What we are seeing at the moment is the draft system at work. In terms of playing finals we have been one of the more successful Victorian teams of the past 15 - 20 years, albeit no premiership and a loss of draft picks around 1999 (forget the exact year).

What is happening now was always going to happen just a matter of time. Sooner or later the better players slow up and unless you have real luck with drafting with inferior picks you eventually hit the bottom.

Whether it is good management or good luck we appear to have bottomed at the right time - so it was wise to delist our depth players rather than hang on and get a few wins and inferior draft picks - we just have to be patient. Three top 20 picks in 2007 (TJ traded), Should get another 3 top 20 this year and perhaps another reasonable pick in 2009 before the new teams soak up all the good kids.

We look like getting Natanui who is tipped to be a beauty and with luck we may get a few who turn out A grade.

So if we get our drafting right we should be pretty good by 2011.

We already have some talented young players on our list so the upcoming draft(s) should be interesting.

i heard that in 2001, 2003 and many other years. I hope you are right.

Yes, but you really need at least 2 years of good draft picks in a row to make a big difference - and of course use them well.

I agree.

Arguably when Neitz, White, Yze, TJ, Robbo and Brown were at their peak, we challenged the top 4. Atm, we don't have near the quality to match what we had. Bruce, Green, McDonald, etc. are decent players but not good enough to be the team's best.

In 3-4 years time, the likes of McLean, Jones, Davey, Rivers, Moloney and Sylvia should all be at their peak, whilst our new draftees should be developing into really good players. We will challenge top 4 again then.

I agree.

Arguably when Neitz, White, Yze, TJ, Robbo and Brown were at their peak, we challenged the top 4. Atm, we don't have near the quality to match what we had. Bruce, Green, McDonald, etc. are decent players but not good enough to be the team's best.

In 3-4 years time, the likes of McLean, Jones, Davey, Rivers, Moloney and Sylvia should all be at their peak, whilst our new draftees should be developing into really good players. We will challenge top 4 again then.

If the bolded were spine players id feel more confident, our lack of a young KPP forward with a bright future and a couple of years of development under his belt will be our major weakness assuming we dont screw the pooch and actually do a rebuild properly.

Im not sure having Robbo & Miller down forward is going to help us long term, throw Cale Morton at FF for the rest of the year, see if we can develop a player with gun skills and speed into someone that knows when to lead.. as his body develops might be the answer... but if we're asking a KPP picked up in 2008 to give us top 4 possibility in 2011, he'd need to be the next Buddy Franklin or Tom Hawkins, if we wait until 2009/2010 draft to finally secure a CHF/FF that can tear a game apart 2012-2013 at the earliest before we can challenge...

our future midfield is as follows

centre line: Morton Grimes Sylvia

Foll: Natanui Jones Mclean

bench: buckley, valenti

and also whoever i missed

our future midfield is as follows

centre line: Morton Grimes Sylvia

Foll: Natanui Jones Mclean

bench: buckley, valenti

and also whoever i missed

Sounds good, i hope they can kick goals too

In 3-4 years time, the likes of McLean, Jones, Davey, Rivers, Moloney and Sylvia should all be at their peak, whilst our new draftees should be developing into really good players. We will challenge top 4 again then.

Every side could say that.

Hawthorn will have Mitchell, Franklin, Hodge, Thorp, Roughead etc hitting their peak.

Brisbane will have Adcock, Clark, Leuenberger, Proud, Stiller, Sherman, Henderson etc hitting their peak.

Carlton will have Gibbs, Murphy, Walker, Kruizer, and Waite hitting their peak.

Collingwood will have Brown, Clarke, Reid, Shaw, Thomas, Pendlebury Goldsack etc hitting their peak.

Essendon have Gumbleton, Houli, Ryder, Myers, Stanton etc.

West Coast will have Ebert, McKinley, Masten, Jones, Glass etc.

etc etc

Every side has good players hitting their peak in 3-4 years. 12 sides have to finish outside the top 4.

THe writing was on the wall for this list last year. They we average, and a new coach and some fresh faces was not going to take this list anywhere soon. We do have a good bunch of kids, and I would say most clubs do. I would say we would be one of the more fortunate clubs in the fact that many of our up and comers look like solid sorts. Over the past few drafts, most picks have shown us that they will be around for some time. Some (jones, morton and mclean) look like stars in the making. We have not had any early dud picks (dont see any Aaron Fioras on our list), and could look to build through the next draft.

If we could land a genuine superstar or two in the next draft (Naita could be one given the press on this kid, he sounds like the Michael Jordan of the AFL....and hasn't even been drafted yet).

Going to be a tough ride, we bottomed out at a GREAT time, after this next draft we should have enough quality kids to start building around next season.

We should also go after Ben Cousins this year

We should also go after Ben Cousins this year

I agree about Cousins. He would add some class and grunt to the midfield - and his diosposal is good.

Can we pick him up at No. 1 IN THE PRESEASON draft???? If we do not pick him up someone else will andwe will have plenty of room in the CAP.

We are running out of 'guns'. Remember when Neitz was double or tripple teamed and Ooze was really magic. Those days are gone so we are rebuilding..

We won't make the finals for a long time IMO. We have NO KPP coming through Sandy apart from Juice and he is no certainty.

Our recruiter has consistently picked the wrong players and it will mean that players like McLean, Sylvia, Jones, Bell, Buckley, Moloney, Bartram, Bate, Morton, Petterd, Grimes and Maric will never win a premiership because they have noone to kick the ball to.

As far as I'm concerned we went the wrong way a while back when we would continue picking midfielders ahead of KPP in the draft and seeing as talls take longer to develop, it is silly to choose smalls first.

Hawthorn went about it correctly selecting Roughead, Franklin, Boyle, Bailey, Thorp and Taylor and build a team around them with the likes of Lewis, Ladson, Birchall, Hodge and Young

As far as I'm concerned we went the wrong way a while back when we would continue picking midfielders ahead of KPP in the draft and seeing as talls take longer to develop, it is silly to choose smalls first.

Hawthorn went about it correctly selecting Roughead, Franklin, Boyle, Bailey, Thorp and Taylor and build a team around them with the likes of Lewis, Ladson, Birchall, Hodge and Young

I have been saying this for a couple of years now...

By the time we recruit 4 KP players, plus 3-4 rotation players, and by the time they are blooded, it will be at LEAST 5 years from now. Probably more given our KP player record. By which time McLean will be approaching 30.

I heard an interview by Jason Dunstall where he owned up to the Hawks recruiting method. They had identified that in the couple of years before the Roughead/Franklin year and the couple of years following the same year there weren't any really genuine KP prospects. They knew if they could take them both they would have a monopoly on good KP players around the right age come late 2000s... That's exactly what has happened...

The demons, in return, took Bate who is ok, Dunn who is yet to do anything, and Newton who is as much a chance of being delisted as taking his place at FF...

By the time we work this problem out, we will have to recruit a bunch of new McLeans, Moloneys, Sylvias....

There is one thing though. CAC always said he'd take the best available at the early end of the draft. That means most of the time that you end up with a few surplus quality midfielders or small forwards/defenders... which you then trade in groups for talented ruckmen/KP players...

Our problem? without a team of big lads around them, our mids look like terrible kicks, and their value is greatly diminished, making a trade work in the oppositions favour.

There is a LOT of hard work ahead.

Every side could say that.

...

12 sides have to finish outside the top 4.

...and soon it will be 14 sides...

By the time we recruit 4 KP players, plus 3-4 rotation players, and by the time they are blooded, it will be at LEAST 5 years from now. Probably more given our KP player record. By which time McLean will be approaching 30.

The combination of a lack of KPPs on our list now, and the time taken for KPP's drafted in the next couple of drafts to develop is a concern, yes.

By the time we work this problem out, we will have to recruit a bunch of new McLeans, Moloneys, Sylvias....

There is one thing though. CAC always said he'd take the best available at the early end of the draft. That means most of the time that you end up with a few surplus quality midfielders or small forwards/defenders... which you then trade in groups for talented ruckmen/KP players...

Our problem? without a team of big lads around them, our mids look like terrible kicks, and their value is greatly diminished, making a trade work in the oppositions favour.

One thing with this is that the numbers don't stack up - there are far more smalls/mediums. How many talented rucks/KPPs get traded unless they have off-field issues that cause them to move on?