deespicable me

11 hours ago, Macca said:

 

This is your better post for mine. I tend to agree there is no particular bias against Melbourne other than what comes from being lowly rated in relevance. The last public outcry that the umpiring needs to be changed and was faulty was of course the Anzac game where Essendon were convinced the umpiring cost them the game. Then of course Essendon officials wanted an explanation over the Rampe decision last week "for the good of the game".

The point in your post I don't accept at all is the bit where you suggest we should just "accept" the umpiring of the game is stuffed and move on.

It is definitely a hard game to officiate but the AFL's and their media channels being virtually banned from commentating on umpiring when it so so so influentual on every games outcome, because it is hard to attract umpires to the sport, means there is very few avenues open to actually improve umpiring. 

There is no doubt in my mind the "rub of the green" was against us on Friday night. I'm all for a thread that discusses the umpires poor form. It gives solace to a loss.

The three of Frawley, Dunne and Howe were good mates and in private conversations amongst themselves I'm sure they worked out the best way to advance their careers was at another club.

Good, solid, loyal players stay and work out how to improve their team or suffer for the cause. 

I include May in that bracket along with Lynch at Richmond and over half the Hawthorn team. Scully is the ultimate mercenary and well hated by most of the football public. 

28 minutes ago, ManDee said:

Hells bells beeb, it's hard enough for some players to remember A & B

Gee, he's only been out of the side one week.

I liked the Wagner boys, Hoare and Hunt in their new roles. I would like all four to be given some time to develop synergy within the team. The Wagner boys are tough, fearless and quick. They tackle well which suits our game plan. I know they are blue collar which means they aren't always AFL standard but given time I think they can hold down positions. Hunt spent last year in the VFL developing his defensive side and is our best small forward at the moment, when you need two or even three in your team.

Where that puts some of the others I'm not sure but stick with those four against smaller forward lines for me.

One of the major problems is that our two main defensive players that we spent lots of money on aren't available at the moment and the two incumbents in Frost and Oscar are looking at downgraded expectations as soon as the other two are ready,

It's not a great plan to "buy into" for those two.

Right guys heres the plan. You go out there and get beat up by Buddy and make sure you fill that hole and hold your ground when Buddys bearing down on you at 100 mph, then when we've got these other two guys up and running we're going to f**ck you off to Casey and then more than likely delist you at years end.

Not a great working environment.

I think we need to look back,,,,,, to go forward... when honorable losses were an art form, web pages were created in honor of Richmonds Jordan McMahon and we could all look forward to juicy "priority picks" and create Messiahs out of young men who hadn't even played a game yet.

Yes lets tank!!!!

12 hours ago, dbj1983 said:

Maybe if the delivery to our forwards was up to AFL standard, we wouldn’t even be talking about him.

None of our forwards have played well in both games. Fix the bigger issue and see if the problem remains.

Goody has some serious quick learning to do before the season is derailed.

 

I agree. It's not just Petracca. Look at Tommy Mac, Weid, ANB. Look at the scoreboard. If we don't get some system down there 25 points in 3 quarters of football won't beat anyone. The only forward playing reasonably well at the moment is Melksham.

A good team with system would simplify the game for Petracca and help him become a very good player, maybe in time a gun. If we are in for a bad year, lets not eat our own.

Oh come on. No last chances for ANB. I've had enough. I'd rather play with 21.

And O'Mac needs to go back to Casey and try and enjoy playing footy. Go for a mark. I've never seen such a defensive mindset in a player. Poor coaching.

17 minutes ago, DV8 said:

In this mindset impatience and despair can become problems for the club/team...   negativeness/fear of loss,  is an infectious disease, that only devours our confidence.

Ommmmmm

3 hours ago, Wrecker45 said:

This is what I have been told by people within the club with much better football analysis skills than me. Apparently Weid can take a mark at the highest point and is a tall player with a leap. This, therefore, theoretically, makes him a unique forward who can break modern zones.

I don't see it. 

Weid was not being served well by our midfield yesterday.

Goodwins game plan is contested ball with plenty of random F50 entries. I don't think this game style suits Weid at all. It suited us with Hogan in the team as we had structure, Hogan had the great presence of a full forward.

In my humble Weid needs to watch tapes of Lloyd from Essendon in his prime and Goodwin needs to change our game plan to suit.

I think Weideman could be elite as a leading full forward if we got a game plan together that stopped bombing the ball in randomly and they worked out leading patterns that freed up space for him to lead into.

I can tell you they don't practice it. 

Went down to training and very pleased to report no new injuries!

Preuss was doing a lot of work with the mids and I would suggest he is in strong consideration for Saturdays game. Didn't look hindered and trained the whole session.

Players "next in line"

KK. He was in the midfield group and another who trained the whole session and looked good. They trialled him on the wing in their midfield "plays". Really think he can add something when he is right to go.

Baker. Another who they trialled on the wing in the midfield plays. Looking forward to a good year from him, he is another who has a lot of upside and is close to selection

Sparrow. Last time I went along to training I wondered what all the fuss was about with him but after a taste in the pre-season you can see he has come along very nicely in the last few weeks. They have him in the middle mixing with Oliver, Gus, Viney and the likes and he looks like he will be equally as good in a year or two. He finished off slamming goals from outside 50. Massive boot, he looks the goods.

Watched Gus for a while and if he was a racehorse you would say he is a lazy track-worker, he rarely stands out and as some of the young guns want to show off and impress and have a laugh Gus was just doing what he had to to get through. I think he might have his sights firmly set on Saturday.

Melksham looked tired. Really wanted to see him as he is so important to us but he didn't overly involve himself. Don't know why and I'm sure it was nothing but I hope he fires up on Saturday.

Don't give up yet, we can still get there. 

I would just like to add my vote of disapproval to the umpiring today.

A good game ruined.

Three free kicks to the All-Stars directly in front says it all.

If we get some sweet favors in the second half we can still win

I went along today. Lovely day and a good session to see as they were starting a bit of game simulation and there was plenty going on.

Just a couple of points to offer from limited viewing. 

One is that last year I thought we had the list in pretty good shape so I was surprised at how much we cut into the list. I thought we might just do the obligatory 3 or 4 changes but we did a lot more and it shows on the park. The newbies are all small to medium players apart of course from May and Preust and they are as keen as to make an impression. It looks to have regenerated the group a bit and with Oliver, Gus, Viney and Jones on the sidelines there was a freshness that I think is good for us. We looked young and hungry and I'm pretty sure the coaches are creating an atmosphere where positions are up for grabs and anything is possible. So I also saw the contested mark of KK and he also did another nice piece of play at half back from contested to delivery upfield that was impressive. I also saw Nietsche (No. 27 the philosopher) do a couple of nice things. Bedford is busy and was involved a lot as well. The intensity was good and I think the youngsters contributed a lot to that.

The second thing I noticed was Vanders. He looked fantastic. He was in rehab with Gus and Stretch and clearly they are close to returning to the main group as they were doing contested stuff one on one and there were no holds barred. All three were going well, Billy is tracking very well but Vanders was excellent. They were one on one just holding and jostling until the attacker made a lead and one of the coaches Rooke kicked to the lead. Vanders marked most everything under good pressure and defensively was strong and aggressive and shut down his opponent. At one stage he spoiled Gus and took him to ground, it was strong play. He is clearly a leader and looks very focused, driven and I'd say as fit as he's ever been. I'm so glad he stayed with us and I reckon he could be a great player for us this year.

Just on the rehab group or groups, in making your way back to the main group you work very hard, harder than if you are in the main group itself. So even though most of the players in re-hab could easily join in the pace of the main group it is never gifted and you have to tick every box before they will let you back.Finally one of those guys Jack Viney is looking fantastic as well. He was charging around the boundary and while he would hardly blow out a candle Baker was totally gassed. Jack is another right on track for a massive year.

I liked Burgo a lot even though he was a bit lightweight but that was a pretty good interview

Are the rucks part of the midfield? If they are Richmonds back up ruck is non-existent. With the new rule of the ruckman being able to grab the ball out of the ruck Grigg is not an option anymore. It's quite a rule change. Obviously Martin is class and Cotchin and Prestia very good but their lack of a back-up to the bullocking but limited Nankervis means they can't be ranked ahead of West Coast. 

• A ruckman who takes direct possession of the ball from a bounce, throw-up or boundary throw-in will no longer be regarded as having had prior opportunity.

Every time Grigg is in the ruck the opposition will just take possession and hand ball to their midfrield. Maybe Lynch will have to ruck more often. Ha, a multi million dollar back-up ruck.

The "Preuss insurance policy" is a good one to have as I think there are more than one area he can help us get better. The obvious is as a back up to Max and a training partner to help improve Max, but with Hoges going as well there is a lot of pressure on TMac and a still young Weideman to deliver in the forward line. I think playing Preuss as a ruck/forward could help our forward structure a lot. He will make Weideman a better player with his physical presence, we become more flexible and unpredictable with our forward structures and more consistent in the ruck and harder to match up on. Imagine Preuss versus Grigg!

I don't think we'll necessarily play three talls in our forward line every week, but there is certainly a lot of sense in recruiting him, and you'd have to think he has been promised games. With the addition of Pruess and May we may be the equal of West Coast who would probably have been considered the best tall team in 2018. Add that to our rising midfield and I can understand our "champion data" rating as a very strong "on paper" team heading into 2019.

I hope the plans pay off.

8 hours ago, ChaserJ said:

Tend to agree, although I think Tyson's spot is there for the taking. One of Kolodjashnij or Hunt could step straight in, but Wagner could keep them honest.  Probably better suited to that role than Tyson in a direct comparison.

Got to add Billy Stretch to that list, I think if he is over his navicular problem he will probably get first crack and I also think/hope Baker may push for a spot this year. I liked Corey whenever I got to see Casey, he is probably behind a few but agree he will offer genuine competition for a spot.

2 hours ago, Jibroni said:

Only 5 months to wait

4 hours ago, spirit of norm smith said:

Welcome back Jack

Somehow I don't think the first round can come quick enough for Wattsy

8 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

A big problem I think in all of this is folk isolate a player and then somehow attempt a valuation.

I see it differently.. Hogan is a forward...May is a back.  I think we can all at least agree upon that.

Here's where I diverge from the groupthink model.   I see it as a comparison of effects.

What does May added to our back arc do as compared Hogan being in the front arc ?

Add May to Lever, Hibberd , Jetta, Oscar  and say Salem...  thats formidable...take out May...not so much...as dynamic reverts back to before...somewhat problematic

Hogan in the fwd 50 with Tmac , Milkshake, Trac...any of Spargo... VDB  etc etc...is also quite effective.

Take out Hogan...put in Weed...or someone else..its still reasonably effective, and possibly not so mono-centric in nature  of attack.

So for mine the impact of May in far outweighs Hogan leaving

Have a suspicion out FD sees it similarly.

Yeah sure, all this is accepted by most, they see the Hogan out May in scenario loud and clear.

What people aren't so sure about is the trading out of a potential champion of the game, a Brereton or a Carey for a bloke who has shown his full potential and sure we can build a defence around him but he won't finish his career as a champ of the game.

Also sure you have to give up something significant to get something that you need but look at Richmond getting in Lynch. We give up two first round picks for Lever, I think we just want very fair at worst compensation for Hogan, if not overs. Or don't do the bl@@dy trade!

If Hogan doesn't go this year I would think he won't go there (to freo) for quite a while. He has ummed and ahhhhed about moving home and really when you look at it I think he thought he might get on a good contract and be on easy street for the rest of his career.

I reckon this is a good thing, He might just dust himself off and having come so close to the crap of off-season moves re-focus and get stuck in.

If this deal doesn't go through (and I hope it doesn't) we may see clear air with Jesse, not the "will he won't he" scenario some posters are afraid of.

Hold out, hold out.

Long time reader first time poster on this subject and most every twist and opinion has been canvassed.

My only point I would like to add to the discussion is we should never lose sight of the fact as to how good Hogan may yet become.

I think this trade is short sighted. Looking to build a side to win the flag in 2019. And that is fair enough. But if WC get Kelly from Geelong they will be the team to beat. And if we don't win the 2019 flag we could rue our decision to trade out Hogan.

Remember he hasn't yet committed to the whole idea of playing professional football. If he does when he turns 26 he will be a superstar. We are being short-sighted.

I really hope he stays.

1 hour ago, Dappa Dan said:

We could potentially end up with 5 and pick 1 next year. But is pick 1 next year better than pick 6 in a superdraft?

Pick 1 next year is a great bargaining tool, think Kelly from GWS, so this years pick 5 and next years pick 1 would be a great trade for us if that was the scenario that played out.

1 minute ago, trout said:

What’s even more staggering is the CH7 commentators haven’t noticed the umpiring.

It's unbelievable. It's just so obvious the umpire influence on the game and not a thing. 

Worst umpiring I think I've seen in a long time.