picket fence

And why not Sue, since obviously we picked correctly or is it incorrectly again, you fail to grasp the fact that we have been making shocking dumb recruiting decisions for EONS, perhaps the Jimmy Toumpas one is seen to be the last straw! Pick, draw blood, reach bone, let it hurt some more, ah "Pain" learn to love it!

Much discussion on this topic I would like to add a response to some From why you little "you make a valid point Sue but when one plays like he is blinded and shite scared by oncoming headlights regularly whilst the other continues to rip it up in the engine room does kind of remind you of the chasm of difference that seems to exist." The chasm of difference is the exceptionally poor recruiting both of players and coaching staff which has plunged our club close to the abyss! For far too long we have been saddled with incompetence of poor choice recruiting and coaching staff! From Demon Dan, Hmm, why wouldnt you take a ready made mid, who already knew and grew up with an important established Melbourne family and again, was clearly the pick of the crop? How long do we have to be the f*cking dumb club of the competition? Pick away.. go hard.. infect.. hit bone! Yep HIT BONE! Only through collective consciousnous can we ever hope that if it hurts enough then so be it. Lets start building from bone like reconstructive knee surgery! Feel the pain before the inevitable watershed of good solid structure and footy nous. From Stui I could not be sicker of people who think every single player should be a pack busting tough as nails ball winner. If we had 18 blokes who were "see ball, get ball" who the hell would they kick it to? Ridiculous comment. Agree in part so, which of our mids would get a game at another club??? Its all about quality midfield clearances the difference between a quality mid and a mid is the ability to win clearances and contested ball.you don’t think another quality mid a la Ollie wines wouldn’t help our cause? From Je Roos Salem If Toumpas is a soft outside player who we need for versatility, then he isn't a good enough soft outside player, or at least yet. He doesn't look like the devastating type, he moves around a bit awkwardly and doesn't really dictate play and win enough of the ball. You can't simply get by with skills, you need awareness, pace, hardness- all things Toump is lacking in to make an impact at AFL level Yep agree on all levels, and perhaps depending on whether Toumpas plays ,I would rather develop Watts, Blease, and possibly Salem for these roles. From Sambo 06 Toumpas = Mitchell, Hodge, Bartel -all speedy blokes LOL! Ollie is great, long live Ollie in PA. LOL!Toump is going to be a star. Soft is he? Refer Geelong. I suppose Sambo is refering to the game last year where Jimmy played well rather than the recent game which I have already spoken about. To be seen as more than a flash in the pan we need to see more of that type of form, that is not to say he can’t, but the early signs haven’t been good. The difference between ability and volition to actually doing in some players is a very hard thing to do! I suspect in Jimmy Toumpas situation this is more the case. HE IS HOWEVER, A MELBOURNE PLAYER AND FOR REASONS ALREADY STATED I HOPE, REALLY HOPE HE CAN DO WHAT OTHERS ON THIS FORUM BELIEVE HIM CAPABLE OF DOING! WE REALLY CANNOT AFFORD TO HAVE ANYONE ELSE BEING AT THIS CLUB BEING LABELED UNFULFILLED POTENTIAL, MORE CRITICALLY NOW! End of rant 2

Happy to support when he goes harder at the footy, no problem with that!

Agree and also You are talking about two different types of players Wines insider with outside nous, Toumpas totally outside! Reality 1 if your inside mids can't get it your outside mids will starve!! Reality 2 You never ever can have too many quality inside mids, Just ask Hawthorn, Collingwood, Sydney et al. Those leaping to Toumpas defence cannot seem to grasp this basic insight!

Happy to open my eyes, if you would take your blinkers of! FWIW for just as many ( a dwindling number ) of Staunch Toumpas advocates there are many on both this and other forums, Demonolgy for example who agree with my opinion. Remember this is a supporter forum where debate is and should be the order of the day. You have you Opinion and I have mine. Good luck! Having played and coached in footy doesn't make my opinion any better than yours, but in reality I put my experience where my mouth is and proclaim what I see as my reality.Take it or leave it, hope Toumpas can turn it around and become a very good player but at the moment his weaknesses are being glaringly exposed on the big stage. Yes I have seen some SOME good things , but nowhere near enough to justify his selection. Time for an extended run at Casey to learn both inside and outside footy skills!

As he was this week, last week and much of last year! Reality Bites hard .

I think after today reality might be setting in from many reports from those who were at the match today. I refer to the continuing poor form of Jimmy Toumpas. I ask honestly and in the spirit of ROBUST DEBATE have we picked poorly again?? I can't have players that only run one way to Cale Morton like spaces, who only have one speed and who's attack on the ball could be called questionable! And before the smarties on this forum jump up and down and point to him getting whacked last game, well one what should have been uncontested mark was not and the resulting Geelong player was duly reported. What I cannot understand is blind optimism from some supporters who say yeah well he's young, coming of ops, etc yadda yadda Ollie Wines is so far ahead of this kid its becoming a mute point! Get the hard ball son, do some hard running otherwise if you don't the inevitable comparisons with Ollie Wines will remain, and our recruiting strategy although from previous admin will also be heavily scrutinised and so it should! And people like me so long suffering, will and should be sceptical until we see something, anything! End of rant!

You would have to be JOKING, I'll tear up my membership if that ever happened!

Back on the thread, Couldn't imagine in my wildest dreams Ollie Wines ever putting in some short steps to avoid forceful contact, unlike one of ours who needs to learn more about hard ball gets and putting his body in consistently!

Paul Callery was a true rover and had a very impressive AFL/VFL Record! 198 games 200 goals. Morrish Medalist , Leading goalkicker in 1971 A man of principle, when Tiger Ridley was sacked, in a show of loyalty he went to St.Kilda and played exceptionally well!

Never Ever could understand how he even made the list much less stayed on it. Lacks awareness, Speed, X factor, and his supposed kicking skills are not that good ( witness his shocking turnover last week) I know those that love him say Yeah but he had a badly broken leg but he clearly aint up to it and never will be! Plenty in front for his place!

Quote by Ken Hinkley in todays Hun on Ollie Wines: "This kid is going to be a serious player... you are nearly not going to be able to stop him when he wants the ball" Gee wouldn't Roosy have loved to have drafted this kid? Hnmm a player that really wants the ball? You can't have too many of those? Eh?

Jack Watts ( just to shut a few around here up!)

The fact that Lyon is still getting a game is an indictment on Australia's spin bowling stocks What have we tried since Warne 10-15 others Farrrrrrr out! We now continue with (or not turn to) a bloke who has not ONCE won a game for Australia, even on crumbling day 5 pitches! FACE IT NATHAN LYON IS NOT A MATCH WINNER!! FAWAD AHMED POTENTIALLY IS and for all facts and stats created. Time to be bold! Oh, Sorry Mr. Inverarity boldness was never your suite!

POMS TO WIN IN SERIES WHITEWASH Putting on my soothsayer hat I predict 1 Watson to break down for yet the Nth time and as result, placing test career in extreme doubt. 2 Mitch Johnson to bowl so many "unplayable balls" by virtue that he will be all over the place in yet another "Insipid" waste of the new ball. 3 Nathan "I don't spin the ball at all" to be "Belted" out of the attack and therefore playing his last test for Australia, Fawad Ahmed "Come on down! 4 Iron Gloves Haddin to have a stinker with bat and gloves therefore leaving test career in jeopardy again. 5 Clarke to captain poorly and have even more critics than before. 6 Rhino Harris to bowl himself into stress fracture territory. That will suffice for the moment!

Ahem, Trengove will struggle to get a game with his lack of pace! Really struggling to find a position for him at this stage!

B: Garland Frawley Terlich HB: Clisby McDonald Grimes C: Watts N Jones Michie HF: Howe Hogan Kent F: Dawes Clark Dom Barry Foll: Jamar Viney Vince Int: Tyson M Jones Cross Sub: Pick 9 Mc Kenzie surplus to needs( How a stopper with limited skills got a three year deal is beyond me) Trengove backup only Dunn ditto Blease needs to show a lot more than a flash runs out of breath far too easily! Waiting in wings Fitzy, Gawn, and a few others! Take it or leave it

Meanwhile back onto the thread, Toumpas would want to work extremely hard on his deficiencies, have a solid pre- season and play very consistent footy to change my mind about where I reckon he is at. Not a walk up start in my team by any stretch of the imagination!

Well said Macca, let's hope the Footy God's smile fatefully our way for a change ? Eh?

And roll up roll up for some of the most insipid, poorest recruiting display by any professional? sporting club this side of the universe! Shheeeit how can we be so bad OR IS IT GOOD at A) Picking duds B) Failing to develop on almost any player on our list! Cale Morton sheesh another great great pick up And so I do not care for the party line '"He was rated by other recruiters" bultish Others may have rated him but, Fact is we picked him at 4 And don't get me started on Gysberts! When will this miserable recruiting and non player development end? Has someone put an ancient curse/spell on us that just cannot be broken?

One of the few decent football decisions we got right! Magner far too slow for AFL and with limited Skills! Who will forget the embarrassing attempt to kick a set shot from 25-30 meters out which failed to make the distance!? Cards marked not long after! Good VFL/Country footballer but nothing else!

Yep agree with most of this. Was somewhat cruelled by injuries both at Melbourne and of late Norwood ( ACL) Still, he played 25 games for 35 Goals as records show, which was a handy return for one so maligned on this forum.

Mark Harvey anyone, very badly done by at Freo, like his passionate responses and apparently very very good with player management?!