Dappa Dan

You mean as opposed to Collingwood supporters? I've met and spent time with people in big houses and I know who I prefer to spend time with. Then you don't see as much football or leave the house often enough to pass comment. When did you come to the conclusion we haven't accepted it? We've lost all but one game this year. We're not deluded into thinking we've won more. We KNOW we're finally going to get the picks required to bottom out properly. And here's some other chestnuts for YOU to accept. Your club only succeeds because it has money. Not because it has a stronger culture, or more right to the throne than any of the other 16. We know this better than most because we were there 40 years ago, and it took only a few years to lose our stranglehold. Here's another that you won't accept, that you should... Collingwood will win exactly the same amount of premierships in 2008 as Melbourne. So you can have the 4 points you won against a clearly undermanned and young side, with the enormous 21 point thrashing you gave us. Now. Once and for all, if you want us to get off your ground, get the F%#& off our website.

So much for the reports he was going to be back on the list soon. Beamer, Neitz, Robbo and maybe Rivers.

Daniel Bell = has made it. Don't look now but he's 24 odd and is going to rack up 100 games, with us or someone else. occo = The least knowledgeable football fan on demonland. For a guy who posts as often as he does, he knows SO little.

I was reading this thread and thinking to myself "why am I not getting angry and posting a snide slap at the pies? Then I realised... Malthouse's comments, and the crowd being oh-so-witty... It's just Collingwood crap, isn't it? Every week MM or Eddie or their filth supporters come out and do something silly, have to make a story out of nothing, get Collingwood in the papers SOMEHOW... It's all just part of the show. And it's like reading a comic. I completely dismiss everything I read as soon as it's clear the relevance is only to the pies. It's actually the reason, I reckon, people like to pick on the smaller clubs. We are NOT in dire straits, we are just smaller and poorer than Collingwood... we have grown every year (pretty much) in memberships, and in the last 10-20 years we have expanded, as the other clubs have, exponentially. Just because we haven't expanded AS MUCH as Colingwood, everyone seems to think we've gone backwards. MFC fans are in my experience, predominantly less likely to get sucked in by the garbage that goes on in the media. Essentially what I'm trying to say is that while I don't believe at ALL that MFC supporters are wealthier, we really are better educated (a recent poll showed the proof of this), and as a consequence have more varied interests... CFC supporters have one avenue of entertainment it seems, MFC supporters on the whole... to put it simply... have lives. This is both a good thing AND a bad thing...

12 FUTURE guns... But never mind detail has obviously never been a strong point with you. Garland, McLean, Morton, Jones, Bate, Davey, Wonnaemerri, Petterd, Bruce, Green, Rivers, Whelan... There's 12 that I rate. And I didn't include about 6 others that I think have solid future but that moaning, whinging nay-sayers like you hang [censored] on constantly for not being Buddy Franklin. And I NEVER said his record was fantastic. Stop putting words in my mouth. I'm here only to prove... aaaagain, that your argement is wholly without substance, forethought or proof... that CAC's recruiting, while not the best in the league, was FAR from a blight on the club. Oh? WHat basic concepts? Any proof? No rebuttal? No statistics? Oh ok... No fair enough... all those on demonland and abroad who claim CACs record was anything above "ok," you're all flat out wrong because Jarka says so. You're all on notice now. WHAT? WHO EVER SAID ANYTHING ABOUT CLINGING TO DANIHER?!!! I never said I wanted him to stay! Nor did I say that I wanted CAC to stay?!! I think they'd both run their course, you twit... ONCE AGAIN you've completely missed my point and decided to project whatever notion you wish and read whatever you feel like reading into my posts! Jesus. You are dense. This is what I've been arguing ALL ALONG!!! The ONLY thing I protest to is you coming on and being a soft as marshmellow demons supporter and sticking your boot into a guy who gave 10 years of service from SCRATCH and did what MANY, and I dare say, MOST would say was a good job!!!! Oh... and where I said you were wrong? You flat out were. You said we had had a LOT more top 6 picks than other sides. Under CAC, for the term of his service we'd had 3 (I had assumed Trav was outside his time at the club, thanks for the info H) Trav, Sylvia and Mclean. One is a B&F winner and was traded for a first round pick at age 27, the other two are still on the list... one is a future captain and while the other hasn't come on te y we'd all like it's still not too late for him o become a solid player... he's no Fiora... So Jarka you were WRONG! But hey, like I said, never mind the detail... You go ahead and make up your opinions and scapegoat more people who've done a DAMN sight more for MFC than you EVER will... For now, why do you bother posting? Just to expunge whatever angst you may be feeling aimlessly and without reason? I'm done trying to prove sane, logical points about footy to people who's minds have all the openness of a brick wall. For now I'll let our youth prove my point in the coming years, as they inevitably will...

That's a pisser... I was all excited at first... Not anymore though.

:D I reckon that could be it... Only "heart palpatations" suggests it's good news doesn't it?

They took Longmuir in 98... Then in 99 they had picks 2, 4 and 5... and took Hasleby, Pavlich and Leigh Brown... That's a good example... They got 1 god player from 4 there. Longmuir did nuthin', Hasleby is talented but has problems with his body, Leigh Brown is just going at the Roos and is in and out of the side. Fremantle's trading and recruiting record is the stuff of legend...

My god... his is the first time in a long time I've felt like Y_M and I are on the same page... It's terrifying..

Did CAC select Trav? Didn't he join our recruiters from 98 onwards? I've always understood Trav was the last year BEFORE CAC took over. Happy to be corrected by whoever has the info. Morton?!! You're expecting Morton to have an effect on CAC's last ten years?!! He never even played a game while CAC was at the club? And don't quote Jeff White at me. He was traded for, that's not the same as bottoming out. I'm talking about the difference between getting rid of quality picks and players you already have on your list versus getting a #1 pick without having to give anything up. There's a huge difference... But then I wouldn't expect you to answer any of my points they way they were constructed. This discussion has clearly sailed way over your head. And who cares anymore? Demonland is starting to get inundated with this crap lately... abuse of former administrators and players for our currently bad on-field performance. But you keep flying the flag Jarka... It's noble work you're doing.

Hmm. For some reason That duplicated my post... disregard the stuff in small type... Sorry about that.

Ok. Now I'm confused. YES I'm being serious. Our record speaks for itself? What does that mean? Look... I'm not HAPPY we haven't won a flag in the last decade, but we've not been as starved of joy as Freo and Richmond. Or the Blues, you could say. I never used the word success the way you do. As far as I'm concerned the blame does not go to CAC for our lack of a premiership... That is all. WHAT?!! Who? Sylvia and Mclean?!! That's two! Plus Morton of course who hasn't played during this period. Picks inside the top 6 for those sides you mentioned: Brisbane - 4, Port - 3, Sydney - 3, WC - 3... Only Geelong didn't have those picks, and they had all their FS selections as we all wel know... So right there, you're flat out wrong. But I agree... It's just an excuse... But isn't that what we're doing here? Just putting up excuses and reasons for our own judgements? You see the difference is when I come up with my thoughts it's not as a reaction to the obvious [censored] we've been seeing, it's after looking at all the facts without making a prior decision. Ooooh.... Ok... well then you MUST be right then. Look. You're missing my point. What I'm trying to say is that we've had some pretty good runs in those years. We ALL thought we were good enough to have a crack at it over 2005-2007... Are we forgetting this? We're not PERENNIALLY awful, like the Rabbitohs, the Blues were for 5 years, The Tiges for 20 years... We WERE good enough at that time, we had respect from other clubs. Yet you ignore this and trot out the "we haven't won finals" line... Stop telling me this as though I don't realise it. My point was never that it's ok to just limp into the finals... And if you're going to ake me repeat myself AGAIN, Im gonna just go to PMs. I haven't heard it. I've certainly never said it for anyone except the players taken from 2003 onwards... and unless I'm mistaken those players are still developing. Ok... Then we'll see. Maybe you're right... Maybe it'll be the same thing all over again... And MAYBE the fact that DB is playing on form, playing youth, and BOTTOMING OUT for three years means that we'll finally have a fresh start? Ward for one. I hated him, but he was mature and fast... two thing SORELY LACKING in our side at the moment. Byron was mature (though obviously was done). Brown another (though he retired). Anyway, my point was that Daniher held on to mature guys too long... Rigoni, Ellis, Brown, Ward's probably the big one for me. And honestly I reckon Neita and Holland could have moved on but were required as we weren't ready to lose the leadership. Godfrey was mature and did his job. Ferguson was 25+. Oh my God. Please, just READ what I've written. I KNOW WE'RE NO GOOD! I've been to almost every game this season. But what I've seen is that we're just too young!! Our midfield is barely into its twenties! And what we lacked over the last decade, we now have... and that's clearance players. 3 of them who are starting in the guts on Monday. Stop telling me to wake up to the fact the list is no good, I KNOW the list isn't complete. But I like our young players. It's the guys over 26 that are the problem. Green's done ok, but Yze, Bruce, Robbo, Wheatley... There's only 4 of them and they were never going to be able to control games, they never did. There is a reason why we are clearly the worst team in the competition. (and it's not because we delisted the mature players)

So what then... You're going to go through each individual player and argue whether they're good or not? You wrote off Dunn putting him in the same group as the Molans and Rogers... How are we supposed to take you seriously... He's still a kid AND IS STILL PLAYING!!

Did you read any of what I wrote? They're young... How many "gun" players were that good between the ages of 18-21? And how many of them had a good team around them that took on the oppositions' heavy hitters? We can't have a team full of Judds... particularly when we've had exactly ONE selection in the top 3. And I have the right to disagree. Particularly when the logic is flawed. Ok... So it's not the fact that we didn't make finals, it's that we didn't win finals. Had we won finals you'd be saying we didn't win enough prelims, and if we'd made GFs you'd be asking why we didn't win a flag... The point is we won our fair share. Mark Williams said himself we'd been up for a while, and that was without the cash that other clubs had to throw around. This is only a glass half full/half empty situation... one which I agree with actually. We were only good... we weren't great, which makes the direction we're taking now a good one. I disagree with that. He started in 1998, and got us going VERY well between 2002 and 2006 inclusive (Bar 2003). He had the list for 5 years before that, and there were relatively few players in the side that were picked up by the previous recruiter. Garbage. CAC's selections will be playing their best footy in 3-5 years... and probably longer should we keep a core of ten or so of them. So which one is it? You have to decide. You claim that we made finals with a list that CAC DIDN'T select. Then you say 10 years is long enough to judge a recruiter. THEN you say you can't judge him after his ten year period. So between 1998 and 2008 CAC didn't actually select anyone, and isn't responsible for ANY of what's going on... Is that right? And this is where we disagree again. What our list is devoid of is MATURITY!!!! If you took Hodge, Judd, Cox, Ablett, Bartel, Franklin and another 16 of the best players in the league... and put them all in a team when they were all 18-21, they would lose a LOT of games. More than they'd win. Footballers can't be expected to do anything at such a young age, and when they do it's SUCH a small percentage of the time, and generally it's because their mature team-mates afford them the freedom to get space to impress... The stars of today weren't the stars of five years ago. I'd say Richmond are worse. And who's to say WHY we've been a failure? I'd say we were mediocre at best over the last decade too. In fact, I think that's what I said in my first post. We've been a victim of our mediocrity, and given our woeful off-field situation over that time I think it's extraordinary Neitz and Daniher got us to ANY finals series... Look at the Tiges and Dockers. They HAVE money and couldn't do ANYTHING... You need to watch more footy. All the years BEFORE 2007 were Bell's worst. He's been under fire, and has been crap compared to last year, but he's played SOME good footy. Offered some dash, played hard, and is still pretty good by foot. You watch. Either he'll play another hundred with us, or another club. To say he's heading in a direction that he'll be delisted as you have, makes me struggle to respect any of your analysis... which ordinarily I do... We delisted his players!!!!! WE'RE BOTTOMING OUT AND PLAYING THE YOUTH!!!! Sorry about the capitals... but it's obvious I didn't make myself clear. We are building our core from scratch, WITHOUT good leadersa round to show them the ropes... all in an effort to have them mature at the same time. CACs players got us to 5 finals series in 7 years!!! Then DB came in and got rid of the dead wood... How hard is it to understand that we have only had a few picks in the top 6 in the draft... And at times we got rid of second rounders to top up, which limits his influence. Of those top 6 picks... I can only think of Sylvia, who will keep playing, and McLean who would be a dead-set star in any other team. Of COURSE we have the Molans and Rogers and Smiths... but SO DOES EVERYONE! And given our lack of KP players how could you blame him for going for the next available big man? Outside of those few top picks he's gotten some pretty impressive selections with his rookies and late picks... but then HE'S HAD TO! He hasn't done a Saints or Hawthorn and been afforded the opportunity of bottoming out. But we can only go so far when our ONLY selections are rookies and late picks... Given that, he did a remarkable job to keep us in the business end of the ladder during his time. I'll say it again... and answer this point if you can... WHEN the Marics, Grimes, Morton... Bate, Newton, Dunn, Bartram, Jones blah blah blah... reach 24-30, let's see how we do. Geelong have a team CHOCK FULL of maturity... They matured at the right time... CAC picked good players... It's just that we got rid of the mature guys, and Daniher stayed with the mature guys too long. My POINT is that it's the right way to go. Bottoming out while simultaneously playing the youth... Let it run its course, and when this team of young GOOD PLAYERS mature, we'll be singing CAC's praises. I think what you object to is my sugar-coating... I KNOW we're going badly... I can see that and I'm not ignoring the fact. But I'm also not dwelling on it. I watched us be mediocre for 10 years... And I'm now REALLY PLEASED that we're copping the pain now, becuase we'll have the joy in 3 years when we rise again.

Something bad happen? Is this to do with PG?

I don't know that that's the truth. Gone are the days when the coach was the be all end all of the club... But if you're looking for a simple answer, I think you touched on it. The list is not that bad, and not too old... they're just too young... When Carlton were at their lowest ebb a couple of years ago, I always wondered why they wandered around with a dumb grin on their faces. It was because they knew that with the recruiting that was going on, they were going to have the most envied list going around before too long. They were at the bottom rung of a ladder that they knew they were going to climb... We're not quite the same as that, but after the mediocrity of the last 8 years, I'm just glad we're not using quick-fixes (mostly anyway) and we're putting McLean, Jones and Moloney in the guts... playing Morton as much as we can, giving Garland and Warnock the big jobs... Every week there's a Bode, Buckley, Valenti having a crack... Now not all of them are going to impress. Some are going to frustrate... Par for the course is for them to come in and be beaten... Give them enough years and they'll turn a couple of good games a year into 5 or 6... then 10-12, then if we're lucky, when they're in their late twenties THEY'LL represent the core of a good side, and the new 21 year olds that come in to replace them will not have to suffer the tags and punishment the young players are receiving now. You think the Hawkins, Varcoes and the like would be having as much of a good time without the Ottens and Mooneys of this world? So in short, Bailey is to blame, but I'm sure he'll wear that, as its all a means to an end.

Wow... Hasn't demonland taken a dive in recent months?

I've never been so ashamed of demonland... When you're last on the ladder and the bulk of your team is south of 24, your recruiter will always look sus... Anyone who comes on here and bags CAC now is showing without a shadow of a doubt how little they know about footy and recruiting. The vast majority of players on the list haven't even been around long enough to have found a home on the ground, yet people mark them like they're veterans. I'm NOT making excuses, I'm just aware that you have to have your down times, especially when blooding youngsters. Garland, McLean, Jones, Bate, Davey, Green, Morton, Petterd, Rivers, Warnock, Wheatley, Whelan, Bartram, Wonna.... They're all players who are either guns, or are very good players given where they came in the draft. Notice only Green, Wheatley and Whelan are over 25? And then there's the players you people like to [censored] on to get your rocks off, like Frawley who has shown, at least to me, that he'll be a good player (He's in his SECOND YEAR!!!). Nudge, you say that Newton "might be ok." You realise he's been in the system 3 and a half years now? Yet you write off Frawley? bel is a good player. He'll never be a star, but how many draftees taken in the teens are? If you get 150-200 games out of him you've won, and he;s headed in that direction. We'll miss him on Monday. Martin could be good. Valenti has poise. I like Buckley and Grimes and Maric HAVEN'T EVEN PLAYED YET!!!! CAC's recruiting over the ten years was good enough to see us play in finals more often than not. When the CURRENT crop mature, we'll be able to mark him more accurately. Until then, you twits go ahead and keep hurling abuse at him. You're the same people who'll sing his praises when this list hit their mid-twenties... Learn something about football for a change, will you?

He'll probably be retained only because we have so much dead wood and retiring players... But I wonder, would he be retained on a list that looked like Hawthorns? Or Geelongs? And if that sounds ridiculous to you (who WOULD be retained) imagine perhaps whether he'd be retained under Leigh Matthews, or Mick Malthouse, or with any of the sides around the bottom half of the 8? Like Sydney... I would be surprised if he even got a game. I love him and think he still could crack it given his skill, but I'll always think it's on borrowed time. Can't ever see him playing like Franklin...

Clearly. I was wondering why there was any confusion. I found the report to be a window into DBs mind as I hadn't seen one yet this year. Maybe it was a bit screened, but between the lines I found there was plenty there to get stuck into. I used to take no notice of them too, but that was during NDs reign where they were crowd-pleasing mutterings that gave no insight.

That's exactly what I mean. There's a difference between getting done by 60-80 points and having it tick over into 100+ record breaking territory.

It makes PERFECT sense to have the fans have some dort of very REAL impact on the design.. The idea that a bunch of suits decide what it looks like is so stupid it defies reason... If the TARGET DEMOGRAPHIC is demons supporters, then it's just good market research to approach them. They could run an email to supporters, but even better than that go to demonland/ology and ASK AROUND! You'd have about 300 posters answer in the first hour, and best for all the supporters would feel engaged and part of the club... In fact it would be probably the biggest step these two sites have ever made towards the club besides perhaps sponsoring Clint Bartram. I just can't see a downside... And just on the Lyon thing... There's 3 compelling reasons why he may just put it on the footy show... - Footy Classified... He got on his soap-box about it on Monday. We know already he's got it in his sights. - The lack of media for the demons. It's not like he's had much at all to say about us this year, other than to answer critics week in week out about the off and on field garbage... - As a staunch supporter of his old club who enjoys flying the flag for us, having the opportunity to show there ARE die-hard supporters out there who care enough to create their own designs would go a long way to putting a face on us, even if only for a moment. By and large people would expect the demons supporters not to care, but if he puts up a small segment, he has the opportunity to show once and for all we do exist, and have something to say. It could be slipped in VERY easily after the panel give their tips. In the general discussion for the game, which this year has consisted of next to nothing, he could put it in, and it would only take a few seconds. You would also hope that a some point they have Robbo on to talk about his achilles... It could be discussed there instead.

Read the report. Compare to the vast majority of posters' opinions to what was written there and you notice how often people on this site are completely off the mark. Simple.

I just opened this page and saw Clints and Doggos and both are good... MUCH better than our current one... A mostly read gurnsey is NOT a bad idea... Why didn't the club consider this? What I don't get is how the club can run a questionairre about how we pay them that takes 25 minutes to finish, but won't give asking the punters for their opinion on our gurnsey a go... Why not email for suggestions to ALL the fans... Then sift through the few-hundred suggestions, as well as add their own, then put the best 5-20 suggestions on an email or letter every 2 years... Problem solved? They have some control, we have some control...