ManDee

Too much red meat?

I have been to matches and have come away thinking X was the best player on the ground, only to hear on the way home X was playing on Y and Y had 45 disposals and kicked 4 goals. All a matter of perspective I suppose.

I thought you were going to say you could remember Newtown when it was.

And TDI. Variety is the spice of life, I enjoy reading all the reports and accept them for what they are, opinions. It would be a boring world if we all agreed on everything. Kudos to all reports.

On topic please guys this is a footy forum, oh, that is footy sorry carry on. Go Cronulla. Sounds weird. Glad to hear your kids are playing footy in Sydney.

I can't even see the last one.

Nice work UB. "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." Edmund Burke Boycotts can work, I boycott EFC sponsors and have told them (the sponsors). I like the idea of boycotting their games.

For the first 2 numbers in tattslotto.....zip. For the first two in deelotto....zip. Keep up the good work.

Reality check. They kept no records! If this does not scream out, we are breaking the rules and trying to hide it. Then nothing does. The club is guilty, only feats of magic and illusion can spare the players. I do not think it possible to gather a group of 42 men, tell them we are embarking on a program of improvement that is close to the edge of legality. Have 8 pull out of the program, why? And no one check for themselves if it really was OK I want to know why 8 players pulled out. Did they check the legality? If so did they discuss this with teammates? Too many questions, no innocent answers. All I see is a recreation of the Titanic disaster set in a football team. I think all the players were informed about what they were taking. I think they were told it was leading edge stuff on the border of legality. I think 8 chose to inquire further and opted out. The remaining 34 put their trust in their club. I think the club has breached it duty of care. I think the club and the players are guilty. NB: Attempting to cheat is cheating.

Brilliant, unfortunately you may be correct. Pragmatic crooks, you can hate them but sometimes you have to admire them.

Yes I was being dramatic. But if the players successfully argued that they were duped it could only be by Essendon and their agents. If that is the case rule 8 still applies and the club must be penalised, plus litigation opens up from the players against the club. Either way rule 8 will kill Essendon in my opinion. I can see Essendon being dissolved and a new legal entity being created in its place, The Bombers Football Club for instance.

All along I have said I think the players are guilty. I have tried to look for any way they they could get off. Playing the devils advocate I have suggested a possibility. I do not think for a minute that the players are innocent. The point of my hypothesis was that the only realistic way that I can imagine the players get off is to put the total blame at the feet of Essendon et al. For Essendon to get the players off they would have to admit full fault through deception. An Essendon mea culpa is not going to happen.

JBurger, the players are responsible no doubt. But there are provisions to allow for things like an unconscious player being administered a PED in an emergency situation. This would be very rare and would not apply to the organised pharmacological experiment that was Essendon, but it is possible. The Essendon players have no such argument. Conscious injection or ingestion would negate most arguments regarding being duped in an ongoing manner such as Essendon. Another possibility I presume would be to argue that a complex program of misinformation involving doctors, managers and trusted confidants all conspired to mislead the players. This is very unlikely but possible in that it may proved wiggle room for the players, if taken it would be a fatal blow to the EFC.

It is a possibility, highly unlikely but a possibility. Perhaps large amounts of money could persuade a soon to be retired Doctor or two to help the players. An Essendon Toll fund perhaps? No it won't happen, guilty guilty guilty. For $10,000,000 I will say it was all my fault. How much would it take for Hird to fess up?

Essendon are guilty of breaching rule 8 from ASADA 8. Administration or attempted administration to any athlete in-competition of any prohibited method or prohibited substance, or administration or attempted administration to any athlete out-of-competition of any prohibited method or any prohibited substance that is prohibited out-of-competition, or assisting, encouraging, aiding, abetting, covering up or any other type of complicity involving an Anti-Doping Rule Violation or any attempted Anti-Doping Rule Violation. I think there is little doubt that Essendon are guilty of breaching the code, rule 8. That does not automatically imply guilt on the players. Yes they are responsible for everything that enters their bodies but in a scenario where players were advised by medical professionals and all levels of their club that everything was ok, then it may be possible. Don't get me wrong I think the players are guilty, I am merely stating a possibilty. My hypothesis was based on the players potentially arguing successfully that they were duped. Edit : added successfully to last sentence.

JD I did not say they were innocent, merely found not guilty of attempting to take PED's. What I did not clarify was the finding being based on them successfully arguing that they were duped by the club. If that were the case then I would expect the club to be banned. I am hypothesizing, but I imagine it is a possible outcome. And one that many would accept.

Just thinking out loud here (albeit in print) if the players argue successfully that they did not attempt to take PED's and that they are gullible innocents (which I doubt) and miraculously get off, can a more severe penalty be applied to the club? ie 2 years ban for the club or better still 2 years ban for the club for each breach. I think if the players get off the club should face a more severe penalty as they are then more guilty if you know what I mean.

I hope he knows their names, he will by the end of the year on last nights effort.

Looks like 2 of a kind, Nixon grilling Hird. Edit: Richard not Ricky, could be Ricky?

It is a painful condition...... apparently.

Very hard to prove innocence SPR. Generally being in another country at the time of offence may help but not necessarily. Being not guilty does not prove innocence.

That wasn't a shot, that was merely removing the tarp from the cannon.

Rosie Huntington is that really you?

I think you are looking at a photo of her boyfriend.

It seems to take about 10 years, my Richmond supporting 1st son (the throwback) was wearing MFC gear until then, sadly he is lost. 2nd son is supporter when in the country. I think singing "its a grand old flag" every morning to wake them up may have driven him away. Keep up the good work.