Skuit

Just quoting and bolding for posterity sake's SWYL. Don't mind me.

I'm in.

I feel like this thread has legs akin to the $cully club. Make it happen.

I agree that physical fatigue outside of Port and Freo doesn't seem to be a problem in our losses - but the mental fatigue would be building. It's easy to see why Geelong would have handled this season better than most though and unfortunately it comes back to maturity and seasoned bodies. They have 12 blokes on their list with 150+ games (and six with 200+). Ditto West Coast. Port have 11 and five and Richmond have ten and five. We have six - including Jones (our only 200+ player), TMac, Jetta and Melksham. The Lions are outliers with six (and three) but have played eleven of their matches in QLD.

Much appreciate all the work you do in maintaining this forum @Demonland so definitely no complaints. But one tiny point. The notifications alerts now include reactions from other posters rather than just quotes. Understand that it's fairly standard practice but these alerts are designed to drive addictive behaviour. Haven't watched The Social Dilemma yet but reading up on the subject always makes me feel highly uneasy. Anyway, maybe it's something minor to consider from an ethical perspective if you have the ability to alter. I also respect that you have a business to run in a highly competitive advertising environment. (Please note - removing the reaction alert is just my personal navigational preference - other posters may love it).

Things are not always or even rarely ever one thing. We're not mature or good enough yet to be consistently at the top. Our travel burden and rotten luck this year has compounded those issues. For the AFL fixer brigade though - I agree that we've been poorly treated in some respects. But much of what has transpired is due to seriously bad fortune and scheduling on the fly. In an alternative universe we could have spent the majority of the season in Manly. We drew the Cairns straw because the AFL ran out of other options and had to please QLD.

Another point - and an ironic reversal of 2019: Is missing the finals last year detrimental to teams this year? It's been a bloody long season (and it seems we put in a massive pre-season too) and those teams which started their pre-seasons later are probably better placed to cope with mental fatigue right now. Small advantages make a difference in this competition.

Can someone do a table on the number of beds each teams' players have slept in during the course of the season and the average number of consecutive nights slept in each bed? It's maybe tongue-in-cheek but I do think this would provide the most indicative metric of our travel burden as opposed to simply the physical boarding of flights. A two hour flight in of itself shouldn't take too much of a toll. Pennant hit the key word earlier in 'routine'. It would be one of the most consistent points made by champions across all sports. All teams have been disrupted this year but our schedule has more closely resembled a band on tour (or travelling circus for the cynics). Consecutive games in Adelaide and Cairns sound great, but it feels like we've been on the road for the entirety of the season. Compare for instance the feeling of having stayed for just four weeks alone at a single base, even with a fly-in fly-out interstate trip or two? I hadn't heard it before but I'm staggered to learn we've also been over-nighting on the Gold Coast before our Metricon games. I get that this has all come about due in part to circumstance and our own requirements - but it's a valid lens by which to assess the season.

Writing degree. And I'm all for starting sentences with an 'And'. Go nuts. Fill your boots. Etc.

i'm going to start a thread. See you one day soon Old Dee.

Haha. I'm not sure if that is a public rejection of my overtures or not. ?

I agree with a lot of this post - except for the things that none of us will ever know. Who drove who to excel is an intricate play within a individual player themselves let alone understanding that through media and gossip. Yup. We need more success in our coaching group to become a force.

Hey Old Dee. I would like to share a whisky with you. What do you say? I'm a wing-clipped nomad and you're stuck in Victoria as far as I can tell. We can document the whisky-sharing struggles on Demonland. I promise I will bring good cheer (there are few people on here who can probably vouch for me as not being completely insane).

I appreciate this post. But saying that Trac just took it upon himself I think is a bit disingenuous. It's obviously a two-way street. We just found out yesterday that Steven May credits Goodwin and then Burgo as the two major influences as to turning his career and form around, due to some serious home-truths. We have no idea of the efforts that have been put into Trac finally waking up. Some of our other players aren't yet mature enough maybe? I do think we miss McCartney. Previously Goodwin got through to Gus and remember when big Max completely transformed himself in the pre-season of 2018? We keep hearing the same story - the truly elite didn't realise that their training standards were somewhat lacking (relatively) until they actually woke up and accepted that being elite required a full and total commitment. I think we have a few players on this precipice.

Will stand by my Clarry assessment every minute of the hour. You're welcome to forward some better examples. Of course games-for-games' sake is irrelevant - but your own examples are telling. It's the very top of what young players are capable of, and we're not far behind. The Cats had a mini-dynasty and keep on keeping on because of those players.

Yep. But then Covid. No one has any experience of that. I think they got it wrong but I don't blame them - the number of things I've got wrong since Covid is insane. Burnt all the houses down. So be it.

Clarry is an exceptional player who has a few things to work on. Still just 22 and has been one of the league's very top echelon of contested players since day one. The best in-tight player I have ever seen. Even yesterday he did a few things that were extraordinary but barely noticeable. After recent criticism he managed to remodel his game slightly and show what he is capable of. He may have regressed a bit in the past couple of games but the full package is there waiting to explode. It will come. Trac has shown what a dedicated pre-season and maturity can do. Yes, still has some things to learn, and how to impact matches when not everything is in his favour (such as his effort vs St Kilda). Just reached the 100-game mark and in an objective perspective is already one of the top-five players in the AFL - with actual real potential to keep improving. Gus I don't know. Got a giddy-up (from Simon Goodwin) in 2018 and ended up third in the Brownlow. Everything he does and says makes me think of an immature individual still. Competing in a packed mid-field. Have no idea if he will ever reach his potential but he's obviously a very capable player (whatever one thinks of Brownlow voting). Langdon: I think we're all still coming to terms with having an actual bona fide winger. And because he's an import it doesn't feel real as to the MFC. Plus he's still just a kid as well. 80 games. No reason that he won't keep developing and occupying a wing for the next half a decade to come. He has already improved during this season alone - including his kicking. Gawn. I didn't agree with his captaincy but it is what it is in Neeldism terms. First season as captain and probably one of the most difficult seasons as to leadership that will ever happen. He's still in the discussion for league-best rucks - the best tap-ruckman I have ever seen - and would expectedly grow into his role. Now - again, imagine all of the above have another 50 to 80 games under their belt, rather than an average of 85 or so.

I can't be bothered doing the leg-work across the entire league but would presume that the top-dozen most-capped players for any given team wouldn't be fringe players such as Omac and Hunt. Geelong is a bit easy but I'll run a Collingwood, Bulldogs and GWS comparison - the three teams currently above us on the ladder (please note, I'm not a close football follower anymore so don't know exactly if some of these players may be currently out of favour or in form or not. Also probable name spelling mistakes). Bulldogs: most capped current players (in order) - Wood, Macrae, Wallis, Liberatore, Bontempelli, Johannisen, Hunter (all who have played more games than our captain). Collingwood: Pendles, Sidebottom, Reid, Grundy, Adams (all who have played more or close to the same number of games as our captain and then of course our midfield and core players). GWS: Cameron, Ward, Davis, Greene, Shaw, Coniglio, Whitfield, Haynes, Kennedy, Kelly, Williams (all who have played bar Kelly more or the same number of games as our captain and midfield). I think my original thesis fails. But a simple analysis shows how inexperienced our core is compared to the teams around us.

I almost wish now we ended up playing in Tasmania. Even then, we've probably achieved some single-season air-miles/grounds-played record that will possibly never be broken. And not playing in Tassie in the end was just another of our specific disruptions to our season. With the multiple football frenzies it's easy to overlook that every other team has had a recent bye and refresher besides us and Essendon. Look how the Bombers are currently travelling. In an ordinary season we'd all look at a Cairns fixture or five-day break with trepidation.

One Spargo standing on top of another Spargo might be a decent player.

I agree that the current skill level is deplorable. But I don't think that is as an inherent thing as it seems. Watch us or any other team play with confidence and run and then suddenly everyone is a sublime kick, or it just doesn't matter so much. I acknowledge there is a gap though and that we need to focus on bringing in better foot-skills (was on the Hayden Young bandwagon last year for that reason). Our midfield (and core) is definitely a concern as to skills, but I would forward Danger and Martin as just a couple examples of not particularly clean players who can still have a huge impact.

I have huge respect for our longer-suffering members Old Dee and have expressed that numerous times in the past - would never deny or devalue that grief. But it's the members who are the only remote glue in a ship of Theseus sense. I don't think we can be judged on anything more than the past decade or so - almost no one who was a part of the club in 2008 is still present today. We are still though trying to overcome recent legacy issues and I both agree with the bolded and disagree with the larger statement. Those players are definitely nowhere near the quality of Geelong's seniors, but our list is mostly okay. Imagine Trac, Clarry, Brayshaw. Langdon and Gawn with 200-plus games under their belts. We're still a fraction shy of true maturity. Petracca's season this year is a good example.

Just checked and Oscar, ANB and Hunt are the 10th to 12th most experienced current players in Demon colours. Hard to get the head around.

In Europe we drink stout closer to room temperature. Get into it now Wise.

We can look forward to 2021 and beyond. We will catch alight again - mark my words or put it in the book or whatever people say. 2018 was a false or very narrow window and 2020 has been an unprecedented [censored]-fest. We have a very good but still maturing core. Our seniors are all but finished though. That core will become our new senior leadership soon and we have some very talented youngsters. No one likes excuses (a nod to @Engorged Onion for asking what is the difference between excuses and reasons?) - but we've been up against it this season. Compare the Demons' fixture to the Bulldogs or Richmond for example. I really don't know how anyone can discount it. (Note here how outside of the Pickett/Spargo blip we've kept a very tidy house this year). If we had been recently successful then most people would agree, as well as understanding the toll of injuries in 2019 - but we carry the baggage of failure. Spouting anywhere anytime rhetoric is great as a mentality or catchphrase but it isn't the reality (West Coast won a recent flag but was consistently poor on the road, while Richmond has struggled away). We've designed one of the most even sporting competitions in the world - and as such any small advantage is magnified (see Geelong getting their senior players to agree to pay-cuts for example, or father-sons and priority picks). We have some small advantages coming but we still suffer the legacy of the Neeld & tanking era where our list balance was thrown into disarray. Our window opens again next year but probably won't reach it's peak until 2022/23. It's [censored] but it's the reality. I don't care about Goodwin anymore (I'm still a supporter but if he has lost the vast majority of the membership then that's a cause for concern) - but we need to stay the course in some respects. A total rebuild now would be hugely detrimental. Just reflect on Jones, TMac, Jetta, and Melksham for instance - our most senior players - and their contribution this season, and compare it to Geelong maybe. Bar Jones, all of Selwood, Ablett, Dangerfield, Hawkins, Taylor, Tuohy and Dahlhaus have played more games than anyone on our list. Is it any wonder that mature players have handled this season better than others?