grazman

Excellent, thanks 45.

Gee McRae and the Bont looked good last night. Along with Wallis and Liber the doggies midfield in two years time is going to be very, very good.

Had a bit of chuckle when Flem and Warnie were commentating the other night and wished the Vics good luck in the shield final being played at their traditional home ground in Hobart. Very funny. Then started talking about bouncer repellent. I like Flem as a commentator he's a very witty bloke. Pity there's no coverage of the shield final at least as there has been in the past. I find Sheffield Shield still one of the most enjoyable forms of the game to watch. Vic's have their work cut out for them though with the Warriors at 4 for 310. Still with rain forecast for all of Monday and showers on Tuesday & Wednesday they would want to bowl well on what looks to be an extremely flat deck. Ahmed might be a sneaky chance for the ashes tour.

I think you missed the point.

You mean our really experienced Key Forwards like Hogan and Frost? Maybe Vandenberg's dropped mark? They will get better.

Don't you mean WE. Let's not forget that most of us sold the farm for a handful of magic beans called Tom and Jack. You reap what you sow. I doubt that the club will worry too much about the 'ridicule' of losing a preseason match. It has a lot of experience in being embarrassing in its recent history. I doubt that they'll dwell on it as much as the armchair experts, I think they'll probably try and address the problems ahead of a match for actual premiership points.

It's always so nice to hear Roos cool and measured response to these sorts of performances. The really displeasing thing for me wasn't so much our ball use in tight it was our failure to to basic team things like block and shepherd for team mates in better positions. Matt Jones, Rohan Bail, Jordie McKenzie and Jack Grimes are constant whipping boys, but they do the team thing which is why they get games. Other more highly praised players are way too selfish - which is to say they try to do too much. Unfortunately it was some of our more experienced players who rather than laying a shepherd for a team mate with the ball ran to receive instead. I think this is probably what Roosy was referring to when he said we need to stop playing as individuals and start playing as a team. If the top up Don's haven't been let into the game plan yet... then it just goes to show you how over rated game plans can be. Get the ball and give it to your team mate in a better position.

And Yet they're talking about potential two year bans for Ryan Crowley and the RL player who tested positive today... hmmm.

One of my workmates made a comment about whether I was upset with Clark's performance. My observation was A) It would be hypocritical if I was considering the circumstances of how the MFC recruited him, B) I'd rather have Lumumba, who has an amazing record for actually getting and staying on the park and C) HL actually offers something to the culture of the club with the way he prepares and trains. Clark brought nothing.

I know people don't like Hutch much, but I did chuckle when he made the comment that Pickers was his manager and that hopefully he keeps him in the loop next time (obviously referring to his DUI)

Yep, straight down to the rooms, my impression was he had concussion and didn't come back on. Hopefully someone can clarify. I assume he'll play next week, I just wanted to see a little more this week, the second half would have been a good opportunity for him.

Not sure, If talls could play like smalls then maybe, but typically they don't. When they say a tall is 'great below their knees' - what they mean is 'great below their knees for a tall'. The Swans have two of the best talls in the business (and one who plays much like a small) but they didn't have the flexibility that Hawthorn did in the GF with their medium talls. I think the standard set up would be for Dawes & Hogan as permanent talls, resting ruck of Pedo or Gawn, with Watts, Kent and Vandenberg rotating as the medium talls Garlett and JKH crumbing and Howe and Frost able to play that swingman role.

I guess many people like me are reading the preseason tealeaves as a portent for the season to come. I've almost given up reading DL for any meaningful insights or rationality - certainly there's no balance. Still If I'm going to have a crack at 'others' I may as well offer a contribution rather than just whinging. Firstly I was heartened that the club did the right thing by its supporters and provided a telecast of the game that I could access (at least the first half - the connection in the second half was very similar to our on field display). I know there are many that have been unhappy with the engagement with the membership of late, but from where I sit at least the club is trying, not always getting it right, but trying. Secondly our on-field performance was definitely a game of two halves. What I liked in the first half (even though at times it seemed like a training drill) was our ability to move the ball quickly by hand. Something that we haven't been able to do for the longest time. Instead of just hand balling under pressure and coughing it up, which has been the norm for too long, we were hand balling in front of the player to run onto rather than at their feet, over their head or behind their back. Once the player hand balled they automatically put on a shepherd. These are football basics, but something we obviously had to relearn. Based on what I saw Garland and Grimes will finish top ten in the B&F if they play like that consistently. Matt Jones I thought was also good in the first half (didn't make any errors that I could see anyway). Tommy Mac and Nev were superb. The midfield kicking wasn't flash, but as Roos said the conditions were difficult. It always seems to be windy in Ballarat. I thought our intensity in the first half was fantastic and actually intimidated the Doggies a bit, - when was the last time we could say that about any Melbourne side? Not so much in the second half, but at least we're raising the bar (previously the difference between our best and worst football was OK to Insipid). Now our best looks a lot better. Hard to gauge what our worst will be like at this stage, but hopefully a damn site better than in the last few years. I doubt we'll see a centre square set up like we had in the last quarter once the real stuff starts. The Bulldogs were missing 5 of their best 7 from their top ten from last year (Griffen, Libba and Crameri were unavailable) we had all 7 of our best 7 from the top ten available (Howe, Vince and Frawley unavailable). So yes the Doggies were inexperienced, but in general I think we found plenty to be excited about into the future. Our recruiting is getting better Frost, Lumumba, Newton, Garlett all look like being in the best 22 and I think we're actually a much better side immediately which takes the pressure of Petracca, Brayshaw and Stretch to adjust to the tempo of league footy rather than throwing them to the wolves to make up the deficit of talent. I was disappointed Vandenberg got injured because I think he's also a smokey for round 1. Tyson, Salem and Toumpas all appear to be improving rather than just plateauing and Hogan just looks like a player (easy to see why there's so much hype - well founded IMO) won't be dominant in 2015, but I can't wait to see what he's doing to opposition team in two years time.

And Carlton won a preseason comp and then finished last. Preseason is just match practice. It gives little real indication of how the following season will pan out once premiership points are on the line.

Yeah, Nah, Maybe. Ross may help a mate out, but only if it coincides with what his club want to do anyway. Could you imagine what they'd do to him if Pav got injured in a match he wasn't scheduled to play in? Freo have the most players over 29 on their list. The WA clubs have always wanted to reduce the amount of travel their players have to do as it has a substantial affect on their bodies - particularly their recovery. Some claim that it actually shortens players careers. Their next match is on the road against Sydney. Pav and McPharlin won't be making that trip if my theory is correct. I'm not sure what the current thinking is, but I would think most clubs would want all their best 22 to have at least one and preferably two matches leading into rd 1.

Thank you, it's posts like yours that make it still worthwhile to read demonland.

BB (or should I say Deefan), I don't think there was any modification to the gameplay per se, just the structure up forward - if that makes sense. I think Roos wanted to see a competitive team, but I'm sure given the nature of these types of games that a three goal loss was neither here nor there (but a ten goal blow out might have been a real concern for both supporters and playing group). There was a quick comment at the start of the game that Melbourne and Freo had both started with a four tall forward line. My impression was that both Roos and Lyon had some conversations about this prior to the game. I think they were both looking at the experimental aspect of the NAB challenge to try to trial some players and develop some added flexibility. Dermott then spoke about Frost being identified as a swingman capable of playing forward and back. Many may only see him as a key back, but his height, athleticism and his speed (I was very impressed at his closing speed when playing in defence) mean that if he can develop his kicking he's the ideal player for both roles (and maybe Oscar Mac too) whereas I think both Col and Tommy Mac have too many limitations to play them in the forward line. I think come the season proper we will see far more of a Hawthorn style conventional forward line with two key talls and a range of smaller players capable of playing through the midfield as well ( Like others I think Vandenberg may well be a seriously good find as a smallish tall/tallish mid if he can build on his debut). Like many I was disappointed by Gawn's game, but having said that I can't believe so many are quick to write him off. At the same age Mark Jamar played 22 games in the 2006 season and couldn't crack a single B&F vote (he wasn't called donuts for nothing). Now I'm not comparing apples and oranges here, I don't think Max will be as good in the ruck (which is the only string to the Russian's bow IMO and contrary to popular belief he is rarely beaten in the ruck contest), but he can still get better. He is actually nearly four inches taller after all. Ruck men take time to develop and I'm bemused that so many supporters now would have Stefan Martin back in a heartbeat when he was a bee's [censored] away from not getting another contract at the Lions. I think Max has far more potential than Stefan (so long as his knees hold out). Anyway I think there was enough to be bullish about from that showing, but only time will tell whether my expectations have been built beyond the ability of the team to perform (which isn't really all that high anyway. 8-10 wins).

Not to mention softening us up by telling us that Hird & Co are good to go for the season instead of receiving the substantial ban they should receive for cheating.

I think the problem both the AFL and hence the players will have is WADA's view on exactly "what" the players thought they were being "secretly" injected with and the nature of their cooperation (which we are yet to really see any evidence of.

Cause we were only doing what we suspected other clubs were doing.... There maybe a very big financial work cover penalty coming there way, and almost certainly some private settlements to sort out (pretty sure the standard player contract doesn't give permission to inject players full of banned substances).

The AFL are between a rock and a hard place here. If as reasonably expected ASADA can establish a case that the EFC instituted a regime of illegally administered supplements then there has to be a significant penalty. This involves not only the standing of the AFL within Australia, but Australia's international sporting image as well. I doubt WADA would accept any sought of leniency on the grounds of expedience for a domestic competition from a club that not only tried to conceal evidence, but instituted legal proceedings on the basis that the competition they were involved in should not be involved in cooperating to find drug cheats. It would not only inflict further reputational damage on an already tarnished image it would serve as absolutely no deterrence to any other club on how to avoid/mitigate their punishment. A six month ban would be a complete blight on the game. I expect the punishment to be harsh for the players and very severe for those that were responsible for the oversight of the program. (perhaps including a lifetime ban)

steroids and EPO. Though performance enhancing is performance enhancing. Happy to be corrected if I've got it wrong, but the code doesn't discriminate in terms of the effectiveness of the substance/s taken.

Interesting that Alex Rodriguez (A Rod) from the New York Yankees is about to return to baseball after serving his 12 months for using performance enhancing drugs. The interesting side note to the story is that A Rod like Essendon obfuscated and held a belligerent line about his wrong doing. He has now written a hand written note to fans asking for forgiveness. He was banned for 162 matches (the entirety of the 2014 season - though this was actually less than the original ruling of 211 matches). While not completely similar it is worth reflecting that A Rod is as big as they come in a given sport. Sports will survive the misdemeanours of individuals (even superstars) and move on, what puts the AFL in a bind is that this wasn't one or two players this was a systematic program implemented by one of their constituent clubs. While the AFL may feel the need to get this over and done with I can't see anything less than a 12 month ban for the players and the removal of those responsible (including: Coach, Doctor, CEO and President - though 2 of those are now gone) from the game.

I think that James Hird and the PM must have taken the same supplements. Deny everything make counter allegations... and what's that over there!!!

I thought I heard Fletcher was one who refused to participate in the program