 or 3 flags and then bottom out and load up again. The more time goes on, and having won the flag last year, my view on this is we should be aiming for the latter strategy. With the Grundy chase and the long term deals everywhere, it would appear the FD is of a similar view.

My point is it's not over and if we beat Brisbane, we're a big shot against Geelong...

You know it's possible that LJ has said no to Freo, so Haselby, a former Freo man, plays some media games to downplay LJ.

It'll be interesting if LJ stays. I wonder, could we play LJ, Max and Grundy? Play LJ as a midfielder..

Surely that's the thinking.

Sounds like Clarkson doesn't want to rebuild. He wants to hit the ground running if this is remotely true.

And yet we'd be two wins off a flag and a big shot against Geelong on the MCG.

It's the pressure up the ground. Our half forwards and mids didn't do enough to ensure Sydney's entries were dirty or wide. They went pretty centrally because there wasn't enough pressure on the ball carrier. I'd love to know our post clearance pressure ratings over the last two months.

I don't think the club rates them, otherwise I reckon they might have changed things up earlier in the year. But perhaps the FD made the decision to try one more year of what worked so well last year and then re set in 2023?

I think we're kind of saying the same thing here. We're allowing more room for our slingshot. We haven't been effective because we've been heavily loading, which affects transition. But you could well be right with it not being second nature as loading should not have been impacting us in the last few games. Are you saying we've only just started sitting the zone deeper?

I think 2023 provides us with the opportunity to chase some pressure smalls. That's what Richmond built their side around until they landed Lynch to compliment Riewoldt. They need to be clean and hard at the ground ball. It seems a ready made KPF won't be on the market, so I'd prefer we go small. It may mean changing our ball movement or it may not. Having quick and dangerous ground level players everywhere will frighten defenders and make it easier for any talls we try to anchor around forward of centre.

Also, the idea that we can't get it done in front of big hostile crowds, yet we travel brilliantly, is real big brain stuff.

If it's in aid of trying to score more (by sitting our zone deeper, allowing more room for our own slingshot), then I don't see it as arrogant. But our game style revolves around post clearance pressure, which brings our interceptors into the game. Whilst we haven't seemed to be as good at that in the second half of the year, we were definitely solid enough in the first half of the year. This is why Goodwin rates the post clearance pressure stats and they are not readily available to the public, so we've no idea where we sit in those numbers. Match that with our ability to win CP being -1 or even -2 at contest, IMV, there's little arrogance about it. It's trying to maximise our strengths (our intercept game and just about the best midfield in the game). I do think there are times where we let -2 happen at contest when we shouldn't, but that's a philosophical position and I get that's a hard thing to implement - knowing when to send an extra up to the contest. It basically has to be player driven.

You've been pretty much absent except for coming onto the boards last year and this year to pot our current president.

The idea that we need elite users is a complete furphy. If we bring the pressure around contest (in particular post clearance) and win ground balls, finesse is irrelevant.

I think the big problem is the gun KPF we need isn't available or willing to come to Melbourne. Therefore, we're looking at trying to maximise our strength in the ruck. IMV, we need to look at a different forward make up entirely next year anyway.

I just love him. He is one of a small few who can hold their heads high tonight.