Jarka

OMFG Green consistenly backs into oncoming packs to take marks. Dude, lay of the moonshine.

Of course CAC isn't solely responsible for us not winning a flag, but equally ridiculous is the pedestal that many here put him on. The facts remain that after having the job for ten years our new coach believes that the squad needs to be rebuilt, now no matter how you sugar coat it that reflects poorly on the recruiting department.

I agree, I'm sort of sad to see him go but I understand why the decision was made. We need a new beginning, we need strogn leadership all over the ground and this is just the first step.

Sorry WJ but that's a crock. This competition is set up so half of the teams play finals, which means a couple of average teams will get the chance. Hardly an achievement. To put it in even more perspective since our embarrasing GF loss in 2000 we have only won two finals games, and one of those victories was against an injury depleted Saints. The rest of our efforts have been dismal - at best. One of the reasons for this is because of a lack of leadership over the last 5 years, when the going gets tough our senior players go missing, and Yze is at the top of the list. Yes he's had a good career and i will celebrate his contribution with all the other supporters but I won't be unhappy when he retires. Playing finals is only half the battle, you have to actually win more than just a couple to be successfull.

To be fair the draft was in it's infacy and the selection process was completely different, for example the u18's didn't even exist and the eagles were excellent at 'hiding' the talent coming throughAlthough the club was doing very well financially not much money was spent on the footy department and virtually nothing on recruiting. Griffith's wouldn't have had a tenth of what CAC has available to him. In 1986 we drafted S.Febey, M.Febey, A.Lovell, C.Walker and Darren Jarman. Those picks are as good a result as we've ever had in a single draft, but just imagine if we managed to talk Jarman into leaving SA. The following year we picked up Andrew Obst and Stephen Tingay. Not bad considering we were playing with peanuts.

Yze has been a good player in the past however he represents everything that has been wrong with the team over the last 7 years. Downhill skier I'd prefer to look to the future, not at the past.

By my calculations he's played 4 seasons. I disagree, he's slow and the only reason why he looked good in our backline last season was because once Rivers got injured we simply didn't have anyone else. In 2004 we got 2 decent games out of him, 2005 was marginally better, 06 was completely underwhelming and 07 was dissappointing considering he's meant to be one of our senior KPP's. Do you honestly believe that his performances are worth the pick that we gave up for him? That's rubbish about the doggies and the hawks, if they were interested then they would have made a play for him when he became available. We were the only one's stupid enough to give up an early 2nd round pick.

I'm unconvinced by this, in reality he's had the job for ten years. He's drafted a whole generation of players and the result is that our new coach reckons we need to rebuild the list around the u23's. Currently we're as far from ultimate success as any other team in the comp.

It's clear that we have a different understanding of what 'very effectively' means. It's without a doubt that Holland wouldn't get a gig with any other club if he was delisted by us.

hmm, let me get this right, Aaron had a wonky knee and shouldn't have been playing. The coach who selected him week after week is now coaching at Carlton. Carlton received the first pick as a PP for losing their last 11 (?) games. Two of those games were against Melbourne. Melbourne missed out on a PP by 1 game. Gee, how happy would Carlton be with a certain ex-Melbourne assistant coach.

I'm pretty sure that CAC had the final say in the drafting of recycled players, but I'd agree with you about the trades. Honestly I only put that #10 in there because there weren't any more low picks that was a failure and I didn't believe that a pick in the 50's and above that didn't work out deserved to be on the list.

1. Luke Molan (pick 9, 2001) 2. Chris Lamb (pick 13, 1998) 3. Nick Smith (pick 15, 2002) 4. Stephen Armstrong (pick 25, 2001) 5. Aaron Rogers (pick 26, 2001) 6. Troy Longmuir (pick 22, 1997) 7. Matthew Blake (pick 39, 1997) 8. Gary Moorcroft (pick 39, 2002) 9. James Cook (pick 3 psd, 2000) 10. Trading early picks for B.Holland & B.Pickett Thought I'd do a reverse top 10, and this just highlights how much CAC has improved when comparing his last 5 years to his first 5. No real wasted picks from 2003 onwards, sue his missed out on some late ones but that's to be expected when you take a gamble with a speculative pick. All the way through though he's been able to pick up very good late picks. One thing I don't understand, if he's been so great then why do we have to rebuild the team around the U23's?

Hannabal, I'm not trying to compare their careers, I just believe that Jakovich was a better player. He was definitely more skilled, hell, alot more skilled, and when fit he influenced games in a way that Neitz could only dream of. His ability to read the play was also far superior. There's no question though that Neitz had the better career because of his longevity. Neitz often played with a very good midfield supplying him. Viney was the last true warrior that the club has had.

fatty, it's just my opinion about Neitz. He's always frustrated me greatly as a player because he can play so well and totally dominate a game for a quarter and then it seems that he'd go back into his shell and go missing for the rest of the game. I still believe that we made a mistake in making him captain, although over the last 5 years we've been completely devoid of mature leaders so he's been our only option. I also believe that our lack of key forwards since Schwartz has overstated his ability. He will be remembered as a great MFC player however he's not a great AFL player, which alot of demon (sorry MELBOURNe fc) fans claim him to bem which is probably the source of my argument.

Neitz is first choice for FF simply not because he's our best player for that position but because we simply have no one else. Are you seriously trying to tell me that you believe that his efforts last year were of a good AFL level? Jakovich (will fit) was an absolute champion and was easily much better than Neitz. He broke the record for the least number of games to a career 50 and 100 goals. Did you actually see him play live?

That's a great quote isn't it? I thik I'm going to love watching this kid play!

I love a good flame but why should I make it easy? I don't believe that he's the best player we've had since '87, in fact I'd rate G.Lyon, T.Viney, J.Stynes, A.Jakovich and J.White higher because of their ability to dominate their respective positions far better than Neitz. In 2007 due to his injuries and age Neitz was virtually a liability to the team, and frankly I'm surprised you didn't pick this up, I thought you knew your footy better than that. Of his 15 games only a third of them did he manage to kick 3 goals and only once did he kick more, 4 in round 9 against the roos. It was actually embarrasing watching him hobble and limp his way to 300 games.

It wasn't my opinion, merely the attitude of the players at the time. Regardless of our views theo x's personality and his playing style drew the other players toward him, they'd be prepared to 'fight in the trenches' alongside him, and from my discussions with some players Neitz has never drawn the same passion from his peers. We've had problems with leadership over the last 5 years, that's also a fact. The player in question has just recently retired.

Great, now I can sleep easier at night Wake me up when you get to the point Let me tell you a story. When Lyon retired and the captaincy became a two horse race between Neitz and Schwartz, the playing group had their own ideas. The general consensus was that they would 'play for Neitz, but we'd die for Schwarter', and that's a direct quote from a since retired MFC player. Neitz' leadership qualities are overrated by people like yourself. There's a difference between complaining and explaining reality to others

Yeah, thanks hards, that was my point.

When was his third AA?

Three AA's...you sure about that? Other than 1995 when did he make All Australian? I know I'm going to cop ALOT of flak over my next comment and I know that Neitz has been a great warrior for us but I truly believe he is the most overrated player we've had in a very long time. He's good, but he simply isn't as good as alot of demon supporters make him out to be. As a forward he's had one very good year and several good ones, but never a great year. Let the flaming begin

Cloke is not really a Key defender, more of a zonal one like Rivers. No point really to have him on our list.

One point about Rance, in an interview with the Richmond recruiting manager he stated that they believed that he wouldn't be available with their second pick so they didn't bother putting too much time into analysing the kid. They also didn't interview him for the same reasons. Now, I don't know about you guys but this smacks major alarm bells, this kid slipped through to basically the second round and was only picked up by a club because they didn't do much groundwork on him. Richmond have basically taken a kid soley on reputation, of course the next question is are they actaully aware of his strengths but most importantly his weaknesses?

I wouldn't change any of the current forwards for Neitz, no way. He's not good enough for the CHB spot which just leaves the bench as a possibility, but even then I'm not sure that he deserves to be in front of any of them. It's all about quality, not just quantity.