sue

When Brown was standing on the mark recently with his legs apart and his arms stretched out (not in a disrespectful way of course) it looked to me like his arms were as long as his legs. (Yes, I probably need new glasses.)

Are players to be allowed to abuse their opponents in the shared workplace?

After listening to Goody (twice) I have no idea if he was pumping up Weid because he is in, or because he was trying the lessen the blow of leaving him out.

Geat idea. I reckon the idea of fining (or worse for repeat offenders) AFTER the game makes a lot of sense. Other 50m penalties are for things that affect the play - eg infringing protected zone,, delaying tactics, etc.. Whereas umpire dissent or even abuse has no effect on the play. So the penalty shouldn't either. Furthermore, the 50m penalty will be a joke when the game is at a stage that players don't give a flying fig about being punished. Eg if the Hawks were 10 goals ahead or behind when Hawkins did that dive, a lot of youngsters would still see some poor role models.

Who knows what the match committe knows that we don't, nor what long term plans they might have. But I'd ask those who say Brown should work back and prove himself in the VFL like any other player, would they apply that if the other player was Trac or Max or Oliver? Barring reasons related to recovery from injury, I'd have them straight in. Personally I think Brown is in that class (though probably at the bottom of that class).

I’m not trying to be misleading. Maybe I could have been clearer but I think what I said was in line with the general thrust of the post. Those comments about falling interest were made in the context of the current issue.

Someone posts that the new rule will cause them to lose interest and that is supposedly countered by stating there were record numbers viewing in Round 1. Presumably if it does cause a loss of interest (which I doubt even as an opponent of a strict interpretation) it won’t happen immediately. In fact people may probably be watching more matches currently just to see what the rule is doing.

thanks. On the AFL site the most recent case under MRP is that of Preuss and 'latest' stuff from years ago, sigh. But Prof Google pointed me to the news section.

What if you keep your arms down but roll your eyes?

Is there any vision of the incident other than the couple of stills?

What I said was that Macca had made assertions about me that were wrong. Read the original posts rather than researching into old posts that are irrelevant to the unwarranted and wrong assumptions he made about me. As a mater of fact I often say to my spouse: "lucky we got away with one there". But since I neither post in the MFC game day thread, nor sit next to Macca, I found the assumptions he made in his post and wording a bit rude. Surely we can disagree on the issue of this thread without doing so. I don't see that I have ever been rude to him or categorised him in any way. If I have I will apologise. But to change the subject to where you have moved it to: I have never claimed I haven't posted negative things about umpiring decisions. Yes, I do post in non-MFC games threads about umpiring decisions. At least there I am not biased by team loyalties. And sometimes umpires do not appear to have read the rules when they get things blatantly wrong, though to be fair to them the rules are so badly written/interpreted that Solomon wouldn't be able to apply them without generating controversy. I don't think discussing/whinging/whatever about umpiring decision should be beyond the pale just because it sometimes gets emotional. To be clear, I think the umpires have an extremely difficult job. They deserve more respect than they get, and a lot more from the AFL. But I don't think the new 'respect' rules/interpretions are the solution to the lack of junior umpires. Nor do I think all reactions by players to decisions (or non-decisions which seem to be being ignored) amount to disrespect. Funnily enough I respect you and Macca even though I am expressing disagreement with you on this issue. And I fear that it may be impossible, especially given the incompetent way they have been introduced, for the 'respect' rules to be consistently applied, even by year's end, leading to more frustration by players and spectators. I hope a reasonable position will be arrived at. Time will tell.

You are getting a bit rude with people who disagree with you about the issue of this thread. And you are increasingly misinterpreting what people say or attributing to them views they don't have. How do you know that I am "certainly not one of those people"? You don't sit next to me when watching a match. I don't even read the match day thread once a match starts as a firm matter of policy, let alone post there, so you won't be able to find any such posts by me. I doubt you post there every time we get away with something, nor that I will get an apology from you.

In a game like ours, even of the AFL tidied up the rules, there will always be contentious umpiring decisions. So yapping about umpiring will always be part of the actual game (from a spectator point of view). Sure some will get over emotional or think there is some conspiracy against their team, but there will always be legitimate discussion. BTW, you aren't the only one who is noble enough to notice free kicks we shouldn't have got or things we got away with. But I'm sure you know enough about human nature to expect they wouldn't dominate discussion.

Still people here assuming disagreement/questioning is the cause of a lack of umpires when the AFL's own review found that even abuse was not the cause, let alone non-abusive arm lifting. Daisycutter is right - a line has to drawn but in a sensible and consistent place. Seems to me the AFL would prefer to meddle with the rules (in their usual incompetent way even if you supported the changes) rather than make umpiring well paid and solve the actual problems fo'und in their own review.

The inducement to stage is doubled by the thought that your getting a totally undeserved free will lead to an opponent lifting their arms (or rolling their eyes) and you'll get 50m as well.

So blatant staging is showing respect to umpires now.

Another person who is not happy: https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/stricter-respect-rules-putting-more-pressure-on-umpires-goldspink-20220419-p5aeir.html Goldspink is in “no doubt” that respect towards umpires has improved since his time in the job, and he does not classify a player putting his arms in the air as dissent or abuse. He also felt Hawthorn players were justified in expressing their disapproval of the dubious in-the-back free kick that Geelong forward Tom Hawkins received on Easter Monday. “That decision was terrible,” he said.

You can go ahead and mouth off whenever a 50m penalty is given within the 50m arc. Though I'm sure the AFL will wise up to that and allow the umps to award a second kick at goal from zero metres out.

Don’t look for offence where none was meant. I simply meant that you will continued to be annoyed by forums being full of criticisms of umpire decisions even if the players behave as you wish.

Even if the players kept their emotions totally bottled up, this forum and most footy discussions would be full of stuff about umpiring decisions. More so than other sports because of the vague ill defined rules and other obvious factors. So don’t think the new abuse ‘rule’ will save you.

I think it has been proven by the AFL review. I obviously disagree with you on this matter but I spend little time complaining about umpires and certainly do not label them as cheats. But I can still be critical though most of that is directed at the AFL not the individual umps.

That is laughable. You have repeatedly stated that abuse is the cause of lack of junior umpires. Yet when presented with the AFL Review showing abuse is not the main problem, you invoke Trump's polls. I can see why some would be embarrassed to admit to supporting Trump's policies, but why should ex-umpires be shy about complaiining about the abuse.

What else is it but 'breaking point' if you are constrained by penalities if you do something and you do it anyway . Rather than pick on words, address the fact that your stats were misleading.

Dubious use of stats. When you get a Hawkins dive, more than one player has their emotional constraints tested to breaking point. Given the way play is these days with lots of players near the ball, you are seriously underestimating the numbers.

Here is a report on the reasons for lack of umpires commissioned by the AFL in 2021. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-12/afl-umpire-shortage-in-community-australian-rules/100903628 Looks like abuse is the 8th (yes, eighth) biggest reason at 6% Work and study commitments (18 per cent) Health/injury/age related (14 per cent) Inadequate support/pay (13 per cent) Lack of enjoyment (10 per cent) Abuse, at 6 per cent, was eighth on the list and half of inadequate support and pay (which is the one thing the AFL could actually fix). Even if you argue the lack of enjoyment is entirely due to abuse (which is a dubious assumption) and should be added to the 6%, it is still not dominant. Read that article and you will see all sorts of reasons for the lack of umpires, including a big drop off due to Covid possiby causing the AFL to hit the panic button. So what is the point of all this over-reaction about abuse? The AFL finds it easier to fiddle with the rules than do anything that requires some hard work.