beelzebub

We all have to keep in mind we may not ultimately be driving this one. Its certainly going to be a busy and interstig trade period this year

Again we are at a place where yo need to keep a sound mind and not panic. Green may stay, he may not. We may have the say, we may not. Who knows at present. The element i find a tad humorous is that every year there is someone who steps up a bit..and suddenly they are untouchable or untradable. In the end NO ONE really is either. You make the best fist of whatever hand you have or can re trade for. Brads been pretty solid for us this year, thats good..if he's with us next year Id expect even better. If the club cannont afford him..or make agreement in whatever shape or form then you simply have to take away whatever value is on offer from the highest camp and trade. Theres no point sookin gover it or gettin petulant..what is..IS. We arent exactly a team of tier ones are we. Green is good..but probably not as good to the open market as we value him. This effect is same all around. Keep in mind..hes a rare semi shining glimmer in an otherwise less than illustrious bottom side ( at present ) Point being..dont fall into the trap of making him out to be anymore than he is. If Trapper was worth 14 last year..then Green ought to be worth normally a high first rounder. However this is not a normal year. First round picks will be a premium. I would think a low 2nd round pick may be a reality..or he may participate in a 3 party trade. Like many Id rather keep Brad..I think he has the right stuff for the Dees..but if he's to go ..so be it..lets just do it well..for us !!

NO !! ..I mean.. how could anyone link West Coast and anything less than above board !!!

probably the accidental result of trying to evade one demon.. runs into another..!!

I will try to put a persepctive on this that ought answer this , as I see it. Personally I think affiliations between AFL and VFL clubs are at best a marraige of convenience..at worst.. an ugly convergence of folk who might have met in a bar with too many beers clouding the logic. This is not a sinister or cynical view..just very pragmatic. They ( affiliations ) are invariably at crossed purposes. AFL teams are trying to develop players and/or get some run time in their players to bring them up to scratch to AFL level to play AFL..in positions that suit the AFL team. This happens at a very perfunctory level at best. It always willdo as the VFL teams are trying to win..not play baby sitters. The VFL teams will, and rightly so pick teams to suit their cause not that of their affiliate partner. Team AFL may want Johnny to play 2-3 quarters to get soe run in his knee/leg/whatever..to get a kick or two near goals to get his 'spirit" up..to find his mojo etc. .Tean VFL sees this as a liability as it fights its nemesis for a place in finals and so either plays him safe of put his in their ressies etc. Yes a very simplistic example..but short of listing every possible variation it serves to show that ultimately the requirements of teh AFL aren't that well served. The logistics of tehaffiliations are inherently flawed. We only have them as its CHEAPER, purely and simply.. Teams with a bit more dosh dont !! Witness Geelong and Collingwood. Their VFL teams exist solely as a rung on the ladder to their ultimate purpose ..AFL. So the answer to the question..how should they run is essentially impossible to answer ..they are at corssed purposes. The VFL team is bound to come out of it better as it suddenly has recourse to a bunch of players it would never have the resources normally to entertain. Sandy did this very well and managed to win Premierships. We did nada apart from some token fial appearances..never in danger of damaging the history books or occupying the engravers time )..again I say they easily won out of this relationship. There is the distinct possibility that a Melbourne - Casey setup may offer dividends but ultimately they will be more off field per se than on it. i.e The development of a supporter base as well as some beneficial infrastructure. Its still gong to be a marraige of convenience...just possibly this time without the beer goggles !! Ive no grievance with Sandy.. Ive enjoyed watching them as i did many many years ago when I lived in the area and it was a short hop skip and jump to TBO. I must confess like many Ive probably enjoyed some vicarious success via them as we certainly had none. Good lucky Zebbies. ...Better luck Scorps !!!

Aye..theres the rub !!..For me this is the crux of the matter..and my hesitation to want him going forward. Fair enough..we differ

What were doing at present is all but irrelevant really.Its going to be the makeup of the team next year..and more importantly the year after. So do we put match time into someone who wont be there then..or continue to develop somone else. Do you see Wheels being in the 22 in 2-3 years time ?

Better !! yesterday hardly counts though surely..you need forward pressure to measure a back !! and probably he's tarred with the team brush re Geelong. He probably got to see much more of it at his end after all Lets see how he gets through the next preseason and fronts the NAB. I am most happy to eat words...but see nothing but specks on a plate to date !!

Im going to go out on a limb here. . I think some..( empahasis SOME ) of our kicking probs eminate from things not quite going to plan on the pitch. The team, like all , practice drills and plays . Under non-match conditions these work.. Players get to where they are supposed to be.. and the kick, possession, hnadpass, possessionetc all works. As you would expect and hope at practice. Under 'real' conditions it isnt the case. We arent that good yet. A lot of hesitancy comes from these plays not working because players are covered or simply out of position. Im sure a lot of the Wheatley passes are vicitms of this. he seems to be kicking to a certain position..expecting someone to be there.. and they arent..well not in time. So result is it all looks hamfisted. Good teams make it look sublime.. I mean how many times in the past did the Lions just kick to a seemingly vacant clump of grass only to have Lynch mark it etc.. If you cant give off to your first option you are caugth looking a bit flat. This happens to us time and time again. .Arguably Ive noticed an improvement ove the year . This is why we looked so pathetically inept early in year.. especially on back line as handpass drills just didnt morph into real life. This brings us back to kicking. This up and under [censored] has to be knocked on head. It has its place occasionally in a game.. as some hang time can bring a player into the picture..but in the main it simply creates hospital situations and questions just how much your team mate really likes you !! lol Kicking lower and more direct ought to make for more siutations where the intended has the ball before him.. and not in a contested play.

Can I recommend OPSM..has done wonders for my enjoyment !!

Yep..he could use a littel coaching of fhis foot. Still he's not alone.. far too many players are kicking it way way too high. . This is putting some recipients under the pump without need. Players need to be shown how to kick the ball harder and lower . Of course at other end some players will need to be taught how to mark !!! lol :rolloeyes:

Deanox..its a bit hard to see it at distance..but the one thing that TBO allowed was some up and close viewing of a player. Maric IS crafty. He has almost a little trademark move of his.. He likes to tap it to his own advantage when he knows he cant get a good clean grab first time out..Its quite subtle at times.. but its dleiberate..and effective. Not sure if others have noted this. He's defintiely one to watch this guy. Hes clever at using what he has against larger opponnents. Still want to see him closer to goal.. still.. patience...patience !! lol

I must out myself as a bit of a Maric fan...that is to say..I think this kid has it in spades..He's a genuine find who will excite in time even more than Aussie does at present. Maric is quite the clever player. Those that have seen him toil away for the Zebbies will have seen this guy grow by the week. Anothr good preseason and some gym work will see him ok. I can only assume the powers that be want him to do his apprenticeship around the ground as Im looking forward to him being given licence up the sharp end. This is his natural environment but I accept all things in time I'll actually say that Hi Ho Col actually had a reasonable dip today. If he can get his head right..who knows !! Buckley needs to learn theres a time and a place for all things and stop being a one trick pony..he's far too predicatable Must be a bout of rubber virus going around the club given the predisposition of certain players to fluff marks ( easy ones ) Still would've been hard to soar like an Eagle today when surrounded by Turkeys !!

Whilst its rather irrelvant what other teams were are doing..in the search for the answer as to whehter the alliance was a success for both parties.. It may have escaped your notice then that the Dogs have gone places..and we are languishing on the bottom of the ladder !! There IS only ULTIMATE Success in this game ..at this level. If you persist in having none then you face the uncertain future we do.. Yes we've done marvellously well out of TBO

That was an academy award performance by the Weagless.. an abomination of the game all but !! I'll not take too much away from the Dees as they genuinely tried..and thats the scarey thing..as they were the only team who were. Did it escape peopel the 'silly ' mistakes teh senior Eagles were making.. I mean.. who gives a way a basic free kick bu not steppig back..allowing Bruce to make ammends ..I ask you !! That swa gmaesmanship ..purely and utterly. West Coast all but left a paddock open for us half the day. Were there ANY second efforts by them?? How many times did they kick it backwards to an effective and needless contest Yes we won.. but dont get too excited folks.. I have no doubt Worsfold for all his protests would have instructed his team to do what they need to do today.. the older and wiser of the team would have known exactly what that meant !!

Rhino.in case it may hav escaped your attention over the years..I am also one of Oozes greatest critics. However he HAS listed wel lfor most of the year as a mamber of teh Zebs..and as thats his only means of impressing..then by comparison to tohers on the lists then he ought wel lhave ben considered for games..indeed was named emergency onmore than one occasion. The point I made..which you seemed to have missed.. is that Dean DOES have his agendas..and its NOT about form solely..So who knows who might front next week.

there are essentially only four outcomes to a partnership win win..both teams do exceptionally well lose lose.. both teams do execeptionally poorly win lose...one team prospers..the other languishes lose win...ditto.....ditto A reasonably precis of our time with Sandy is they did very well..we did very poor to average i.e WIN ( them ) LOSE ( US ) therefore..they did much better out of it...Its not really that hard !!!

Oh..please explain it then.. what is the huge gains we have had ?? Where have WE come off better than the partner in all this ?? In case it has escaped you PREMIERSHIPS ARE what this game is about.. Thats the prize of success in this game..or are you deluded to think there are others ?? Possibly thats what been wrong with this club..they've taken their eyes off of the real game !!

Even I can see that if everything was purely on form then Adem would have had a gig by now. Dean can say what he likes about it all being on 'form' but he has his agendas..and rightly so..thats what a coach is about surely !!. So simply saying that White is a monty may not necessarily carry weight. I'll wait for the various spins given by the club leading up to the next round

Thats exactly what the thread is aimed at. Poor ol Mickey Mouse got all upset at the attention that Didak and Shaw received from the press. Apparently we are all supposed to forget the circumstances under which Collingwood muffed it all. That this is as much a compounding of circumstances that eminate once you decide NOT to reprimand and deal with trangressions properly in the first place..and Im talking last season and before. The filth has often gone its own way thumbing its nose at methods employed by anyone else in anything else and now such attitudes come home to roost. Mickey Mouse has a well tuned Collingwood outlook...totally one eyed and disproportionate. They want al the crowds..they want all the adulation..they want all the press..but Mickey..if you do bad things..bad press results !! ...Oh Mickey, you're so blind, you're so blind you'll blow your mind, hey Mickey, hey Mickey !!

aww shucks Hannabal.. I thought we were just sticking to Col's fitness ...now you gone and opened up the can labeled " rest of shortcomings " One way or another Sylvias greatest problems occur between his ears, his fitness is just the start of it all. His actions are the finish. Do we really aspire to having only handy at best players ?

I fully appreciate that a VFL exists for its own sake..why wouldnt they !! Thats not the point here. Given that they ( VFL clubs ) do indeed run primarily to THEIR agendas it will of course follow that the AFL club will come in second. NO ?? In all honesty unless you have your own , as Collingwood and Geelong do , then you have not the ideal control over the development and game time of your "shared" players. I accept that. I simply dont sugar coat it as anything else and yet there is no other real gauge of success in football is there !! Its THE prize... none other matters

Now..lets count the Sandringham Premierships in recent times say since Melbs allignment 2000 2004 2005 2006 now..Melbournes............ Sandringham had access to our talent..playing them where it suited them...They won on this deal by streets !!

Im sorry Oracle.. its a very well thought out piece as usual..but I just cant take games like Saturdays seriously. I think having teeth pulled would be more entertaining...and less painful.

West Coast 1-27 33 defeated by Melbourne 1-28 34 !! Captivating stuff <_<