beelzebub

43 minutes ago, picket fence said:

 

 

Halleluiah! Also we wont get anywhere near it without Clarry, sorry to say

Oliver is irrelevant....he's made it that way... we've coped.

He's not an issue. 

Either folk understand that or don't. 

Strangely Footy is a team game. 

Its now all about how the controllers use the pawns.

to save derailing the "training' thread any more ....I shall revert to discussion here

@dpositive  just by way of interest  have you been to Caulfield and visited within...i.e  the "commons' area ?   It's vast....fn huge really ..you could lose two ovals there..    My own thoughts are this will and possibly should only be viewed as a training facility and not a playing location..as such.  But....  Cursory investigation shows that the water table there is around at LEAST 50-60 M.  So ??     You could feasibly DROP the playing surface of at least one oval and construct  viewing stands which would not impose upose the surrounding areas. Capacity would not need to be huge.

Much is made by yourself and others about Greenfield locales..    I stuggle to see much being accomodated at FB/PM...  Instigating facilites at Caulfield would not mean upending anyone and 'turfing' them out   ( couldnt help myself there..lol ).  I can't see how that is accomplished at PM...Someone would be miffed surely... There just ISNT the availability of acreage to develop currently.. At Fishermans ....Real Estate will be at a premium.. Again...To obtain TWO ovals that you if not quite use exclusively can 'hog' and limit attendances etc...   just can't see it.

Going to FB/PM is akin to driving down a congested court...  it's a pain in the proverbial getting there.  It may look central on a map...but access wise....it's the pits...     But it will be fine for LOCALS... and good luck to them if thats their choice of residence...they won't be travelling to use facilites.

10 hours ago, dpositive said:

Theres no doubting your passion WCW and well may it continue. Im with you.

It does make my thoughts on he difficulty of  a training ground inside a racing track at Caulfield verses a purpose built greenfield site at Port Melboune /Fishermans Bend more meaningful.

Id be happy for you to join our project group to develop a facility that meets all of our stakeholders, players,  admin, sponsors, supporters and of course a new and expanding demographic.

 

Explain...   difficulty of training ground inside Caulfield....

and go......

A lot of people seem.very confident about how good we are/ or might be... how this stands us in good stead for yet another tilt.

Such a good thing those 17 other teams are just going to stand by and do nothing to inhibit us.

If we dont develop a much better game, a much better forward system and efficiencies well we are pretty much dead in the water. A little mongrel might not go astray.

Imho we got pretty lucky in 2021... a very different year in so many ways and we not only persevered we dominated ( at times )

22 and 23 became a test to see if we could learn and build upon that success. Short answer is NO. So bad at 'learnings' we repeated our failure in 23.  

Everyone else seems to have learned more about us than we have ourselves.  When it counts ...others triumph.

Premiership windows are about when you're in the box seat, when if things go your way your able by your own efforts to make paramount of opportunity. 

We are not that kind of team currently. We seem to pitch wildly from effective to calamity.

I fear some are in for a rude awakening this season.... especially those wearing a red and blue jumper...  those in the box seem in another world.

Go Dees.

I wont be disappointed this year.... not in the sense that we'll  finish beneath where i suspect.

This is all on Simon.  Show us.....show us a different Melbourne....the same one wont even finish where we have.

For that window to remain open....something different needs to occur in order to push the pane up again....otherwise it's only going to be pain in 24

Lucky those other 17 are doing nothing  😉

I rate Ooze.... btw.  Interesting to watch that lot

I fear we have a tough start...  will be lucky to finish 7/8 .

Enjoy the footy.

Bring it Simon....   

23 minutes ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

It’s got absolutely nothing to do with its proximity to mine. I’ve done the six-hour round trip on public transport numerous times and would be happy to *continue doing so if it was a good ground FOR SPECTATORS, but it’s not. There’s seating for only 300 people, and that’s in the sole stand which is reserved for players’ families and friends. So effectively, zero seating. There’s no protection from the gale force winds. There’s not a nearby train station. There’s no shops and/or pubs, eateries nearby. And the biggest problem is that spectators can’t get close enough to watch training. Therefore, for spectators… it sucks.

*that said, I’ll continue to make the trek there for our W matches, especially since the girls hate playing there and would sooner play at Ikon. Having a decent crowd makes it less sh!ttty for them. 

I tend to agree... Its actually only a 45 min drive for me coming from the other direction...a good 60K...  Tbh....I'm never tempted to spend the petrol on it...   Not to peer through cyclone etc...thats just pox really  . Theyre' decent enough facilities for professional sports....  don't get too fooled anyone in thinking this is the Bees knees  or ideal.  You want that...look to what the Lions have etc...  and we too maybe one day.

It's ahhh....  fairly agricultural at Casey..

Training down.the house....or just burning it ??

Too early to tell ( clearly ) but we're not really off to a wonderful start.  

If we don't adapt we're doomed. Simple as that really... 

Window closing ?? Might be

Our list is only as good as the game plan allows them.  There's a few blokes out there not getting any younger...

I wish us luck, we'll need it....

Can't help but wonder 🤔🤔🤔

Merry Christmas....from myself and .....others.

Stay safe

Might see you next year..... tarrah 

42 minutes ago, bluey said:

The other clubs are Community clubs, and attract interest and funding from Government

Geelong, Bulldogs Tassie, Tigers etc represent local communities.

The exact direction that Peter Jackson was steering us toward.

MFC at Caulfield racetrack is a huge blunder, a devastating decision, made out of desperation to stand for something, stand for anything.

 

 

 

Strangely if you actually reread what you've indicated...and overlay a more reasoned context to Caulfield you might come to realise you've shot yourself in both feet.

You're entitled to your view.

It's not mine

19 minutes ago, rjay said:

Yes, I think this is right.

C/Wood would be on track to having the worst training facilities in the AFL if they don't make moves soon

Be a shame eh........

37 minutes ago, D Rev said:

Absolutely Beelzebub, that is one of my core points too.  We are the MELBOURNE Football Club - not the SE Suburbs football club.  I would love for the club (and some of the supporters) to have that view.  Does Collingwood think it's base is around the inner north?  No. It thinks it's base is in every toothless head on the planet.

I don't think anyone would argue that the MCG is our home, our heart and soul, and for all the illogical things that following a football team involves, it does include a heart and soul.

It would be brilliant if we could have our base at the MCG, including a social club and training facilities, but I'll take 2 out of 3.

This is one of the reasons I have been in favor of the option closer to the MCG for a training / social club venue.  It doesn't have to be Port Melbourne, I'd just like it to be closer to the 'G.

Go Dees.

 

I understand that view. That is unlikely. The requirements are 2 ovals ..An enclosed training space.. General training areas/equipment.   Sports Medical and Admin.  That requires a bit of space. To my knowledge nothing able to incorporate all of that as OUR facility exists in term if space near ...even remotely the G.

I think the club has taken the bigger holistic approach.  Again this about sports training/admin.. not us. Fine by me. More than enough options abound for a beer or a wine. 

You would have to think they would incorporate a retail facity and perhaps a cafe/bistro open to all...i mean why not..   but it needn't be big.

I think not only can Caulfield tick all those boxes bu there may be other positives we haven't even considered. 

This will be modelled on world class best practice... not archaic footy niceties.

I sense some are confusing 'central' with accessible..

Further ...and again.... central to what and/or whom ? 

Central in any Melbourne context is actually somewhat misleading.  The CBD was never Central...but was the centre of Commerce.

Melbourne's biggest shopping area ? Nowhere near FB/PM

Are we just the MCG footy team...  or the

MELBOURNE Football Club 

5 hours ago, D Rev said:

I am late to this thread, so apologies if Im treading on old ground.

I *just* saw the Port Melbourne announcement: https://www.portmelbournefc.com.au/city-of-port-phillip-announce-redevelopment-plans/?fbclid=IwAR3eDRse-qnQ6WimemOSWjL5El9qmww_n1eGVnvYqaw2303Nx6E-RgF7yV4

Got to say I'm really disappointed that we didn't pursue this further with Port Melbourne, if we did.  There is enough room there for a second ground and a training centre. 

I'm really confused as to how Caulfield Race track is a better fit than Port Melbourne.

The logistics are much, much better than Caulfield.  Where are we training at Caulfield - in the middle of the track?

Really disappointed and keen to learn more about this decision making process.

 

Yes.. the middle...maybe a  bit to the left..or such..

Have you any idea of the amount of area there ?? 

9 hours ago, Diamond_Jim said:

Have we missed out on a big opportunity at Port Melbourne....

A highly sought-after piece of industrial land in Port Melbourne will be turned into open space and sporting grounds after the local council won a bidding war, quashing the state government’s plan for a new primary school on the site.

City of Port Phillip Mayor Heather Consulo announced on Monday the $38.8 million purchase of a 1.54-hectare site adjoining North Port Oval – also known as ETU Stadium – at 509 Williamstown Road in Port Melbourne and the wider Fishermans Bend precinct. The land was the site of an Australia Post warehouse.

https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/school-v-sports-clubs-the-future-of-this-port-melbourne-site-decided-20231218-p5es6q.html

No..  not in my view..

The area will require some recreational facilities and that will definitely suit the locals....ppl who are already there  and those that come to live there.   They wont be fighting traffic etc... FB/PM is very ordinary travel wise to get to. Limited avenues.. you effectively have to go in and out. It's actually not central. 

12 hours ago, No. 31 said:

I know some are saying that a training facility is all about the players and coaching staff and I get the point and largely agree but it should also occasionally be a home of sorts for fans, when they have open training sessions, family days, maybe even Premiership celebrations.

I went to the Carlton open training session at Princes Park on Saturday. Several thousand people there, it felt like a community gathering, young kids looking at the trophies, memorabilia, old jumper exhibitions etc (that has been done really well at Princes Park). If done properly it should be more than just a place where players train and yes the location is important. It should be a place that helps the fans connect to the club and its history.

MFC should most definitely try to have a museum component, being in the rare position of being the founding club of the whole sport. If that can't attract some government funding I don't know what will.

Everything you suggest will be more than adequately catered to at Caulfield..imho.

Access, space , locale. 

I'm not getting the feeling many truly get the scope of what will be on offer nor the unique opportunity this should present.

I think for far too long many just hear the word MELBOURNE  and automatically allocate thoughts to the CBD/MCG region.   In my view that self restricting...and alienating.

Google "Greater Melbourne" ..  THAT'S  Melbourne... the whole bloody box and dice.  We are the ONLY team who by name can assume the 'whole' and this is how we should be looking at it...  Anyone from anywhere in Melbourne can identify as being a Melburnian.... and Caulfield is right at the heart.

Time to think BIG Picture

5 hours ago, Demonland said:

Every preseason I see Dees players running around Caulfield Park which is a stones throw from the Racecourse. Many of the players live in the surrounding suburbs. It would be massive for the players not to have to drive over an hour to get to training. 

THIS ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

20 hours ago, picket fence said:

NO! Casey is not the answer and once the AFL GET WISE and launch an aligned AFL reserves with only AFL teams playing, the VFL will be irrelevant and redundant! I still say a Port Melb or Fishermans bend location is better an a more central location than a bloody racetrack!

Central to what...and whom ?

The whole FB area is a developers sink hole.  Any greenfield design will of course need to incorporate public amenity and by such 'some' communal recreational facilities.  But it will be minimalist as that's real estate....read $$$ .You're  not going to get as much in this locale that you can preside over. FB and indeed PM do have proximity to 'town' but the last i heard ...'town' is on the nose with sqM vacancy very high .

Again,  I have to suggest a Football Club Training Centre and Admin Facility is nothing about you or me and ONLY  about what it does for the club, not the supporters.  

Access to FB/PM is relatively limited. A development at Caulfield does not take away amenity from anyone, it creates it. Your suggestions at FB and PM either  restrict public amenity or take from it. 

Im pretty confident if you were to ask the club..i.e the staff and players which they would prefer as a WORKPLACE ....  Caulfield would win by its own home straight.

7 minutes ago, Six6Six said:

Old 6 packed his trusty camera and headed down the highway to Casey.

 

Enjoy ==>  https://www.smugmug.com/gallery/n-Gdk9w2/i-7gzWqzP/A

 

 

Thankyou...  brilliant stuff..

Rivers 😳😳😳 beast mode

Somethings bode well...

But hey ..it's  Dec

Cheers All 🎄🎅🥂

Oh dear.....fellow Dlanders , I can't  help that some have this new Training Ground all wrong.

Is it..

A) about club facilities, player development,  bringing everything home ( well to A home )  i.e it's a Football/Admin kinda thing.

Or

B) about the supporter..about  deigning to postcode demographics ...about a 'choice' bar to socialise... 

Here's the mail....it's  A ...all about A ... B...yeah nahhh..  not even a thing ..remotely.

This IS all about Training...and i dont mean...' next train arriving on platform 2 is... ' 

Wake up folks...its about THEM... not you..      You dont play...you dont do the books... 

But hey....I'm sure you'd be ok to watch and grab a snag.

For comparison look at what Premier League clubs do... what NFL clubs do... etc etc... Its about player facilities.

2 hours ago, daisycutter said:

the club have the addresses of all club members

it would be interesting seeing a geographical  heat map of this data

i wonder if the club already has

Not sure they could organise the proverbial  p***  up Daisy  let alone clever stuff.  They still struggle with inner sanctum games it seems.

Caulfield should have been signed and sealed by now imho if it were happening.

Another committee getting sfa done.

14 minutes ago, Demonland said:

 

Ooooohhhhh   gooooodyyy...  he can kick !!!   Handy.. We'll see.  

11 minutes ago, Redleg said:

I believe that's wrong.

Contracts are not guarantees of list spots, they are guarantees of payment.

We could delist both but would have to pay them out.

Correct

56 minutes ago, Macca said:

The coach is doing alright.  He can't kick the goals himself

Our way of playing (brand) is based on defence and contested ball.  Often not pretty but I'll take our team and the way we play over anthing we witnessed from '07 to '15.  Ugly and we lost a lot

'65 to '86 wasn't all that flash either, IRW

Cant kickem

...might organise the front game a tad better.

His approach is flawed. He found his moment in the sun.... the sun has moved on...  us....not so much.

Much work to be done.

Oh... good luck Bun...thanks for visiting.  Cheers.

It no longer matters.

Lots that might..

But....

We all know little is as it seems.

An EGO driven industy.....meh

On 9/29/2023 at 9:32 AM, dpositive said:

Good point. If you look at the FB development proposals, access will be improved to accommodate the new population. It is near the existing west gate freeway. But appreciate its all very much speculative and would need to be emphasised in any proposal for an entertainment/sports complex

FB will improve.. but most an improvement only relevant to those living there.  If you look at some of the relatively nearby higher density developments in PM..and if you've ever had to access that area...it's  rubbish  Congested.. narrower streets etc. Any new developments will NOT be car friendly ( as that is THE way now .

I can see a theoretical attraction...but it wouldn't pan out. Those lovely Architectural Presentations are no more than Cartoons really..  utopian pipedreams as opposed dreary reality.

As its pretty safe to assume hardly an Melbourne player does , or would be living there then somewhere more accessible and attractive  might better serve.

It's an irrelevance where any supporters live.  It is about what( and where ) best serves the MFC.

I could see FB sorta flourishing for its new population.  It will suit some. Not anyone who appreciates a modicum of space though.

Might be a while too. 

17 minutes ago, Dee-monic said:

I may be in the minority here but I think Sydney outmanoeuvred us in the Grundy deal. I expect he will show us next season that he is still an elite ruckman worth far more than they gave in return.

 

The only people who out manoeuvred us were .....ourselves  😉

All our own doing and ineptness.