lets not get too carried away just yet, i remember seeing a young brent grgic take a game by the scruff of the neck and wondering just how good he was going to be. bell was great and i tip my hat to him, but it's only one game. now we know how good he can be......lets see more of it before the "told you so's" come out.

I thought I had erased that name from my memory. GRGIC!!! AAAAHHHH. He still gives me heart burn

He along with green and bruce were the best 3 players on the ground ... funny that, they are the 3 most derided players on this board ...

Not quite, but close !!!

Not quite, but close !!!

Miller, Ward, Godfrey, Holland - need I go on?

Nope, I think you've got it under control !!!

Ohh, 999 posts - how very exciting :D !!!

Nope, I think you've got it under control !!!

That's a shame because Brown definitely deserved a mention.

Next time

lets see more of it before the "told you so's" come out.

No...

Nope...

I'm gonna say I told you so. I saw it BEFORE he came good at the end of last year. And for the last 12-16 MFC games he has been awesome. The I told you so came WEEKS ago.

it's a very simple analogy,

And a terrible one. Grgic failed for reasons specific to him and him alone. He had attitude problems. Belly is as close to having attitude problems as he is to ovulating. Grgic was also more talented. Bell is as hard a worker as they come. The analogy is tripe. You know it. I know it. We all know it.

few good performances does not a quality a.f.l footballer make.

Ummm.... yes. Yes they do. And what's a few? 3? 6? He's played quality football for more than half a season now. The best footballers play good footy in their first 50 games. When Buckley played well in his first 50 people were saying he was a future star. Now I'm not saying Belly is a star, but he's earned the tag of quality footballer. It's simple really. Any AFL list would trade for him. For varying prices admittedly, depending on their need at the time, but Bell's asking price has quadroupled. What does THAT tell you?

it's taken until round 10 for the pro bell supporters to bring out the "i told you so" line.........what do you read into that?

Where have you been? We've been belting out the I told you so's since about round 18-22 last year. He hasn't played one good game. He's played about 10 good games in 15, and he's played one ABSOLUTE CORKER of a game.

he was crap against west coast......and he was.

Oh who wasn't crap? He had a couple of goals kicked on him. He wasn't thrashed. Actually, he was probably in our best 10, which says something about our quality on the day. He had no help, and you're bringing up his peformance against WC as evidence? Which players actually won their positions that day? Belly wasn't crap. He was par for the course.

but every player who pulls on a red and blue jumper is not necessarily going to be gun.

No. But Bell IS a gun. Look mate, if you can't see it by now, you're one of those supporters who'll take 3 years to come to the conclusion, and belatedly agree when he's approaching game 100 that he's a gun. I'm not saying he's a star. I'm not saying he's a champion. But the guy brings absolute AFL quality to the table. Professionalism, hardness...

We have a LOT of players who people apply a simple tag to... Ward, Godfrey, Brown = these are players that won't win you a premiership... Harsh... but fair in many respects. Bell is the kind of player that not only would not be carried to a flag, he'd contribute. He IS a possible premiership player (with the right list around him) even if he isn't the guy who'll win it off his own boot... And you want people to temper their enthusiasm? We're 1-9 mate.

I do think one thing though that may align me with you a bit. Belly's probably in our top 3 for the B&F right now. Certainly in the top 5. That's a concern. He really shouldn't, on talent, be in our top 10. Like ND said some years ago, if we want to win a flag it needs to be Bruce, Green, Neitz, White, Brock etc etc in our top 10. Belly is a defender... I'm certain that if we get ourselves together next year, Belly will fall back into the pack. But that's ok... he's supposed to. What I love is that he was one of 3 that won the game for us. You can't do that if you're not a good player. A matchwinning back pocket who can play tall, and not only break even but DOMINATE... He doesn't even need to win that many games off his own boot. Just the odd one here and there and he'll fulfill his role.

Go Belly.

That's a shame because Brown definitely deserved a mention.

Next time

Hold onto it, that time will definitely come !!!

Ohh, 1000 posts - and here I was saying something so remarkably insignificant to mark the milestone.......

I do think one thing though that may align me with you a bit. Belly's probably in our top 3 for the B&F right now. Certainly in the top 5. That's a concern. He really shouldn't, on talent, be in our top 10. Like ND said some years ago, if we want to win a flag it needs to be Bruce, Green, Neitz, White, Brock etc etc in our top 10. Belly is a defender... I'm certain that if we get ourselves together next year, Belly will fall back into the pack. But that's ok... he's supposed to. What I love is that he was one of 3 that won the game for us. You can't do that if you're not a good player. A matchwinning back pocket who can play tall, and not only break even but DOMINATE... He doesn't even need to win that many games off his own boot. Just the odd one here and there and he'll fulfill his role.

Go Belly.

I naturally agree with everything else you said, but I have to make one point, defender don't get enough recognition for their importance to a side.

If Belly is in the top 5 in our B&F every year from now on, it means he is significantly impacting the results of games, and that is what good defenders do. The more he starts to get comfortable and attack the game, the more valuable he'll become.

Would you say the same thing about Rivers? Would it be a worry if he finished top 5 in our B&F because he's a defender?

Belly could very well become as important to our side as Chad Cornes is to Port Adelaide, even if he isn't of the same quality (and he might be).

People should kiss the feet of every good defender we find. They are the most under-valued players in any side, but they also have the hardest job each week.

Also, Belly has played about 18 good games out of 38. That's a great return for a kid.

"I've always loved a tackle. I'm not an aggressive person off the field, but when I'm on the field I just seem to really want to smash someone when they get the ball." quote from belly - http://afl.com.au/Season2007/News/NewsArti...px?newsId=44489

what a star! love the kid, he'll be fantastic to watch over the next few years. watch him take out thomas in a tackle this week, and if i'm in the sort of form i was last year for the match, i'll be abusing thomas for the next 8 minutes, rock on dees, rock on belly!

"I've always loved a tackle. I'm not an aggressive person off the field, but when I'm on the field I just seem to really want to smash someone when they get the ball." quote from belly - http://afl.com.au/Season2007/News/NewsArti...px?newsId=44489

what a star! love the kid, he'll be fantastic to watch over the next few years. watch him take out thomas in a tackle this week, and if i'm in the sort of form i was last year for the match, i'll be abusing thomas for the next 8 minutes, rock on dees, rock on belly!

Love it!

That's going straight into my signature.

my credibilty must be in trouble then...

it sure is demon16. if you had been watching games this year you would know that daniel bell has played 9 good games. the one that wasnt great was WC.

have you seen stats for how many goals a defender has had kicked on them this year? you could count bells on one hand, and that would include the goal that williams kicked while bell was running off the ground injured.

this week bell arrived as a player. he dominated the d50. he spoiled 10 balls according to the age and laid 6 tackles, and he did so without giving away a free kick. his tackle on the last line, the second time in 2 weeks he has done that, was inspirational. he has body strength, he has speed. he has football nous, he reads the play well. he fits like a glove when its one on one, but was also able to run off his man and pick up 20 possessions. i even saw him punch from behind then run on and crumb his own ball more than once.

daniel bell played such a good game this week that with 20 touches the majority of people on this website think he rivaled green for best on ground. green who had 18 marks and 37 touches.

bell has had a great solid season all year, but this week he just dominated.

Where are all you 'Belly will never make it' posters now?????

Stand up and take your [censored] medicine!!

Joeboy (10 October 2006):

Bell is hugely overrated by many at Demonland . It may have been an injury affected season for him , but he really only played one game this year worthy of having him elevated to such high esteem here . Let him go if the deal is worthwhile .

Choko (10 October 2006):

Spot on Joe. Potential is not a rating! I like the kid, but if he isn't tradable for the right price, no-one is.

Occo (10 October 2006):

Happy too see him go. Dont think hes a good player and would be happy with second round pick

Occo (18 April 2007)

Its time for Bell to go to another one of the 15 clubs .......I dont rate bell. I never have. Although my statement of trading him was a little extream...even for me. I just dont think he is everything everyone says he is. There are people on here calling for players like bate get traded but in the end i think bate is better than Bell and that has lead to some of my dissopointment of bell - the fact that people are prepared to crusify bate but rave on about how good bell is. The fact that bell was drafted at 14 and players like Troy Selwood, Rivers, Staker, Watson, Ebert, L.Fisher are all higher picks than him yet show more than him.

Occo (19 April 2007)

I seriously dont rate Bell - thats my opinion. I just dont see anything in him because a) he is slow. ok on record he is quick but over time i have witnessed players running him down who are 2/3 less than his speed bb) i dont feel he reads the ball that well c) His kicking skills are ok, but he doesent deal with pressure well and instead makes terrible disposals.

Weedster (18 April 2007)

I wouldn't get too carried away - it's not that he doesn't try cos he does - always - but he lacks awareness and makes some awful mistakes..

Freak (11 October 2006)

please dont put Gibbs and Bell in the same sentence. Gibbs would have been better player than Bell when he was 15.

Freak (4 June 2006)

Yep, Pedro is right in my opinion. I have a heart attack whenever he has the ball, he indecision and lack of awareness are his major weaknesses thats for sure.

I have noticed that when he kicks, his head is over the ball for too long and by the time he actually kicks the ball, the player is no longer open( but he cannot see coz he's looking at the ball) and he turns it over.

Demonator (18 April 2007)

He can go into the midfield for the Zebras - thats about it! The bloke isnt up to AFL standard, lets face it!

Nicho (18 April 2007)

what pisses me off with Daniel Bell so much is that he has explosive pace. (I saw him run a close 2nd to Delidio in a GF sprint a couple years back) So why doesn't he run and carry the ball....

Rogue (19 April 2007)

Maybe Bell is one of the fastest guy in an athletics race, but that counts for little out in the field. You're right in that he gets run down, but not because he takes on tacklers - generally he gets run down from behind while trying to figure out who to give the ball to.

36ddee (10 May 2006)

I know i will most likely get cained for this but I am not sure Bell is going to be the player everyone think's he will be. He just seems to be caught out of position and seem's to lack a bit of pace at times. Also he hasn't got the best foot skills going around and can tend to put his team mates under the hammer a bit. I think of all our young players he is the one that I am unsure about

Before2Long (19 August 2006)

He's no good.....I just hope he finds some form so we can trade him and get something decent for him.

Yze Magic (19 August 2006)

All signs say he is the next Daniel Ward. Their games are identical

Yze Magic (19 August 2006)

All signs say he is the next Daniel Ward. Their games are identical

Beautiful work as always Old! :D

I especially love this quote.

Y_M jumping the gun yet again, and being well and truly wrong!

Beautiful work as always Old! :D

I especially love this quote.

Y_M jumping the gun yet again, and being well and truly wrong!

I can't take the credit, a little collaborative effort there - Belly has many and varied supporters!

Beautiful work as always Old! :D

I especially love this quote.

Y_M jumping the gun yet again, and being well and truly wrong!

Their games are similair

It was the correct call at the time

Their games are similair

It was the correct call at the time

How are their games similar?

Belly is accountable, Ward isn't

Belly can hit a target, Ward can't

Belly can play small or tall, Ward can't play tall

Belly is probably the best tackler in the team, Ward isn't

Ward attacks the game a lot more than Belly at this stage, and he can afford to, because he knows that when he leaves his man open in the backline, that Belly will be there to cover for him.

The call was idiotic then, and it is still idiotic now.

Admit defeat and move on.

I was right

Why would I admit defeat?

I was right

Why would I admit defeat?

I told you why you were wrong, and you didn't even bother challenging the argument.

You have been well and truly defeated.

I told you why you were wrong, and you didn't even bother challenging the argument.

You have been well and truly defeated.

Look at what date I made the original comment on - 19 August 2006

He wasnt accountable at the time. In fact I remember he played very loose. His skills were woeful as well

At the time he was Daniel Wards twin

Once again, I made the right call

Beautiful work as always Old! :D

Beautiful work? Take off the blinkers.

How many of those posters said that Bell would "never make it" (which is what old55 attempted to portray them as)?

Lets check out my post as an example -

Rogue (19 April 2007)

Maybe Bell is one of the fastest guy in an athletics race, but that counts for little out in the field. You're right in that he gets run down, but not because he takes on tacklers - generally he gets run down from behind while trying to figure out who to give the ball to.

I agreed with someone in that Bell gets run down, but said that when he gets run down it is generally when he is trying to figure out which option to take rather than when he's trying to take on a potential tackler.

Is that saying he'll "never make it"? No.

Is that even saying that he's a poor footballer? No.

Is that stating that when he gets run down it's more often because he's trying to figure out what to do with the ball more than when he is trying to take on tacklers? Yes.

I've never advocated Bell be traded, and have consistently named him in my best 22 in recent times (pre-dating the post on April 19).

honestly jaded there is no need to reply to such a childish argument...

at August last year, the main critisism that could be said of bell was that he had poor awareness and was caught with the ball too often before he was able to make a decision...he has remidied this.

he is now becoming an accomplished player...has speed, accountability, strength, agility and defensive nous....i still wish he always made the correct decision, but this will come with experience

Look at what date I made the original comment on - 19 August 2006

Once again, I made the right call

More reasons why you didn't make the right call, but jumped the gun prematurely as always (this applies to everyone who claims that Bell's game on Sunday was his first good game):

- On Aug 5th, 2006 we played and lost to Carlton. Bell played up forward that day, kicking 2 behinds.

- On Aug 12th, 2006 we played Sydney and lost. Bell did not play that day.

- On Aug 20, 2006 we played the Roos. Bell had 12 disposals, 4 marks and 3 tackles

- On Aug 26, 2006 we played Geelong. Bell had 18 disposals, 6 marks and 4 tackles

- On Sep 2, 2006 we got smashed by Adelaide, yet Bell had 24 disposals and 3 tackles.

We then played 2 finals, and Bell played extremely well in both games, especially against Freo when he comprehensively beat Farmer.

So as far as I can tell, you were very wrong when you compared him to Ward.

In fact, at around the time that you made your silly comment, Belly started to really come into his own... if only the rest of your 'spot on' calls had such a positive affect

- On Aug 5th, 2006 we played and lost to Carlton. Bell played up forward that day, kicking 2 behinds.

- On Aug 12th, 2006 we played Sydney and lost. Bell did not play that day.

- On Aug 20, 2006 we played the Roos. Bell had 12 disposals, 4 marks and 3 tackles

- On Aug 26, 2006 we played Geelong. Bell had 18 disposals, 6 marks and 4 tackles

- On Sep 2, 2006 we got smashed by Adelaide, yet Bell had 24 disposals and 3 tackles.

Please tell me that these stats have to wth anything I said about Bell

Look forward to your reply

Please tell me that these stats have to wth anything I said about Bell

Look forward to your reply

They show that as always, you've jumped the gun.

You made a call and was proven wrong in a matter of weeks.

Of course stats don't prove everything, but they do go to show that as of the end of August 2006, Bell started playing some very good games.

He was, and always has been accountable. In fact, why don't you do some of your own research to prove just how many forwards have kicked bags of goals on Belly over his entire career. Then compare that to Ward. Go on, I dare you to actually bring forwards some facts.

And as far as kicking goes, Bell has gotten progressively better as his OP cleared up, while Ward gets worse with each passing game.

Your comparison was flawed, and yet you refuse to admit you were wrong.

Haha, on the same date that old55 picked out one of my posts as an illustration of those who said that "Bell would never make it" I named him in my starting 18 (on the HBF) ahead of a guy like Brown. Also on the same date, and in the same thread that old55 quoted me from, I argued that Bell shouldn't be judged harshly simply because he was drafted at a higher pick than other players who had shown more than him so far. Around the same time (Apr 06) I stated that he should be selected for every game this season.

Way back in 2006 I disagreed with those who said Bell had a poor season. In 2006 I also named him in a group of youngsters that were in or around the best 22 already, and named him in my 22 for 2007:

With regards the 22 ->

HB. Bell RIVERS Bartram

EDIT: While I was taking a look at what I had said about Bell in the past I found this gem written at the end of 2006 (around the same time I was disagreeing with assertions that Bell had been disappointing) -

People who underestimate the importance of Jamar, might as well join Grant Thomas at centrelink for a chat.

PS. Exam time is great for wasting time on the forums.