titan_uranus

Perfect example of how insipid our 'leadership' is. Other things to note include Riewoldt's goal at 1.07, where four MFC players contested the mark (four. They had one.) Good observation. The footage of Roos yelling 'push back' into the phone is actually as the ball is being bounced after Howe's goal. Clearly he's looking at our players not flooding back and trying desperately to fix it. Howe kicks the goal and Jones, Grimes, plenty of senior players get around him, but none of them motion to run backwards. I think back to the 2012 GF when Malceski kicked the selaer. As soon as he kicked it, he smiled (obviously) but started running to full back. Howe? He lapped it up. IMO a part of the losing culture at the club is a chronic inability to keep the lid on when any hint of success shows up. Hence the inability to win consecutive games. I think a similar thing happened with this goal, too many players thought the job was done without putting in the hard work.

It's hard to go past the last 40 seconds but you're right. We were awful from halfway through the third quarter onwards (just the Howe goal from that point to the end). St Kilda being a fellow bottom 6 side is the only reason they didn't blow us apart in the fourth.

We had 108 more disposals, I'm not that worried about having had 29 fewer tackles. In fact, as a proportion of disposals, our 70 tackles to their 307 disposals is a higher ratio than their 99 tackles to our 415 disposals. The game wasn't lost because we weren't hard enough. It was lost because we, again, made too many errors, and again, had no leadership when needed.

Grimes wasn't anywhere near as bad as some of our other players today. He doesn't deserve to be dropped. And Terlich hasn't earned a recall.

Essendon is missing from the 'serious potential' wins.

After WC we have Essendon, Brisbane and St Kilda, all at the G. We have to be primed for those games, they are eminently winnable for any side in the competition, let alone us. This board will be singing a very different tune if we can take all three and be 6-10 heading into a game against Collingwood (I'm not saying that is going to happen of course, but I have no doubt we can do it).

I agree with you, although I think it's fair for us to note that we do have talented players on the list around whom a future can be built. Whether we build it obviously remains to be seen, but it's not like there is nothing on the list to look at and say 'yes, there is something to work with there'. The players you've listed were almost all the Bailey era (i.e. under Neeld we had very little, if anything, to get excited about).

'Apologists' can stop patting the young kids on the back? First of all, why is someone an 'apologist' for supporting our kids? Second, what is wrong with supporting the kids? The kids aren't the problem, the senior players are. I don't really care how many touches Jones or Vince got, or whether Dunn held Bruce, their lack of leadership is horrendous (not just today, all season) and that's the reason we're losing. It's not the kids. Quite clearly we are being held back by the lack of leadership. As for the ball movement, the problem is primarily personnel. We carry unskilled players (Riley, Michie), but more than that we don't run hard enough for long enough. Whether that's fitness, work ethic, confidence, or a combination of those things, we regularly do not have players making space forward of the ball. When we do, we actually look great. But that happens far too irregularly.

Dawes will most likely replace Pedersen, even if he's not in form. Knowing our luck Pedersen will be done for the season. Riley and Michie add nothing but a few tackles, but I'm not sure there is much to be gained from switching them for anyone else. ANB and Stretch aren't ready and I'd like to send them back to Casey to build form, but again, I'm not sure there's much to be gained until the injured players are ready to come back. I'd consider Fitzpatrick back in as the second tall defender, push Dunn up the ground and make him work harder (so lazy right now playing last line in defence).

That is having a go, and that is adding to Toumpas bashing. He got caught napping? How about the leaders for failing to do the things identified in Dr Gonzo's post? Whilst he clearly does his best on the outside, you're not watching his clear improvement on the inside. He's developed confidence and an willingness to get his hands dirty and it's making him a much better player.

At least with the juniors and the kids, the lack of experience provides a reason why things go wrong in the heat of the last minutes. There is no such excuse for the leaders. It's ridiculous that there are people on here having a go at Toumpas because Montagna kicked that goal. Not only was Toumpas possibly our best today, but that goal could have been kicked by anyone. A clogged backline would have helped.

But Riley played, and how good was he! What aggression! Never backs away from a contest!

Only St Kilda could have dominated the fourth quarter like that and find themselves losing with 40 seconds to go. But only Melbourne could lose despite going ahead with 40 seconds to go.

It is, but in the heat of the last 40 seconds there's only so much Roos can do. There is no excuse, none at all, for Jones, Vince, Cross, Lumumba and Dunn not screaming at the others to get back behind the play. Can you imagine Selwood, Ablett, Pendlebury, Fyfe etc. not being in that last bounce? You don't need the coach to tell you, just get in there Jones.

Jones couldn't properly shake the tag. Too many of Vince's kicks are up-and-under. Cross too. Lumumba was awful, Dunn squibbed contests, and apparently none of them organised a flood into the backline. Riley and Michie are clearly not good enough, Stretch and ANB are clearly not ready, but none of that matters - our leaders are continuing to stifle development at this club.

There are some serious problems at this club if we had 6 forwards after the Howe goal. Whether it's on the players, or the coaches, or a combination of both, I don't care, that's an indictment on this club.

Heartbreaking. 40 seconds away from breaking two ridiculous hoodoos and we give them miles of space in the forward line.

That's pathetic. 40 seconds was all we needed to defend.

Riley! That's pathetic!

Riley is just useless at this level.

Horrendous last 10 minutes, from McDonald whinging to the umpire, to Hogan playing on in the goalsquare. Lucky Membrey missed. Pedersen off means Gawn has a massive task ahead of him.

We're not putting it on the scoreboard but we're all over them right now. Let's hope we can push on with it.

Wow did not think McDonald was going to put that through the sticks, but that's a fantastic running effort from him.

Good fightback. As I said earlier, St Kilda's very mediocre but we're behind because we give them easy goals with bad turnovers. We're capable of scoring, and scoring quickly (2 goals in 90 seconds, then 3 goals in 3 minutes) but the errors are not good enough. But I take solace from the fact that it's only 6 points despite the errors. Watts is playing really well, obviously Hogan too. Viney, Toumpas and Brayshaw are also impressing. The kids are alright (even if ANB and Stretch appear way off AFL level for me right now). It's the leaders that, once again, will win or lose this game for this club.

They're actually quite average. They have great endeavour and pressure, but their skills are as bad as ours are. It's easier for them though because of our turnovers and mistakes which ruin any hard work of ours and give them easy goals.