Crikey. Roll on game day.

2 hours ago, Lucifers Hero said:

Yes, Goodwin tried in 2024 but as we slid down the ladder he panicked and reverted back to the previous game plan. Later he admitted it was a mistake to revert back to the old 'territory, defence first' plan. So it is hard to say the 2024 attempt was successful.

Yes, he tried again in 2025 starting the season 0-5 and again we ended up 14th. While elements of a 'transition' game from d5o to f50 were introduced, it was still largely a 'territory, hug the boundary style, low risk, 'bombing' into a congested fwd line. It was patently obvious at the ground that players were confused about their roles and lacked confidence in what they were doing. Lots of reasons for that but we can't exonerate the coach. No, Goodwin's attempts in 2025 were not successful otherwise he would still have his job.

What he didn't change was our method for going i50. We stuck to the kick long bombs to a contest often hugging the boundary. That is what Petracca, Oliver, Viney etal were asked to do. That style resulted in numerous op marks i50 and fwds taking difficult shots from the boundary with the inevitable poor goal/point ratio.

We have a sample of only one game but lets list what King has changed.

• Fwd line has opened up with little congestion.

• Fwds are leading with speed at the kicker.

• Extremely high marks i50

• Mids are centering the ball i50 and risking a turnover back through the corridor vs Goodwin style of playing it safe by hugging the boundary. (I saw a chart which showed where our shots for goal were on Sunday but unfortunately I can't find it - it was eye opening compared to prior years).

• Greater goal/point accuracy: 18.12

So I agree with @3KZ is Football Goodwin made a few tweaks in 204/2025 (unsuccessfully) and King has found a way in a few months to enable us to move the ball more freely with the resulting high level connection with the forward line - something that Goodwin never came close to achieving.

Even if the players you mentioned were still with us King would have succeeded in achieving the results we saw on Sunday.

Correct. 2024/25 were completely wasted years

We won all the Stats, week after week

But Could not score. The same process for 2 Seasons

But to some that is a myth….

3 minutes ago, Lucifers Hero said:

It may be in jest but whenever you play the #Goodwinmyths card it seems shorthand to discredit what a poster is saying ipso facto defending Goodwin.

In this case most of the response to my first post seemed defensive of him or to exonerate him. Ditto much of the second response.

No it's absolutely not (defendimg goodwn).

And respectfully I think you've misunderstood the point I was makimg in those posts.

The first one for instance, i was simply answering your question why I thought 3kzs post was inaccurate.

My reply didn't contain any assessment of how well he implemented a transition and turnover game, just that he was trying to implement that method. Which he was.

My use of #Goodwin myths is shorthand pushback on the frequent misrepresentation of his game plan and methods.

Such myths have a tendenchy, thru sheer weight of repetition, to become accepted fact.

I dislike the modern tendency to rewrite history. Getting history wrong drives misinformation, and in this example colours any analysis and assessment of the incumbent coach’s performance.

An obvious example is the suggestion that King is implementing a completely different game an to Goody. It's different yes, but not radically different in the way, for example, Mcrae's game plan was radically different the defence first method Buckley used.

And that fact informs my assessment King's performance.

Edited 3 hours ago3 hr by binman

38 minutes ago, binman said:

No it's absolutely not (defendimg goodwn).

And respectfully I think you've misunderstood the point I was makimg in those posts.

The first one for instance, i was simply answering your question why I thought 3kzs post was inaccurate.

My reply didn't contain any assessment of how well he implemented a transition and turnover game, just that he was trying to implement that method. Which he was.

My use of #Goodwin myths is shorthand pushback on the frequent misrepresentation of his game plan and methods.

Such myths have a tendenchy, thru sheer weight of repetition, to become accepted fact.

I dislike the modern tendency to rewrite history. Getting history wrong drives misinformation, and in this example colours any analysis and assessment of the incumbent coach’s performance.

An obvious example is the suggestion that King is implementing a completely different game an to Goody. It's different yes, but not radically different in the way, for example, Mcrae's game plan was radically different the defence first method Buckley used.

And that fact informs my assessment King's performance.

You are saying that Goodwin’s Gameplan was Similar to what King has introduced over the past 2-3 months….

Now that is a Myth…

How is my original post in accurate btw??

Do tell, we all watched the Train Crash…

Edited 2 hours ago2 hr by 3KZ is Football

29 minutes ago, 3KZ is Football said:

How is my original post in accurate btw??

I think you'll find I've answered that very question (though I wish I hadn't bothered):

https://demonland.com/forums/topic/66994-postgame-rd-01-vs-st-kilda/?do=findComment&comment=2759903

5 hours ago, Lucifers Hero said:

Even if the players you mentioned were still with us King would have succeeded in achieving the results we saw on Sunday.

You can’t claim a counterfactual as a fact. You have no idea what would have happened if King had come in with exactly the same squad.

Equally, you have no idea what Goodwin might have achieved with our current squad—and alongside all the other changes that have taken place.

The fact that the club pushed so hard to move on from some of these players, even at considerable financial cost, suggests they understood full well that King would not have been free to implement a new plan had they remained.

3 hours ago, binman said:

I'll take that as a compliment.

It was mean to be Binners. Appreciate the analysis often backed up by facts ( stats).