1964_2

1 minute ago, layzie said:

Never really one to run with sources but I've heard from one who claims to have heard that LJ is flip flopping all over the place on this. Like a bit of a scatter-brain Jane. 

Great to hear! 

Fri night has to make him think twice. In terms of showing the gap between us and Freo. 
 

4 minutes ago, 640MD said:

Well only half hour outside,   You would have to think the loading is completed.

KM  did Weid train with the seniors and the other bloke JVR ?     thanks

Think goody mentioned something post game about a light week on the track. Lookout Pies! 

With Gus proving his midfield capabilities, how does this change things in terms of team structure?

I thought his defensive game was significantly improved from Gus the midfielder circa 2018

1 minute ago, von said:

But they really don’t dissect games much at all and this is why the afl media is a useless joke of a product that will hopefully one day be overhauled/modernised. Who amongst them would you say is a good analyst?

Anyone watch Lloyd on Sun footy show yesterday?

Am sure there would have been no accountability to how wrong he is/was? 
 

1 minute ago, mo64 said:

Not really. Max is just going with his heart. Max also said that it hadn't affected Jackson's football.

Jackson hasn't been playing well since the conjecture has been at it's highest. Gus who has been playing well, admitted that the decision played on his mind. If Jackson has decided to stay, he'd sign asap and play with a clear mind.

You see those monster bandages on Jacko’s knee?  Jacko most likely not fully fit since returning from knee injury R17

12 minutes ago, old dee said:

There is no doubt IMO that we will finish in the top four however I find it difficult to believe we can win the flag this year with the poor state of our KPF's. With Tmac out for probably the rest of this year we are left with Brown and Weideman. Brown is way below his best and enough has been said about Sam. We would need Brown to show form he has not shown all year. I see a prelim loss on the horizon. 

OD surely you can see that our game relies much more on our defence, defensive 2 way run, and gun midfielders, than it does on gun KPFs? 

We just smashed a potential top 4 team, with our sole key forward having next to no impact. 
 

24 minutes ago, JimmyGadson said:

I don't think a comment from an ex-coach or player such as, "they look like they've been in a heavy loading phase which is contributing to their poor performance" is giving anything away. 

Especially if it's universally known that clubs do it as so many keep saying. 

Why wouldn't it be a talking point more often if it's so relevant? 

My thoughts are that maybe it has an effect and maybe it doesn't. Every week the media dissect a game to the nth degree, you'd think they would talk about this topic more if it was such an influencing factor? They don't hold back on taboo topics, if this is that. 

It simply doesn't make sense. 

Jimmy, have you considered the possibility that Burgess implemented something last year that was cutting edge, and hadn’t been attempted by a club previously. With Selwyn carrying on the similar successful program this year. 

Not saying I know this for sure, just saying it’s something to consider. Best to keep an open mind, rather than waiting for someone to come and spell it out for you. 
 

33 minutes ago, mo64 said:

The facepalm was for 2 reasons. Firstly, Jackson isn't worth Hayden Young and a first rounder, and Freo aren't trading away their guns who are locked in long term. Do you think we'll play some stupid game of putting in ambit claims? Our recent list management has always been about getting deals done, and moving on so that other deals can be brokered.

Secondly, as I replied, there is no evidence that Jackson will re-sign for 2 years if we don't get what we want. Our best case scenario is that Jackson's management have told Freo that the Dees have been respectful to Jackson, and fair compensation is warranted. 

Two 1st rounders (both in the teens + steak knives) or a 1st round pick in the top 10 and a 2nd rd pick + steak knives.

I've never known a club that's lost an uncontracted player that's "held the upper hand" in trade negotiations.

The point was clear and is not without precedent. 

Jacko has a good relationship with club & players. Is grateful to be a premiership player. Would be leaving with mixed feelings. And does not want to leave on terms that would burn relationships with all. 

The agreement of find a fair deal, or I will sign on for 1-2 years and try for a trade again then is very possibly what is going on. 

Further, without question he is worth Young and a first rounder. A 20 year old, who has potentially shown more than any other 20 year old ruckman at the same age for the last couple of decades. 

9 hours ago, Pennant St Dee said:

People can say what they like, however he’s going to be a star . We need to hold firm and play hard. 
 

For mine we’re giving one of our best up and comers to a premiership rival . But he’s also a tall and we all know how hard they are to find and the value they hold. My price is Hayden Young and a first rounder.

Hold firm on this and we will get it. We have a player greatful  to the club who doesn’t want us to lose out, and will sign short term if the deal isn’t right. We actually really hold the upper hand 

Agree.

why any Melb supporter would facepalm this is beyond me. 

22 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

Josh Bruce had 2 disposals against us, manned by Tomlinson for a portion of the game.

Matt Taberner - who’s actually handy at his best - had 6 disposals last night. Felt like 2.

There’s no way to describe a 1 possession game as good but I don’t think it was Sam’s worst

You appear to enjoy taking the [censored]

1 hour ago, mo64 said:

Ridiculously premature. God help the kid if he actually makes it onto our list. The expectations will be nauseating.

Correct. Leave the kid alone. If nothing else, if he was to become aware of the pressure of being J.White’s son, it would be a good reason for him to choose Basketball over AFL. 

A legend, and definitely under-rated.

looking forward to the “is Fritsch too un-selfish” thread 

2 minutes ago, A F said:

St Kilda like to move the ball quickly off half back too and were in the top 4 or 6 when we played them. We completely shut them down.

When we're on, our system doesn't allow quick ball movement. It strangles teams. Just as it did Freo. Have you been watching for the last 18 months?

Defensive setup, and how quick we were to roll the zone across the ground or backwards last night, actually reminded me of what we did to St.Kilda earlier in the year. 

Rather than a big 40+ point win next week. Do we run with a couple of point win, to prove that not only can the filfth be beaten, but they are not the masters of the close games? 

8 minutes ago, Redleg said:

Interesting that Darcy didn’t want any part of the aggro against him, after the back tap on Tracc. 

Noticed that! 

Players would know Trac is one of the fairest players going around, who rarely wastes his energy agitating. 

It was almost like Darcy had conceded “yeah I probably shouldn’t have done that” 

2 hours ago, The heart beats true said:

How good was it seeing Melksham pull that jumper down last night? Arrogant supporters acting like it’s a done deal.

If he has to go I hope he goes to the Eagles now, and plays a blinder in every Derby.

Can’t recall seeing our players as p155ed off as last night in recent times.

Might have been a bit of healthy agitation re the poaching attempts. Certainly a bit more for LJ to think about this morning, around the risks of leaving a potential dynasty team.

9 minutes ago, CYB said:

I think there is element of loading that has effected our performance of late but our pressure has been down all year - even at the start. ‘playing in 2nd gear’ , ‘just getting it done’, ‘winning ugly’ we’re being dished out in the first 10 rounds. The lack of pressure is obviously exacerbated by our loading program.

I always thought the lack of pressure  was by design .   There is no need to smash teams early in the year - it’s a very long season. The wins are the important outcome and we relied on system to get this done. However 18th in pressure when our system relies on it wasn’t what I expected and I think the complacency has crept into the game.

The focus on ruthlessness this week was to remind ourselves of what it takes to win in Sept, knowing that you cant just switch it on like a light switch - you need to build into it. 

Good points. But, how good is it to be sitting in 2nd position, when we are 18th for pressure!

Does anyone doubt what our pressure will be for a final on the G? 
 

14 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

I'm not defending the media analysts mate. I agree we rarely get fantastic in-depth discussion from the majority of them. None of that has been my point.

You are twisting what has been said, and trying to suggest we think Melb thought it would be fun to troll the media.

No. All we are saying, is just because knowone in the media can look deeper than “ruthlessness” as a reason, doesn’t mean there wasn’t more behind the win. Richmond, Geel, Hawthorn and some of the great teams would have been pretty confident by R20 in their flag years :- Did they spoon feed the media why they were a great chance of winning the flag those years?! Of course not. 

This year many of us have just found it interesting how quickly people have been to jump off us (demonland posters, media, public, everyone). 

This week pre game 80-90% of people would have said Geel is a greater chance of winning the flag. I just find that strange. The team that we beat by 83 points in last year’s prelim (granted with some good reasons, why they are better this year) 
 

14 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

I'm in the loading camp mate, always have been.

But it's obvious from those comments those posters think all the talk from the club during the week about ruthlessness and complacency was a front for the media to hide the fact we're loading.

"Hook, line and sinker" "Club taking the [censored] in the media" "Playing 'ruthless' bingo"

This conspiracy belief that the club made up a narrative and sent out our coach, footy boss and a couple of our leaders to deliver it in the media is just silly. The simple answer is that was the theme of the week, that's why it was front of mind, that's why numerous people from the club used the exact same words.

Because I believe we were loading I think we were more capable of delivering it, playing how we want to play, but we wouldn't be talking about attitudes within the club if our only focus was loading.

Of course to benefit from a loading program, mental application and focus is required :- pretty sure most “loaders” thought this is that obvious that it doesn’t need to be said. 
 

3 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

I'm in the loading camp mate, always have been.

But it's obvious from those comments those posters think all the talk from the club during the week about ruthlessness and complacency was a front for the media to hide the fact we're loading.

"Hook, line and sinker" "Club taking the [censored] in the media" "Playing 'ruthless' bingo"

This conspiracy belief that the club made up a narrative and sent out our coach, footy boss and a couple of our leaders to deliver it in the media is just silly. The simple answer is that was the theme of the week, that's why it was front of mind, that's why numerous people from the club used the exact same words.

Because I believe we were loading I think we were more capable of delivering it, playing how we want to play, but we wouldn't be talking about attitudes within the club if our only focus was loading.

Got me again, well done.

We did not say we don’t believe the club when they say there is a focus on ruthlessness etc. it’s a great message and a great mindset for the players to be in! 

Again, no criticism to Melb. A PR strategy, like all big organisations have. They have not lied to the media, they have just been selective in what they  have released. This shouldn’t be a surprise to anyone. 

Here is a challenge for you LN. Find me one media commentator/analyst, that shows an ability to dig a little deeper in analysing why we turned things around last night. That is the focus of this discussion. The lack of ability for the media both pre game and post game to actually have a deeper understanding of where we are at, and why we probably should be outright flag favourites. 

What is Lloyd going to say now, after completely writing us off the last few weeks?! 
 

3 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

Exactly.

Personally I believe in the loading and am record about it, but to think that's the only thing happening at the club and to think they all go together and said 'let's troll the media by saying "ruthless" lots this week' is one of the silliest things I've read on Demonland.

 

Making stuff up most likely to bait a response. Good for you. 

You and Luci came up with those words, re con / trolling the media. 

The club like all clubs, and like always is selective in what it releases to the media. Fact. 
 

There is no criticism or judgement on Melb in its PR approach. flashinthepan’s comments make a lot of sense also. Reinforce a message in the media, that may flow through to players and get them focused on what they can control. 
 

There 100% is criticism and judgement on the media for not having the ability to analyse things a bit more deeply and see that last nights performance was driven by more than just a “pow wow” and “ruthlessness” 

Over and out. Have a great day! 

6 minutes ago, Lucifers Hero said:

I could list a few reasons but then we go down that 'rabbit hole' again so I won't.

My post was about the idea the club set out to con the media.  For what?

It’s got nothing to do with a media con. Has got to do with releasing information that suits you. 

Why give away intel that would be useful for your opposition. 
 

18 minutes ago, Lucifers Hero said:

So now we have this grand conspiracy where key club leaders (Richardson, Goodwin, Petracca, Brayshaw) are conning the media? 

For what end?

Implied in this thread it is to not fess up that we are loading?

Really, I would have thought saying nothing or a few straight bat words around training loads etc would be a lot less embarrassing than admitting to complacency, arrogance, lack of ruthlessness, lack of buy-in.

The media are generally idiots and after click bait.  Why on earth would our club waste time to con them?  Not to mention to spend time getting our leaders to all sing from the same song book!  

I don't for a minute believe everything that comes out from the club.  But to think this weeks meeting and club commentary is just a charade to fool the stupid media is insulting to the club.

Luci, why did we suddenly run out the game for 4 quarters for the first time in a couple of months? (Other than the Lions game, where we had a rest week, coming off the bye) 

Hook, line and sinker. Watch every stupid media commentator say for the next week, how we have magically re-discovered our “ruthlessness”, “fitness”, and “defensive game”. 

And most painful of all will be Kingy claiming he was correct in identifying the “pow wow” as a turning point. 

21 minutes ago, BW511 said:

Could the talk of ‘ruthlessness’ be a little bit of code for being fresh.

If we come out firing tonight, it looks to most like an attitude issue that we adjusted, when in reality it was just getting to the end of the loading period and we can actually cover the ground required to be ruthless.

Exactly.

The club knew we would be significantly better this week. And also know how dumb the media are, so they have planted the narrative pre game “pow wow”, “ruthlessness”, “hunger” etc 

whatever.