PJ_12345
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Everything posted by PJ_12345
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Yep you're right! Confused myself when I was talking about Neeld training drafts (full 2012 preseason - been there since sept. 2011), didnt coach 2011 season. Thanks agrydee
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Football is a long-term strategy game. Every club goes through cycles. We are at the bottom. This will take a while and there is no quick fix or quick results. With Bailey we had an aging list, not alot of tallent coming through and I was struggling to see any type of strategy. At least with Neeld he has got rid of the dead weight, getting some young tallent through, new leadership team, new captains and drafted some experienced, premership winning players What isnt sustainable is going through coaches ever second year. Long-term results > short-term results
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As I pointed out last night Moloney is averaging the same amount of posessions with Brisbane as he did with us in 2009, 2010, 2011. He played poor football last year due to his own motives, ego being bruized from being dropped from the leadership team and he basically gave up. Using Moloney's performance last year and this year is an incredibly bias example. You're comparing him from a year he didnt care how he played to a year where he does - not a comparison of Neeld's ability to utilize his skill sets. This is shown in that he is averaging this year the same amount of disposals in 2009, 2010, 2011 Second, you are incorrect on your statement that Neeld hasn't been able to develop our young draftees. Magner, Couch, Trelich, Evans, Nicholson - and all are playing great football (particulary Evans). Neeld has only been coach since sept. 2011 and he has produced better young players than Bailey. Players like Bennell, Morton, Martin - all drafted pre-Neeld and not even Bailey could get the best out of them, they were duds. Smoke and mirrors because you cant say "I dont like Neeld because we arent winning games". In turn sacrificing a long term strategy over short term results Edit: Mistake pointed out by angrydee in regards to me saying when Neeld coached
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Youre right. Performance is connected with attendance, memebership and sponsorship. When Geelong won their last flag the following year saw a 20% jump in memership. They shouldnt worry about wiping out their debt asap. They should have a 3 year plan, that way the footy department still gets an increase ect. I mean whats the worse that could happen? SNAFL will just give them more money! and they have no risk of the AFL trying to move them because they are only licensed to them.
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Good point, I overlooked their average attendance. Youre right, their memebrship growth will destroy ours this year. We are looking at negative growth and since 2008 theirs has been consistantly positive. I was going to include this years figures but there was too much of a difference between updated membership numbers. Roughly we are at 30,500 and they are at 39,000 So negative for us and positive for them so far It will be interesting to see their costs after this season though - if the SNAFL keep their grant at the same as last year - then I think, despite great membership growth and crowd attendance, they will still be in the red. Maybe not by too much but you have to add the -$2m from last year.
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Seriously WYL, you're the fourth post in to a thread about Jack Watts... Getting boring. There are whole threads about this coming round where you can post your predictions and opinions.
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Playing wise Port is doing very well. I had a look through their fiancial report for 2012 to try and understand from that side where this improvement might have come from and found some interesting stuff: From 2008 to 2012 Port increased their memebership by 3,442 (we have increased ours by 5,726) Last year they had an opperating loss after grants of -$2,117,071 compared to 2011's operating profit after grants of $887,971. The huge opperating loss can be attributed to that the SNAFL grants they recieve has gone from $4.05m in 2011 to $2m in 2012. Port's football expenditure increased from 2011 to 2012 by $1,747,649. Ours increased quite a bit too, and we still spent about $500,000 more then them last year. Good on them. They have a good membership base (still higher than ours) and increased their football expenditure significantly. However their membership growth is alot slower than ours, and if the SNAFL continue with this type of reduced grants this year they will be in the red around $4million so could be in quite a bit of financial trouble...
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And I probably went a bit overboard with the stats but good convo and interesting read.
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Please also remember your original statement was a little bit more substantiated than just a perception: "so many were picked up because it's a known fact in AFL circles that most MFC players don't reach their potential"
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Please do. Because I'm struggling to find this perception when the actual amount of people drafted is incredibly small (see the 15 out of 104 over 12 years).
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You're seriously clutching at straws. Jamar has been playing poor footy before Neeld was coach and, no-offence to him, only got All Australian because of his 1 good year Frawley played well last year and has been overloaded this year and under the circumstances played well Moloney played well against us. No denying that. BIT so far this year Moloney has averaged the same amount of disposals as he did with us in 2009, 2010, 2011. He is playing well compared to last year because he gave it nothing. You're using an incredibly bias example. You cant really call it improving when he had the same amount of average disposals and last year he basically walked away from the club. His poor playing was to do with his own ego and being dropped from the leadership team. Your point was: "it's the fact the so many were picked up because it's a known fact in AFL circles that most MFC players don't reach their potential and are worth a shot in a different culture and coaching environment." As I have shown from 2001 to 2012 only 15 players out of 104 that were drafted have been picked up from other clubs - not alot of players have been picked up. The only player to properly improve under another club due to different culture and coaching environment is Brock McLean, and he left in 2009
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We got the full potential out of mature age players McLean, Rivers, Miller, Maloney, McDonald, Petterd. If you're still on the list by the time you're 26 for any club you can assume that they have got the most potential out of you. Fine then, let me go back further to the last draft year where the person is still on the current list: 2012: 0/10 2011: 0/7 2010: 0/12 2009: 2/9 2008: 1/10 2007: 4/10 2006: 1/5 2005: 1/8 2004: 1/5 2003: 2/8 2002: 1/12 (When Rivers was drafted) 2001: 2/8 (Jamar: last draftee still on the list) So that means since 2001 to 2012 only 15 out of 104 players we drafted went to other clubs. Apparently not as popular when it comes to getting the full potential out of players as you think!
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Rubbish. For example, the only players who have been drafted between 2008 to 2012 that have taken by other clubs has been: Tom Scully (GWS) Jordan Gysberts (North Melbourne) Jamie Bennell (West Coast) ... so thats 3 out of 48 Other drafted players who werent picked up by us in 2008 to 2012, such as Moloney, Rivers and Miller we got them fully developed and they have reached their full potential.
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In regards to CURRENT training facilities - due to the new facilities at Casey, which I think was delivered in 2009 (go check i out its awesome), and AAMI Parks (the same one used by the best team in the NRL: the Storm) in 2011 - technically we have the newest and best quality facilities in the AFL... -
That awkward moment when youre the only person who voted that Melbourne will beat Carlton... A guys got to dream!
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As some others have mentioned I might be a bit too harsh. There are some differences between our situation and theirs so there is hope!
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RR, all I said was that it was Cameron Schwab's duty to oversee the day to day activities of the club, and ridiculous/unrealistic to expect the board to know the activities of the sports scientist. That is not their role, or responsibilities... thats why we have a CEO. As I mentioned, they are accountable for CS - but again - it is unrealistic to expect the board to know the activities of the sports scientist. That was my point. I have no idea why you're raising up why CS was axed, his extended contract, who Bates reported to (CS), what PJ will do, Trengrove, Craig, Misson ect. or any other stuff...
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Thats what I'm really really hoping for. I've checked it out and yep you can buy it over the counter - except everwhere I've tried they are out of stock. Mind you is the amount of AOD9604 is incredibly miniscule and all it will basically do is reduce my cellulite...
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I dont understand confidence issues in footy. I think the club should hire two "Confidence and Moral officers/runners" - one to play the good cop and the other to be the bad/passive aggressive cop. Would be better if we could find someone with split personalities so save costs and raise the confusion factor. Also it should be compulsory for the good cop to sound like your mother, and the bad cop to have at least one insulting pun or metaphor. Classic example could be to get Watts to print harder: "(Bad cop) Jack you lanky beanstalk, (good cop) you were the quickest in the 20 meter sprint when you were drafted, (bad cop) and now look at you, Pickett ate all the pies and he could run faster than this - pick it up princess!" Confidence boost - check Reference to one of the greatest and funniest MFC players to watch, Byron Pickett - check More examples by good old Patches O'Houlighan:
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There is some clear evidence re the Davey and Misfud allegations - Davey has said multiple times that it just did not happened. Hence the apology the AFL gave to him and Neeld. This was more an issue of what WJ would describe as 'faceless men' leaking incorrect information. As Caroline Wilson said "I can categorically deny Jason Misfud would have made this up", she provided this in the context that someone was leaking unsubstantiated rumors to him. CW didnt run or believe the racist claims because when she was, believe it or not, checking her facts Davey told her on the phone and said it was completely incorrect - so I think its a bit wrong to include that in your assesment of Neeld. Re the list: Green retired We never should have recruited Martin (already recruited Gawn) Petterd was constanly injured and we needed the spot Bate wasnt good enough ect. That is more about the quality of the players and forming a list. Alot of them didnt improve under DB either might I add. The biggest issue with Neeld's strategy, as you noted, was his approach to the leadership group and senior players. Im a big fan of him, and his strategy, but he mucked this part up. A new leadership group fitted in with the clubs, new coach, new coaching staff, new captains, new list, new facilities but I think in this instance it was a huge oversight and caused a significant resistance to the strategy and impacted performance.
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Unfortunately yes. It was Bates' job to check all of this. He mucked up and now Trengrove is going to wear it. Feel for Jack, this stuff can be bought over the counter, and you would think your club doctor would know if its banned or not - but at the end of the day he knows he bares the risk, and he should have double checked. Really tough, but with Essendon and Melbourne its a double edged sword...
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Remember the role and responsibilities of certain people/parties in organisations. The person who is responsible for player welfare, Bates and day-to-day activities of the club was Cameron Schwab. We learnt from The Age that upon hearing on the connection between Bates and Dank the board administered an immediate investigation and was 100% transperent with the AFL (Gill) contrary to AD's comments. Bates lied to Thurin who was conducting the investigation and they found out the current details and politely stood him down for the moment. Considering their transperency (which many people originally doubted) with the AFL, their role and responsibilities in the organisation, the quickness of the investigation and the circumstances of the information Bates provided... they have done a good job. Typing this now I know I'll get the casual reply "the buck has to stop somewhere" - but in this case it stopped at Cameron Schwab. It was Schwab's responsibility. He failed and is already gone. I'll accept the fact that they appointed CS, and should be accountable for that - but to presume that the board should have knowledge of day to day activities such as our sport scientist is crap. A line has to be drawn somewhere. The more and more I read about the expectations people have on the coaching staff and board in particular really emphasises the question in my head: "why would anyone want to deal with this club"... I just hope other people who are in the capacity of actually being in these roles if they become available dont start thinking the same question.
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Also there is alot of hype over this supposed letter Dank showed Essendon re AOD9604... Still doesnt explain: Thymosin (some approved types, however the Cronulla Sharks took the banned type when Dank was there) Cerebrolysin (not yet approved in Australia meaning its a banned substance) Melanotan (not yet approved in Australia meaning its a banned substance) And the other concoctions such as bark/pigs brain/mothers cow milk (some of which is yet to be trialed on humans) I wish a reporter will do their job and ask WADA/ASADA about the implications of these other drugs that are banned (Thymosin, Cerebrolysin, Melanotan) and gunnie pig substances... instead like usual they are getting distracted by smoke and mirrors Either way you look at it Essendon is guilty. Now just a matter of how many players took a banned substance and what are the penalties. The AFL came down hard on us, even when we were found not guilty of tanking, to discourage it... I hope they will follow the same practice and discourage banned substances. 2 years + more than two found guilty then club penalties
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It proves that ignorance isnt a defence when it comes to drugs in sport. Essendon has 'ignorance' written all over it
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Thats what happened with Shane Warne - 2 year ban
