montasaurus

That belting Geelong handed out disagrees with point 1

A more solid preseason with less injuries in the lead up may have given a far different outcome. we may not have beaten them but the result would have been less likely. We gave them a real run for their money only a few weeks later at their home. What was different that day?

We had not won a game preseason, we had issues off the field before that, a massive injury list around the new year, new game plan, leadership issues with the snr players (green/mclean) etc etc. I think this supports pt1. Currently all of these issues have been crossed off and there seems to be a real belief and momentum building (fingers crossed) and hopefully that can turn into confidence in NAB cup and carried into rd 1.

I found the fact that Bailey subsequently offered CJ a 2 year deal even more bemusing.

lets not argue over words, i'll stand corrected on that one!

But check your facts mo64 re the 2yr deal, he was offered this deal prior to indicating his wish to leave. But the last question still stands - how would have you handled it differently?

LOL! I like your optimism. Just have to get over the Hawks.

In all honesty I go into every game expecting to lose after 2 years from hell.

2 things that I have in my optimistic mind at the moment.

1/ The gap b/w the top and the bottom is as close as it has ever been - therefore a little confidence, bonding, momentum can be the difference refer WB last couple of years.

2/ We have been decimated by injuries to key players for 3-4 years. If we are lucky enough/manage injuries well who knows. All top sides for the last 10yrs have had wonderful runs with injury. The filth is a perfect example, top of the ladder one year, bottom the next.

therefore am I wrong to be feeling a little optimistic about the NAB cub?

STOP PRESS:

ABC Radio announced that Shane Watson has a stress fracture in his back and will be out for up to six weeks and will only resume batting and wont bowl for up to six months.

Geez, he would have to do wonderful things in 2009/2010 to even get a consideration. Questions over both his batting and bowling at the top level with a serious dark cloud over his body.

Wow, the search for the next young allrounder has just started I think!

David Hussey is great but too old, so who else is in line?

What a load of crap. You dare to criticize Ron Burgandy's logic, when the basis of your arguments are factually incorrect.

Where are your facts again? I did not want to do this as another thread has covered this already. Actually it is your info that is worthless.... Please read on

Point 1. He didn't walk out on the club. He was put on the trade table by the club. What message does that send to a fringe player? No acceptable trade was forthcoming. Another club offers him a better contract. Of course he's going to accept it.

1stly have a good read of this before you comment re point 1.

http://www.melbournefc.com.au/tabid/7415/D...px?newsid=69495

“To do this, we offered Chris a new two year contract, but unfortunately he wanted to play for another, rival AFL club, and subsequently asked to be delisted."

also, have a quick read of:

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/sport/afl...0-19742,00.html

"The Blues made a play for the son of former Demons star Alan in the trade period, offering a late pick above 100 in a bargain-basement bid.

But Melbourne held firm, hoping to talk Johnson around. In talks with coach Dean Bailey after the trade period, Johnson could not tell the Demons he wanted to play for them and he was delisted. Melbourne believes he will end up at Carlton under coach Brett Ratten and assistant Mark Riley, who coached him at the Demons. It is understood the Blues medical staff contacted the Demons almost three weeks ago wanting information on Johnson's physical condition.

Also...... CJ's manager:

But Johnson's manager, Liam Pickering of IMG, questioned why Melbourne would even contemplate re-drafting a player who did not want to play for them.

"Melbourne should be looking elsewhere. They'll be getting a player who doesn't want to be there," said Pickering

I don't think anything more needs to be said. Clearly Johnson wanted out and an under the table deal was done with carlton well before the trade period. We were offered pick >100 and decided to try to keep him as a required player. What message does that send? We were trying to stand by our player in my book, but he wanted to act like a rat leaving a sinking ship, well we have every right to be dissapointed and angry with him.

Point 2. Yes you are wrong. No players gave him a send-off in the day in question. In fact, Sylvia sympathetically suggested that he should leave the field.

I think you may have just contradicted yourself here, and I am yet to see a report that sylvia was sypathetic.

So the snr coach, a snr player? where are the facts that sylvia was sympathetic. there was an article a while back that painted a very different picture re the exchange. unfortunately I am unable to find it. This article was I think CC talking about CJ coming in to tell them he was leaving and so he was sent out to look DB in the eye and tell him in front of the playing group. The outcome was he was told to leave the field by DB and correct me if I am wrong as he was walking off there was a reported exchange between sylvia and CJ. Last time i checked an "exchange" is anything but sympathy.

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/sport/afl...8-19742,00.html

"The way Dean ended it, he made it easier for me. I wanted to go over (during training) and say thank you but he didn't let me do that."

Suggest next time research your response a little better before launching an attack on somebody!

I agree with Hards and Ron, the situation was handled poorly, and reflects badly on the club.

so now with my "factually incorrect information" on the table what exactly should have the club done? maybe a going away tea party in the middle of training would have been suitable, or a kiss on the cheeck from the snr coach in front of the playing group -

"the situation was handled poorly" - What a ridduclas statement to make, hindsight is always so easy! So tell me. Your dean baily, setting a new policy of zero tolerence at a club that has seen to be soft and has had issues on and off the field for years and you have a fringe player like CJ come to you in front of the main group at training tell me how you would have handled it differently....... keep in mind there was no chance the club could have kept him at any stage leading up to the trade week. If he has "friends/mates" at the club that took offense to this, then maybe they should be the first to go at the end of 09. this type of soft rubbish is no longer welcome at our great club and for me it is good to see!

BTW - as I have already stated I really rated CJ's improvement in 09 and was sad to see him go,

but facts are facts! :angry:

You forget Shaun Tate.

Nannes is 31 and a wild card. The difference between his best and worst is wide and he is too much a risk for where Australia is at the moment. Hilfenhaus moves the ball to slips to the right hander and was in the Melbourne 13. Bollinger is on his home ground. I would favour Hilfenhaus.

As usual Rhino, impossible to argue your logic and I do agree Hilfenhaus would have to be 1st pick on paper ATM. I was never a huge wrap for tate even at state level yes he was quick, but i would argue not dangerous. Nannes has an ability to make balls rise off a fuller length then most, hence why he is so dangerous. However I don't think being 31 is too old being that we have johnson and siddle ahead of everbody else and both are young.

Therefore who knows a suprise could well be sprung but I think you are right The difference between his best and worst is wide and is a concern. However - this could even be an advantage if he is in form, which he seems to be he could well spark something special! The argument against my logic is that both siddle and johnson can be a little wayward at times and it is maybe too much of a risk to add a 3rd wild card to the attack. But it would ceratainly make our 1st bowling session an interesting one to watch!

I agree it doesn't have to wait for trains, to schedule a match at Casey. But the long term possibility of a boutique stadium (ie 20k seated @ $50-60 million)probably wouldn't get off the ground without a govt commitment to a station nearby. Nevertheless, the planets are coming into alignment for this to happen in about a decade.

In the meantime matches could be played at Casey with little additional infrastructure beyond what is currently planned at the VFL oval. There would be very little seating - it would be standing room only.

There has already been a crowd of 10,000+ for Hawthorn v Essendon in 2007 (NAB Challenge series).

The Casey Fields Boulevard connections would be necessary, but that's only a couple of years away. A possible scenario could be:

2009 - NAB Challenge match

2010 - NAB Cup match (the building extensions would be finished IF MFC signs the agreement with the Council)

2011 - AFL match (Melb v Freo??) if the Casey Fields Boulevard works are complete, otherwise 2012.

Seating is easy, there would be a warehouse full of it for the GP. a few port-a-loo's and caravans selling hot food/beer.

It would be awsome - bring on 2010

Get your grandmother to call Andrew Hilditch quickly before the Sydney Test. Her spin and experience will be vital.

:lol: :lol:

I wonder if she can bat at the top of the order as well!

I agree, Hards. It's easy to talk tough about the treatment of a player (who according to the majority of you) was ordinary and a borderline player in terms of our best 22. His treatment does not reflect well on the club - in short, it seems to have been handled unprofessionally. The analysis above also doesn't reflect well on many of you either - but masses rarely think in an objective, measured way.

I really like Bailey. I really like Connolly. I love this club. I think it is definitely heading in the right direction ... finally. But it seems to me that the treatment of Johnson has been handled poorly, particularly if he is only a marginal player - and particularly given that he would share solid friendships with many other more important players on the list. Not smart stuff - and not the kind of stuff that builds a good culture, despite the tough talking smuck that some of you are churning out ...

Ron, well done standing up with your views but unfortunately I just cannot agree with your logic.....

"it seems to have been handled unprofessionally" - a player is offered a contract and decides at the last minute to pull the pin and walk because it is not up to his expectaions. That is what is unprofessional and the reason that "We the masses" are so upset. Had have he come to the club and be put up for trade we would not be having this discusion. Make no mistakes, CJ, His management and the CFC are to blame for how this was handled not the MFC. Do you really think for a minute if he really wanted to be at the MFC he would have let this happen? The writing was on the wall, we are in a cut throat business too bad we move on. He was offered 1 year to prove himself and decided at the last minute that obviasly he was not up to the challenge. This could be said about any fringe player that has been delisted at any club. Its a hard business and your either up to it or not. If CJ has an impact with the blues I will gladly eat my words but this reaks of a spoilt brat that felt he was bigger then the club.

"particularly given that he would share solid friendships with many other more important players on the list" - What proof do we have of this, he could well have not been liked at all and correct me if i am wrong but it was some of the players that gave him a send off on the day in question.

"and not the kind of stuff that builds a good culture" - we I guess we should all kiss and make up then.

Good culture? I think this is the exact message that DB and the club are setting. They are there to play for each other, not spoilt little boys playing for themselves. The only sad thing to come out of this is that he is AJ's son. If he did not have this link I think the bad blood would be even worse! Keep in mind we didn't delist him, he left us after any chance of trade for the club. What he has done is worse scott thompson- at least he gave his intentions early and gave the clubs a chance to work things out with his desired location. Likewise Jolly.

So to say that the treatment of Johnson has been handled poorly, is just so far from the reality of the situation. :angry: and I think any supporter has the right to feel let down by CJ and I hope all voice their real feelings next time he crosses paths with us!

(for what it is worth I wish him well still, but be prepared for a verbal bashing if he plays against us!)

The WBFC would much prefer to play that game in Victoria and make the same amount of money than play it in Darwin.

I have never seen the WBFC come out and state this, actually they have always claimed how happy they are. If they were to play a game anywhere except the dome I think it would be in geelong as this is closest to the growth corridoors in the west.

St.Kilda has one of the worst stadium deals with Collins apparently.

Again source? but they have had their chance with the casey zone before us and chosen against it. Very strange descision to walk away, it will be interesting where stkilda is at off field in 3-5 yrs vs the dees. Who knows they could well be where we were or worse at in the middle of 08.

I have them penciled in ATM as the next club to fall in a heap onfield. Retirement of champions, not much young talent coming through, reasonable finishis each year = low picks, a board history of instability etc etc. Who knows the saints could become the devils (As in Tassie Devils). I would be very suprised to see Stkilda involved initially with any new stadium like this.

Richmond struggle, like most clubs, to make money at the G against Freo and the like.

Agree, but only when they are not going well. If the tigers are rolling they will pull 35k+ I have a feeling that strange smell of moth balls might be in the air in 09 (well early at least).

All these issues lead me to believe they wouldn't mind playing two to three games each year at a small stadium that they can make money out of.

Agree re making money out of it, but I don't think there would be as many games as you are suggesting initially. If its a success for 1 or 2 clubs others will then get on. Re freo crowds the same could be said of probably any club ex collingw#@d. Ess and Carl can both pull under 30k for intersate games at times, but i think a game at casey would not be in their direction. It would be the clubs that are currently selling home games interstate. Therefore MFC,Kanga's, Bullies. Take bullies off the list as I would expect them to play in geelong if this was the case. This leaves original 2 to give 3-4 games/year plus preseason. I will agree that if it was to take off then it is likely more games would be played especially if an 18th side came in. But at this point you would have to budget for only 17 sides by 2020.

Can I also make a point that i think it is a discrace that we sell our home game v syd away. They were the 1 interstate team that we would always get a reasonable crowd due to the sth melb connection. v Bris fair enough but to do it against sydney is a joke and we are the laughing stock of the AFL every time we play a home game in canberra.

the quicker we get out of this deal the better. Play freo somewhere, play WC somewhere, Even port or adel. But STOP playing the swans in canberra. It doesn't work at all for us and all we are doing is growing supporter base for the swans! I would be happy to play any of these sides even on the GC until their side comes in. The game does not work for us. I would suggest we were better off playing bris in bris - at least it wasn't growing their supporter base! Why did north walk away from this deal - it gave them nothing long term!

Hence why casey is a must! I don't think it has to wait for trains, surely the local council and state government would have enough buses to shuttle back into the city etc. 15k would not cause massive traffic jams. (I'll take a deep breath now!)

My ins......Hilfenhaus, Hughes (although Klinger has claims) and I think they will give Watson a last chance to do something to prove he belongs as either a batsman or bowler.

Might be my biased Vic views coming through, but I think Dirk Nannes is a real dark horse to get a game. Hilfenhaus and Bollinger are ahead of him on paper but having a bloke who is capable of anything in the side, I'm not sure if he even knows where he is bowling it sometimes but with a new pill could well bring something that we have not seen from an aussie paceman in a while - a bit of mongrel!

How good would it be to see smith like this!

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,2...07-2882,00.html

Klinger has to be given a chance or the selectors are kidding themselves. You can't select a kid that has made a couple of good knocks into the test side. Klinger is the highest run scorer and like katich should be given his opportunity. If not what sort of message will the selectors be sending to the nation again! Surely being that he no longer plays for victoria he is a better chance

Full credit to Punter. Under alot of pressure and he has stood up where others have withered. A test and a touch of class.

Well said!

Here are the games that Chris Johnson would've got a pass mark in his 31 games for the Dees.

2006:

WCE V Melb - rd 9

Melb V St Kilda - rd 10

2007:

Melb V Rich - NAB Regional Challenge

2008:

Rich V Melb - rd 12

Melb V Bris - rd 14

WB V Melb - rd 15

Freo v Melb - rd 16

Melb V Nth - Rd 17

So that's 7 home & away games and 1 practice match where CJ was AFL standard. Is he in our best 22? Hell no!

Bye bye to bad rubbish.

To note as well we had been heavily hit by injury by rd 12 which was the only reason he got a game at this stage. The writing was on the wall well before this point.

Couldn't agree more with your last words Bring-Back-Powell, what are we going to see next a Brent Gergic appreciation post. To those who are supporting CJ - Please!

Under the same opportunity Gergic would have had the same impact last season as CJ and how many snr games did he play with geelong after he was traded? 0

He was always going to resume full training at the start of Jan. This gives him 2 full months of preparation before hopefully playing in the final 2 practice matches. I'm optimistic he'll be there for round 1.

Don't you mean hopefully play the last 2 nab cub games??

Love your Optimism.

Its like climbing K2 one day then climbing Everest the very next day!!!

Or like the Dee's finishing top 4 in 09. I guess we all have to be a little optimistic at this stage! It must be rubbing off!

The series has been decided because South Africa are streets ahead of Australia in this series in all facets. You would need about 15 bad decisions in Australia's favour to even it. We at risk of losing the series 3-0.

Fair call, but who knows we could be getting too far ahead of ourselves. Clark and Pointing are still both in and could easily be a part of setting a winning target. Just need the bowlers to step up.

better off building a stand at punt road

To line richmonds pockets?

you would be better to save the money and just play in geelong!

Absolutely. The sooner these regrettable human errors are erased from the game the better.

I cant wait till a Test Match/ Series is "decided" by a dubious disasterous decision.

RR you may have already had your wish - Series is "decided", Hayden and now Hussey. Could have drawn the 1st test and the way we are going in the second the test could be over by this time tomorrow.

In this day and age I just can't understand why this was not in yrs ago. Have some sort of heafty penalty if the challenge is not upheld though. eg -20 runs! or if >2 turned down captain sits out the next game just to stop time wasting.

Isn't up to the Captain to bowl him? You can only take wickets if you are given the ball to bowl?

Thats assuming he is fit to bowl which clearly he is not. Therefore is it symonds claiming he is fit thats to blame or the selectors that are at fault? The captain can only direct the cattle he has on the park.

Cheers Davis333, but that still leaves a few questions.

The players whose contracts expire at the end of 2009 can be split into 3 groups.

Last years draftees: Morton, Grimes, Maric, Cheney and McNamara. Considering the last 2 were bottom age I wouldn't expect any of those guys to be delisted

Middle age players: Bell, Davey, Jamar, McLean, Miller, Meesen and Sylvia

Older players: McDonald, Robertson, Whelan

That list claims Bell and Meesen are out of contract at the end of this year but in the Melbourne list 2009 thread in the drafting and trading section people are saying both are contracted until Oct 2010. This needs clarifacation as they are 2 prime candidates to be delisted at years end if they don't improve this year. Davey, McLean, Sylvia and probably Miller are all safe unless Watts and Jurrah develop very quickly into kpf's. If PJ, Spencer or Meesen can't dislodge Jamar from #1 ruck he'll stay also.

The older players are all possible retirements but none are certain and will depend on injuries, form and willingness to continue. Not a lot of wriggle room imo, unless all 3 older players retire

So Assuming all 3 older players wish to continue into 2010 which is quite possible we have little or even no room to move come draft time. This tells me there will either be a couple of forced retirements or a busy trade period. Eg Player _________ and pick 10 for pick 6 or something like this. If we have another bad on field year, don't be supprised if a couple of big name players are moved on especially if we have picks 1+2.

great post - furious d

Its funny that we traded a third round pick for him and Adel thought they were being ripped off but because we had a higher PSD position had to let him go or get nothing. They also offered him a contract so people in the AFL must thing he can play.... hopefully he proves it

I've spent the 1st half of last season talking up what a steal we got him for............ Then I saw him play a couple for sandy.

Needs to take a big step this year or will find himself uncontracted at the end of 2010. I really hope he comes on as we need another ruckman moving forward.

MC - 6/10 (8) given his wicket away too often since india, showed a bit on the 1st day MCG. Scores over the past twelve months would suggest he has performed credibly. - I think the 1st innings could have been a turning point for clark. Working as hard as he did to then come out the next morning and find it easy. Lets hope he has just stepped up.

AS - 2/10 (7) as above, no impact with ball. Agree but a harsh rating number. Has not bowled that much so unlikely to have impact - He is in the side as the allrounder therefore by not bowling he has achieved only half the maximum he could have. Being that he has had a limited impact with the bat I then rated him being 50% effective.

MH - 2/10 (9) out of sorts. If AS is a 2 then Hussey hardly gets a 1! - I thought was OK against NZ in the 1st test?

MJ - 6/10 (6) one great spell and has not had the impact outside of this. Leading wicket taker in India, leading wicket taker against NZ, Leading wicket taker against SA..... are you sure RR................. or is it ?? LOL!!

I was thinking the 80's against NZ.

I think if Symonds fails today then Sydney might be his last Test.....if he get another one.

Hayden, ML c: Duminy b: Steyn 23

I think Hayden has just beaten symonds to it. the only thing that will save hayden now is announce his retirement for the end of the series and have symonds out inj for sydney!

I was thinking the 80's against NZ.

I think if Symonds fails today then Sydney might be his last Test.....if he get another one.

Thats my thinking as well. the selectors will take a "safe" approach for sydney and not make too many changes. if both symonds and hayden fail today hayden will be the unlucky one but if he makes runs and symonds fails he is out. Adds a bit of interest into today's proceedings.

But watch out for the ash's tour it will be one of the least experienced squads we have had in a long time.

Absolutely agree.

Symonds - Completely agree with Graz. Needed to make an impact with the bat. Gets the start then throws it away. Needs a big innings today or its over. His injury does not help either. Watson does not excite as his bowling and batting is wooden and his fitness is a real concern.

Great Post RR, Cannot fault your logic here except due to lees injury can't see symonds being dropped for sydney but I would like to see this happen.

Which australian side would have been the last one to have had this type pressure on it on home soil? I'm thinking back to the 80's when the Kiwi's rolled us.

Interesting that a potential captain selection in McDonald isn't making very many teams.

Good call, if Jnr is fit he is a shoe in for any game in 09. That's even if he is not captain.

Ideal world, yeah. But how can we hope to do that?

Frankly, a boutique stadium will only come about with the strength of club numbers. MFC, NMFC, ST.KFC, RFC, and WBFC require a small stadium to make money out of.

I can't see any of ST.KFC, RFC, and WBFC playing home games at casey in the short term. The bullies have the NT match which is a boutique game and has worked well so far. Richmond provided they are going ok have the support to not require a smaller ground and I think the saints would stay at the dome. North would definately benifit from a small ground like this and I would be more then happy to share this ground with other sides provided we never play a vic side there (expect for geelong!) How good would it be to have a game sold out to MFC members only! I would hate to be one of the umpires that day!