Adam The God

Wow, Collingwood 25 points up with 7.35 left. What a choke.

Of those games, we won the Port game and had a horrible first quarter against Carlton, otherwise the game style held up. And you can't blame the game style on the West Coast loss. Not sure if you were at the Brisbane game, but that also had nothing to do with game plan. We were as flat as a tack. As for stop Cripps and Walsh as some sort of master plan, easier said than done. I acknowledge that we've had 4 very ordinary, verging on pathetic results this year. Game style may have a small impact on this as we adjust to the new style, just as I said Collingwood and Carlton faced. Remember the Carlton nuffies wanted Voss sacked midway through last year and then they make a prelim. Again, I'm not prepared to write off the game style just yet. I think it's our inability to implement it for 4 quarters that is seeing our form fluctuate.

So much kneejerk to one result, albeit a dreadful result. You get all the kneejerkers like King and co questioning the game style. It was never going to click immediately. We saw how long it took for it to click at Collingwood in McRae's first season. They were all over the shop in the first 10 rounds of 2022. Similar can be said of Carlton under Voss last year. More patience is needed. I think we may revert to a forward half territory game in the absence of Lever and other incepting options for a few weeks, but I'd prefer we kept trying to play the way we want to play and then be strengthened by the inclusion of Lever.

What was your point? You tried to say we turned him into something he wasn't and I said he won us a flag... Game, set and match, Binmans PA.

And we won a flag with him...

@Lucifers Hero (love that you're back posting again), didnt we go for Ben Brown instead of Wright? IMV, BB was the better bet at the time.

I think this is fair, but there is some 20/20 hindsight here.

As he says in the presser, Shane gets his go because of injuries. ie we wouldn't have played him yet were it not for JVR and Turner being out.

Both our wingers play defensive sweeper/goalkeeper at most D50 stoppages if the opposition pushes their forwards out of the goalsquare.

There's no reason why the plan to play Salo through the midfield won't resume with his return. That was the plan had he not been injured. Unless we go Rivers into the middle. But given the pre season, I think it'll be Salem into the midfield rotation.

That's precisely why I reckon you're off about Fritta. It's a bit feast or famine given modern ball movement, and the fact we like to play a deeper defensive set up with less emphasis on inside 50s and more on rebound 50s.

I'm usually with you on Fritta's defensive game in tackling terms, but you're way off here IMO.

Good call. Me too. If we can use his contest and ground ball game to release our slingshot from ground ball/contest situations in D50 that's utilising his skill set. But then I'd prefer we then play ultra defensive from centre clearance, at least when things go against us. Our mids should stand up to stem the tide against and shift momentum back in our favour.

Were our centre stoppage set ups too aggressive in the first quarter? Even when they started putting scores on us, we never really reverted to a defensive set up, and continued to go for the clean break away clearance.

I'm hoping come Rounds 15-16ish our more expansive, attacking method has become more instinctive as it did Collingwood in 2022. I do think the most fascinating watch is our midfield. What did you think of our centre stoppage set ups last night? I felt they were far too aggressive for too long.

I disagree mate. I think we deliberately reverted to a forward half territory, long ball game because of the rain, and yes, partly because they started so strongly. But in essence I agree with the premise that progress in not linear. I think we can still greatly improve our entries with a longer kicking and forward half half if that is what the conditions call for. That said, one of the admirable things about Collingwood last year is that whatever the conditions, their method remained the same.

This 100%. We did it far too often.

So who comes out for Salo? And does McAdam not fit in? I think Woey is a good sub because he's shown he can play half back or half back. It provides great flexibility for us. I don't think he's best 22 though.

Yep, this was my view too. Hugely aggressive set ups. I kept thinking we'll have to go ultra defensive at this next centre bounce, and then we'd leave the entire defensive side of the stoppage open. Really poor work IMV. Sometimes you have to stem the bleeding. And if we're defence first, let's stop the momentum by not allowing them to win centre clearance.

I think this is an overreaction to last night. Our forward craft and entries has been improving all year. And just the previous week, we had arguably our best forward game of the year, against arguably the second best defensive set up and personnel in the league. Last night however, for the first 2.5 quarters our forward entries were horrible. But we changed our game style to play for territory in the rain, versus the keepings off tempo game we played in drier conditions last week.

I actually think we played the first 15 minutes of the first quarter with our usual method. We tried to slingshot from the back, and then when they started piling on the scores and some rain arrived, we changed our method and played long and tried to take territory.

Sorry, but I'm going to pull you up on this. No one is saying clearances can't be important, but we're urging caution in how we read those stats. Just taking stats in isolation doesn't necessarily tell us anything.

But again, you're missing the point I was making after the Richmond game. We didn't allow goals out the front of stoppage, we didn't allow them out the front of stoppage at all, so you're not comparing apples with apples. The clearance numbers themselves don't necessarily tell you anything. If the team isn't winning clearance out the front of stoppage with little post clearance pressure, then we're in good shape behind the ball. But if our mids play like they did from centre clearances last night, we undermine our defence and open ourselves up. Richmond game, Carlton game, completely different games. How many goals from stoppage did Richmond score? And how many goals from stoppage did Carlton score? That is your answer. You seem to be going for a gotcha moment, but it isn't there.

What? Like his brilliant pass to Max under pressure? Sure, he makes some errors, I've been critical of him in the past, but he becoming a super damaging player with his run and carry, and his willingness to take on the corridor kick. He's become one of our most important players for our new method IMO.

You're talking about tonight, which I agree with. Richmond game, I did not.