deespicable me

Well call me a conspiracy theorist, but I've got a theory that this is orchestrated.

You need an excuse to rest someone otherwise you're disrespecting your opponent

Max may not be sore, he may just have lost confidence by giving Jacko too much time at the centre bounces. We got smashed in the clearances, especially when Max was in there, so give him a bigger responsibility. He's been working with Yze and Viney to fix up the clearances and needs time in the middle to sort things out.

Everybody has been wanting Weidemann back in the side and yet Ben Brown needs time in there as well to get match fitness and start gelling with the forward entries. BB out for the Weid is not a good move, this allows Weid back in and  takes the pressure off the call for BB out.

Jacko is young and will only benefit from a couple of weeks off and while we will miss him, the leaders who make the calls and keep structures etc are still out there.

As a conspiracy theorist Its a win, win, win so I have to consider it. I hope if it is the case it doesn't backfire.

There's also a bit of luck. Tom Mac was so good on Saturday night. We handled it well. Goody handled it well. That is obvious by allowing him his chance to prove us wrong without any ill feeling. I had him done. A lot of us did for sure.

He kicked 2 massive goals on Saturday night. They were great. I felt so good for him. He was so happy.

Even after being 9-0 in 2016 North were not considered a premiership contender, they were still about 10-1 to win  the flag and about 4th favorite. Most predicted a drop off and weren't surprised when it came.

Our aim is to finish top 4. So we have to beat the teams around us. Having wins against Richmond, Geelong and Swans are important. Last Saturday nights win was super important. If Swans won its 28 points to us and 24 points to them and they can replace us in the top 4 at some stage. Having won and now being 12 points ahead of the Swans gives us a chance to hold them off in the run home.

A problem for us though is our inability to get an easy win. A kill. Most good teams of the last 20 years had the ability to kill off the contest quickly and then could cruise through a few games. All our games the opposition were well in the game and in many cases ahead. It's good that we found a way to win but we looked cooked in the 4th quarter on Saturday night. The next part of our maturity as a football side is learning how to dominate. If we can't start putting games to bed earlier, we will almost certainly tire and drop off.

12 hours ago, jnrmac said:

So its a free shot on Gawn every single week. They cannon into his back punch him in the back of the head and pile on to him when on the ground.

 

PLay on. No frees, no fines.

 

BS

I'm still non-plussed that Nankervis can come up behind Max off the ball and whacked him in the back while Gawn is unaware and knocks him to the ground. No free, no fine, nothing. Kharma at least caught up with Edwards for raising his elbow and cleaning up Oliver. Suck eggs on your 8 weeks off Edwards.

Are North Melbourne aware that he flops?

Listened to Whateley interview Sam Mitchell today on SEN and eventually after all the adds it was a great interview, with an insight into Sam Mitchell coaching the Box Hill Hawks etc. He along with maybe Yze are the two most likely untried coaches in waiting. It made the constant advertising they subject you to almost worth it.

On the other hand after 7 minutes of mind numbing adds in the afternoon they come back to Maher and Murphy and I want the adds to come back on. Why do Whateley and Murphy team up with such dollops? Murphy had so much credibility before he put money and security in front of being listenable. Now he's just a lazy bloke making up lists with a sycophantic [censored].

Bloody Melbourne media. What happened to quality control.

Hi, just in light of Steven May getting two weeks a year or so ago for standing still, not moving and a player running into him, I'm just wondering how many weeks Edwards should get for lining up Oliver, who had to go off for 10 minutes or so, and raising the shoulder in a deliberate act to hurt Oliver.

Also did anyone see the dog act by Nankervis on Gawn. Off the ball, ran straight into Gawns back, knocking him over and giving him a whiplash type injury, again we are very lucky Gawn shrugged it off but surely Nankervis has a case to answer.

Both acts of thuggery that certainly in Edwards case deserve weeks.

Did others see and agree.

1 minute ago, titan_uranus said:

Tonight's not the time for the debate, but the question is whether we're getting what we need from Melksham.

Another option is to push TMac up the ground (e.g. replacing Jones) and bring Brown into TMac's forward 50 spot.

These are good, but tough, issues to have to address.

I watched a bit of the Freo/ North game tonight and Zeibel was good off half back. Melksham would be the perfect fit to play the forward negating role on him.

I think a couple of players that you could do comparisons to, are Bontempelli and Adam Goodes. Both are tall, athletic utilities who can play ruck, forward or midfield. Both are/were superstars. Goodes became more a forward towards the end of his career but was used in a variety of positions as the team needed. Bont is similar, not as much a ruck but has taken many ruck taps in the forward line. Bontempelli is only developing now into a very dangerous forward.

Both players are premiership players.

I think Jackson has the same scope as these two players and definitely the potential to become a superstar and play wherever the team needs.   

1 hour ago, DubDee said:

But isn’t it legal to bump a player shoulder to shoulder? Forgive my naivity here, not my wheelhouse.
So he is not guilty of the act, just the outcome as they incidentally clashed heads?

No, some people are missing the fact that the Crows player had handpassed the ball. Dangerfield was late, the ball was gone. If he still had the ball at impact it becomes a different argument. He was concentrating on giving off a handball and was open when Dangerfield cleaned him up. Late. He has to take responsibility for that. It moves from accidental, towards it being a vicious act. You can argue that its not in Dangerfields nature but he chose to do it and didn't execute within the rules of the game. He has to take responsibility for that. 

Jackson, Rivers, Kossie, along with Jordan and Sparrow. 

Pretty good crew of youngsters.

He's a gun and as have everyone on here has done we have enjoyed every one of his 100 games.

I don't need Robbo to tell me he's good. He can kneel down and slobber all over the Dusty Martin statue he's put up in his backyard.

What did he have Oliver ranked at again?

I am really looking forward to watching what Jackson can do. He is a top rising star candidate ( if eligible) and I am hopeful he is our "Bontempelli". His upside is enormous. Mind you he could take another year or two to develop but I'm hoping it's this year he shows his talent.

My whipping boy candidate is Gus. He has shown he has good talent but the penny hasn't dropped yet as to how hard you have to work to achieve your goals. From listening to him on the podcast I think he believes he has already made it and is one of the top players in the game. He is not. He could be. I think his 3rd placing in the Brownlow was a setback for Gus. We are getting impatient for him to play good consistent football week in week out.

50 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

They took 'Side-by-Side' off their website before trade week but not sure when exactly.  Since the change the website has shown  'Made by Many' as their mantra/motto, which seems a bit meaningless for a football club.  Sounds a bit too abstract for the typical Pies supporter.

It's interesting but a few on here are showing the same instincts as the racist attitudes that the report is trying to recognize and change. To label Collingwood supporters in such a manner has the same roots as racism. And before anyone gets too excited I do the same myself. 

I sort of stopped labelling people when I got sick of the "get in your Range Rover and head off to the snow" comments. But I love the comedy that belittles the typical pies supporter so it's hard to change but I'm pretty sure it's the comedy and throw away lines that the indigenous players are sick off.

Probably won't peak for another season or two as he hasn't built enough strength into his body yet. He is still too easily bodied out of contests. But with three tall options and some smarts around playing decoy and sheparding for one another and leading patterns he can definitely be part of a functioning forward line. 

As for Brown he was an Apex predator in the classic full forward role of Carey and Lockett. Weids is not an Apex personality, he is more similar in personality to a Matthew Lloyd. Lloyd was under a master coach. Weids desperately needs good coaching. 

I think they might be towing Eddies boat. 

Think about it, Collingwood have a horrible trade period and stink it up especially with their emotional fans.

How do we get the fans back on board? Give them a big fish.

Combined with the fact the show is seriously pukable material. They were vaguely funny with Dr Turf who sacked them. It is an atroscious show. Pickering is a creep. Hutchy is a fruit loop of a bloke. How do they increase relevance? Give them a big fish.

2 hours ago, Roger Mellie said:

Don't see it myself. Other than appearance, (size and hair) they strike me as quite different in playing style.

He reminds me of a player for us we took at 5 or 3, Colin Sylvia was the other, and then he went to Carlton and put us in for tanking. Laurie looks slow with those chunky legs but doesn't mean he can't play at the top level, but probably best suited inside mid which I'm not sure we're after.

I really liked the tape of Perkins, Where is he likely to go?

Interesting situation.

TMac would be a proud bloke and probably extremely upset and embarrassed by the situation. It's one thing to think you're not being used properly by the coach or the game plan is stupid or you are far better than your output might indicate but when the whole football world doesn't rate you it would be a harsh / bitter pill to swallow. It is definately not the way he would like to end his career.

He has one chance now to work his butt off and get back into the top 22 and contribute and earn not only his salary but the respect of his peers and the wider football world. The danger for the club is having a sad sack roaming the coridoors and bringing the standards and feeling of success down. Its hard to ask a player to put their body on the line when theres a bloke on the sidelines earning a shirtload and contributing nothing. One of the first things Roos did when he arrived at the club was demand the biggest contribution from the clubs highest paid players. Same with Harmes. No use on the sidelines. Just creates unrest.

In fact it may be cancerous. I wouldn't be surprised if he wasn't paid out. The club must give these players a role or get rid of them, nothing else can work. They must contribute.

I think Mahoney has done reasonably well.

His big task now is to reduce our wasted money by trading out TMac and any other mid category contracts with players  that are'nt playing top 26 football.

As seen with Collingwood and Grundy, De Goey and Treloar its not hard to get bogged down in player payments. How do Collingwood improve their list? They have to get money off their books before they can look at bringing anyone in.

We have some difficult contracts coming up, and trying to keep our talent together won't be easy, for us to have the ability to bring in Brown on a mid-high pay packet means Mahoney and his team must be doing a reasonable job. But his head will swing if we get into a Collingwood type scenario trying to keep our talent. There are problems in our payment structure ( TMac and Harmes and maybe others ) but up to and including this off season he has done a good job, he just needs to get Toms money off our books and move onto securing the likes of Trac and Clarrie  for their next contracts.

I don't think we have the money. Menegola is a very good footballer and a great wingman, exactly what we need, but either way it would be nice to see one of the Cats good players leaving.

4 hours ago, Better days ahead said:

It’s impossible to ensure equality of outcome. No matter how much you attempt to equalise the better operators will always rise to the top. Too much engineering just dis-incentivises the good teams for being well run. That road leads to lada’s. I think your suggestions penalise successful teams too much. I'd leave the system as is.

There is no reason why the MFC can’t be successful within the current framework. We carry the name of the city we hail from, play at the G, have a large latent following (see crowd numbers at the 2018 finals games) and for the time being at least are financially secure. We have talented top end players. A good trade period to address needs and we’re in the reckoning for Top 4.

It’s not that long ago that Richmond were a rabble. There’s hope for us.

I do agree we can be successful, but ours is like the Bulldogs, it will be an outlier, a once off, hard to maintain for the very reason others have made clear (stadium, lifestyle and success over money). But the thing that is a worry and not right is the probability that Geelong finish at least top two and have an era of success, as much as any Melbourne supporter or at least 10 other clubs would love to see and then after that they go into 2021 STRONGER.

That's wrong. I understand it's important to incentivise clubs and give them something to work for but the fact Geelong enter the next season even stronger than their successful 2020 campaign is a complete disincentive to every club below about 6th. Supporters are an optimistic bunch but geez that is just wrong. The very system that was set up to equalize the competition is being manipulated to create a constant outcome that nobody except Geelong supporters want to see.

51 minutes ago, D4Life said:

Respect Wells obviously excellent recruiter!

Cats have major salary cap advantage, probably 20% - 40% house pricing plus lifestyle.

Add huge home ground advantage, should almost never miss finals!

They don't. They are the team that have avoided the bottom 4 the longest.

I have this argument all the time with people and generally lose, but most team sports have a few dominant teams and the rest make up the numbers. There are clubs that develop talent only for the bigger clubs to pay massive salaries to bring them across and continue to rule the competition.

The AFL has some rules in place to keep this in check which is good and may be as good as it gets. Some people already complain at the equalisation structures the AFL already has in place. It's not easy for the AFL to come out and say they will be continually interfering with the draft or free agency in order to make it harder for the top teams to stay at the top and to constantly look to get the bottom sides back up the ladder. It would be political suicide though, they would get undermined and voted out by the stronger clubs. Also the majority of people don't want it because the majority of people barrack for the top teams. 

I still maintain that its not just talent that keeps the top teams up the top but development of the talent, retention of good players, well structured playing lists on well structured pay that is equitable to talent and output. 

There is a myriad of ways the AFL can [censored] clubs that are successful.

Lets say the top 2 can't get in top talent without at least paying some sort of penalty . So for Geelong they can get Cameron but they have to pay overs in their salary cap. ie 10% so if they pick up Cameron and pay him $700,000 a year then given they are a top team their salary cap reflects a yearly cost of $770,000. Or the opposite. If a bottom club persuades Cameron to come and play for them and has to pay him $1,000,000 a year they get a reduction of 10% only reflecting a payment of $900,000 in their salary cap.

I believe the draft should be much further skewed towards the bottom teams. The top teams have great players who are very handy at developing talent both on field and as future father/sons, so arguably they don't need the ready made players. Imagine if Geelong had our recruits Jackson, Kossie and Rivers. They would be future champions of the game. It is certainly no guarantee of that happening at Melbourne. So the top two teams should be locked out of the first round and their first pick should maybe be around pick 27 or so. The bottom team might already be getting 2 picks say 1 and 16 before some of the top teams have even had a pick. This at least gives the supporters of lowly clubs some hope, as we know. But if Geelong win the premiership and then on top of that have the best off season recruiting as well I can only suggest the system even with its equalisation triggers in place, hasn't gone far enough. 

They can paint it any way they like, but thinking about supporters of these two teams sitting around gorging on another feast of wins and silverware, well fair dinkum, it's just not sport. Boring!

One of the main reasons Nev only got a few games this year was his concussion issues. He was getting more reckless with his attack on the ball and the man and getting injured about every third game (as an estimate). The last time which was in the second or third last round (I think) I couldn't help but think he needed to make the sort of decision in his life that is very hard to make, that of taking care of his long term health and his young family and bowing out. He is only one concussion away from becoming another statistic in long term damage tragedies.

I think it is possibly irresponsible of both clubs to continue his career beyond his current contract given Nev's circumstances. 

I will say I am no doctor and these thoughts are only from watching Nev over his career, as a brave warrior for our club. But if Melbourne know Nev has these sort of issues they should make it clear to Nev and Collingwood that we aren't happy and steps should be taken to support Nev in another way without putting his long term health at risk. He's got a son or two that have the "devil" in them and I want to see Nev watching his kids grow into champs playing for the Red and Blue in the future.

Whatever Nev decides I couldn't give a stuff about draft picks. I just hope it is the right decision for Nev and his family.

Yeah happy to be labelled a hater here, got too hard and he ran away.

Of low character in my harsh opinion

12 minutes ago, picket fence said:

A good mate of mine who played 200 odd games of VFL/AFL made an "Astute" observation to me on the phone the other night.

He said he detected a noticeable increase in Clayton Olivers decision making at around the half way part of the season. In essence he believes he made much better decisive decisions to Accelerate out of the packs rather than the obligatory dishoff handball. He believes Clayton Olivers peripheral vision to be as good as ANY in the game and a key factor in his split second footy nous. Now yes I know some of his handballs have been erroneous but the other aspect that my mate suggested is that too many teammates are standing flat footed instead of being as aware as they should be.

Interesting stuff! He also said put Oliver in a top 4 side and he stressed top 4 and he said he would become Extremely elite and win a Brownlow!

Totally agree. He is now ready to become a man. Like Trac did this year, I believe he can be top ten in the comp in the next year or two. I know Trac took a year longer than many hoped and hopefully Clayton can do it next year and we are the top 4 side your mate is talking about.