grazman

My understanding (certainly from reading the paper today) is that all are out of contract at the end of the year and will not re-sign until the end of the year. There are whispers (and that is all they are - not even strong enough to be rumours) that both Judd and Pavlich are disgruntled with the culture at their respective clubs... go figure! Anyway time will tell. My personal feeling is that Chris Judd would add more to the club than either of the other two (both of whom I rate highly). I just think with Judd, as well as obviously being a fantastic player and leader on the field, would add that much more in terms of increased sponsorship/marketing with the club as well as membership. Anyway here's some interesting stats in relation to Judd and Pavlich and their relative worth. Chris Judd. ranked first for total possessions in 2007, first in clearances 2007 (1st 2006, 3rd 2005), second in contested possessions 2007 (1st in 2006 & 2005), second in first possessions 2007 (2nd 2006 & 4th 2005) and first for inside fifties in 2007. Matthew Pavlich. ranked for fourth for goals in 2007 (4th in 2006), fifth for total marks in 2007 (3rd in 2006 & 2005) , fourth for contested marks in 2007 (2nd 2006 & 3rd 2005)

I loved the little salute to the crowd by Bater... good on ya son!

They wanted him last year and he stayed with the Dees!

Leadership material... you betcha... how good were those marks

Good thread - simply outstanding, brave as the day is long and just gives his all for the club.... any Belly knockers want to post some humble pie?

Nope landed awkwardly and jarred it. Should be OK I think, they'll do the tests, but I'm sure he'll be OK. Neita is still having problems with his knee, but he didn't play like he was in any discomfit, and he certainly wasn't kicking like he was.

Petterd... sorry to be picky.

A settled back six with Carroll, Rivers and Frawley to play tall along with Bell, Petterd and Wheels as the smalls, and Wheatley the pinch hitter. Bate as the lead up CHF bombing goals from beyond fifty. Brock and Jones in the middle. Davey running all over the ground, Sylvia injury free... I'm excited. (I'm happy to shelve the Bell to midfield planning for now - what a sensational game!!!)

They didn't go nuts - it was a process. Boyle was recruited two years under Schwab, who fell on his sword by admitting he got it wrong with the list and calls on older players (some parallels there I think), Clarkson then purged the list of players that wouldn't be around in three or fours years. They took a calculated gamble in drafting Franklin and Roughead, but Roughead may very well prove to many that you pick the best available player, rather than the best bigman available. The other major difference is that Danners has always sought to strengthen the list, he hasn't traded away first round picks. Our U23 core is stronger than that which Clarkson inherited from Schwab.

Let's test our knowledge with a little close exercise.. fill in the blanks from a Clubs CEO "The people of _______ have demonstrated their clear support for the ______ and in turn we are genuinely committed to them. If you said answered that it was the Swans CEO talking about the people of Canberra give yourselves a pat on the back -err hang on he's actually talking about an away game here.... does this seem slightly out of context. Big deal you say we knew this was the way it was going to be... afterall we've sold home games to Brisvegas. But for mine there's a key difference. The crowd in Canberra although reported as 14,500 - (the ground's official capacity) was actually over 15,000, 90% of whom were barracking for the Swans (and no that's not an exageration) It's not playing a home game at Canberra that worries me as much as it is about the AFL's rationale by making us play the Swans there. As if Sydney don't have a big enough share of the market already. Recently the Swans came out and suggested that people in NSW don't so much as follow the AFL as they follow the Swans. Absolutely true, there were truck loads that switched their allegiances from Victorian clubs to the Swans once they started marketing themselves as the NSW side and significantly started winning as well. They actually don't need anymore members or supporters for that matter.... nor do they seem to need the extra advantages by playing to extra quasi-home matches. The Kangaroos at Manuka drew reasonable crowds of 12,000 + spectators when they weren't playing the Swans. Call me cynical, but If the AFL was concerned about the Lions getting free kicks by us playing home games up there, why the hell have they allowed this situation to occur? Its a travesty, billing the Swans in Canberra isn't about building the code as it is about paying off a team for taking away their concessions, (though they can still rookie twice as many players as we can). Why would we play a home match against the Swans in Canberra, when it could just as easily be any other interstate side? Where's the advantage for us.... luckily it will work in our favour this year.

I love Bruce, I wouldn't trade him for too many players, but Judd yes who is BTW easily the league's CP and clearance elite (though he's helped by his team mates). I don't know how you could quantify it, Judd will probably never leave, but if he came to Melbourne, he'd be worth more in terms of members, and sponsorship. He's also a big game performer, and that's the one area that Cam is still yet to prove himself. So in summary, I'd trade him for the best in the business, but very little else.

I'd swap him for Judd, if they wouldn't take anyone else.... some of the stuff written about Bruce this year however, is just rubbish. He has had more contested possession than any other Demon this year and is ranked 20th in the league. He has rated consistently in our top three for CPs, Tackles and 1%s for the last three years and people keep slamming him for being a reciever. When we looked shot for all money the bloke collects 12 possessions in the last quarter alone and kicks a goal, yet people question his leadership. He had three errors yesterday, that's one less than TJ and five less than Jones. Very few players find their way through traffic like Cameron Bruce... he is up there with Brock, TJ and Rivers for footy smarts. Yes his kicking is a little erratic at times, particularly at goal, but he's a much better kick than Scott West for example. I love the bloke and wish people would just get off his case, he is much better than a lot give him credit for.

Thanks Rhino, I was wondering if someone was going to bring it up. Ward and Bizzell in the same side is a half forward's wet dream. I'm not out to bag the blokes, you need that run and drive off the half back line, you need your backmen to be brave and take risks, but there are also times they need to be accountable. I'd urge anyone going to the game next week to note his direct opponent and watch the contests carefully.

Jack I don't have the answers for you , but according to the preseason guide Newton is 87 kgs and 193cm Which for me is still too light to play a KPP. By way of comparison James Gwilt for the Saints who has had a very good season so far and is fairly pacey, is 93kgs and 188cm tall. I'm not saying that the Saints have got their preparation right, nor am I infering that we have necessarily got it wrong, but if Newton is only 87 kgs I think that's too light. If he is only 80 they must be trying to turn him into a wingman.

I'm of a similar mind loons. I think he is most valuable forward. His move to the midfield has added more strings to his bow, but unless we have our best midfield playing his usefulness is markedly decreased , he can still move back there, but I'd like to see more flexibility in our forward setup.

Jones -4kgs Bruce -3kgs Green -3kgs Jonstone no change McDonald +1kg Dunn -3 kgs Bell + 1 kg Bate + 1kg This isn't my area of expertise at all, but obviously there have been far more players trimming down than adding weight. Of course looking good in the mirror and getting the ball aren't associated - look at Ricky. But I think KD's points still has merit in relation to the clear direction the footy department took and how this impacted on the physical conditioning of the players. Of course some players like Judd have both size and endurance.

Excellent post KD! It raises a very good point about Danners and his approach. Obviously he's looked at the list and the game plan and made the call that we needed to change something to be a true premiership threat. Many of us may disagree with his assessment, but he's also in a much better position to judge these things. In hindsight it has failed spectacularly, but as you point out injuries haven't helped. It maybe, however the season we needed to have. I believe the core strength in our list is still there, but the weaknesses that have been there for a while have been badly exposed. Kudos to Danners - he could have simply continued to do what we had always done and we could have papered over some of the cracks, but he chose to try something new and in the end may have wittingly or unknowingly addressed those cracks.

Now which other former Melbourne Full Forward (with back problems) does that remind you of. I don't think Juice has the strut yet?

How can he not have it and then be able to tease us with NAB cup performances - surely it must be there. I don't think its fair to quote stats at a bloke that spends more than half the game on the bench. I can live with him being dropped - he needs to come back mentally tougher.

Rogue you've got my vote, BTW He was selected in the U16 Aus side as a CHF. He won't be delisted.

I've always liked CJ, he moves well, reads the play and has great skills, he had a great preseason and I though this would be the year he would come of age. I see him very much as a wingman. Danner's doesn't seem to like him though. Since the preseason he hasn't really demanded selection with his performances, but then the coaches lack of confidence in him is also apparent. I hope he gets [censored] off enough to get out on the park and demand selection.

I would have thought this would be right up your alley Chilli. Both out of contract at the EOY and whispers of both being dissatisfied. I think the thread was alluding to hte possibility that if they did both want to decamp then who would people favour? I'm not sure about the second question though - seems a little redundant to me.

Either is a tantalising prospect. I went for Judd, I think he is simply the best footballer around at the minute and is a proven big match performer- but that's no reflection on Pav, just Freo - but it was very, very tight.

That shouldn't even come into it - Hutchy was stuck on 98 games and he really did bleed for the club.

Dan, many are predicting Kreuzer will go as first Pick. In which case he will go to Richmond, whose ruck situation is similar to ours. No one really knows, because so much of the draft is based around the national championships. That said it really doesn't matter whether you have pick 3 or 6 if you get to select the bloke you had pencilled in for your first pick, it matters a whole lot to the fabric of the team and player's attitudes if you give them any other message than being completely professional in their approach (which means winning). That would be all well and good if you knew that was happening in advance, you can plan for the future based on history, predictablility and the available intelligence. You can't plan for the future based on What if's.... Judd may come home, and Martians may land on the MCG as well. Its more prudent to plan around the knowns than the unknowns.