I, too, am very taken with Bate. A couple of times last year he took wonderful flatfooted, arms outstretched strong contested marks - reminiscent of Greg Wells at his best. He played a hell of a lot of his footy in the U18's @ FB, and does occasionally look lost in the forward line. His runs are superb and I like him round the wing or HBF. Given time I do believe he will turn into a great utility, and like Bruce (when he's on his game) will play both tall and short. I rate him behind only McLean and Jones. I also rate CJ - on the basis that we didn't see the best of his father until he was over 25 - and he, too, could be a lete developer. Let's not forget that Alan created the modern back pocket game. With Sylvia, Rivers, Bartram, Dunn, Newton, Buckley, Frawley, Pettard, and to a lesser extent, Bell, the future does look very promising. They only need to be decently coached - Mark Williams is developing them well - it's the senior coacihing that worries me.

Always right eh Nasher?? Hardly a crock of a therad. Couldnt disagree with you more...especially your judgements on locking threads...PFFFT!

Your attempts to pick me off at every opportunity are wearing thin. Knock it off. "Always right"? I've never claimed to always be right, but if you think I am, great!

Rhino summed it up perfectly. The original post in my opinion was unfair on a young player who so far hasn't put too much of a foot wrong.

Cant agree with any negativity on Bate, from what Ive seen he works hard even if his kicking is a strange style its long and typically gets to the mark. Ive never gone away from a game thinking he was anywhere near worst on ground. Christ if you thought he was fumbling on Friday he wasnt alone.

Time is all he requires.

... I'd like to hear more about that from you occo. In the case of all 5 players.

I have seen Bate play several times for Croydon as i myself am from the region. At the croydon footy club he played forward pocket and CHF and had birsts in the midfield. He was electrifing as you can imagain. I just feel that bate isnt a midfielder as he struggles in the pack marks, and is not overly quick. His disposal is between average and good and i am not critising him for that. He will get better in that department. Like most midfielders, they are required to also assist in defence and i think this is where bate really struggles. His awareness is good but he struggles to apply a defensive style of game. As said, he played forward at Croydon and was their shining light. He is very quick off the mark (but not long distance) and he has a beautiful kick (can kick 50 metre goals). Melbournes forward line is really struggeling too. We have names there that have a lot of tallent and able to kick plenty of goals. Names like Neitz, Davey, Miller, Robertson, Davey on paper look good however it just doesent gell. Neitz and Davey in my opinion are the only ones who are prepared to chase and lock the ball in our 50. Robbo does to an extent however gives up too easily. Bate would be prepared to run and apply that defensive pressure i believe. I also recon that melb's forward line is too tall with no crummers. The ball hits the ground, yze is too far off the ball or drops it after he picks it up and its out the other side from an opponant. Put davey in the 50 and bate. These 2 players will be required when the ball hits the turf.

As for Green. Well i believe his natural possition is half forward pockett not midfield. Green is not a natural midfielder. Names like Johnstone, McLean, McDonnald, Moloney, Bruce have an instinctive style of play where they either honor a lead or kick it long only a few seconds after they have recieved the ball. Green always looks unsure to me when he has the footy and takes ages to dispose of it, allowing a flood to occur. He is very coragious however i believe his kicking is superbe (one of the best kickers in the leigue in my opinion). I have never liked green playing midfield and i think players who can kick accuratly quickly after recieving the ball and looking confident when they have the ball is someone we need in the midfield.

Davey, as mentioned should play forward pockett.

Bartram is not a defender either in my opinion. He has been very effective in 2006, however i believe his future is playing on the wing. My reasons for questioning his style of game in defence is that he is not a great tagger and can loose his oponant very quickly. I also believe he is very very tallanted and is a waisted assett in the backline. Play him 50 - 50 i beleieve in both defence and midfield. Give him a chance to play both and see which one he is more prone to.

And lastly ferguson. For a number of games, he has been played back pockett however i feel he can read the play and is quick enough for a half back pockett possition alongside rivers. The team lacks height in that half back position i believe. He has great corage and can take the ball and run (even at his height). I have been very pleased with Wornock. I think he is a real tallent and is suited to a back pockett position, mainly for the reason that he can take pack marks and is a very good tagger. His disposal is average, which may be his only negitive.

Going even further, i would play Bruce half back pockett during only some games as he can read the play, take pack marks and can minipulate the play and run from defence.

The positions i would allicate players:

Backs: Wornock, Carroll, Whelan, Brown, Frawley, Holland, Wheatley

HB: Ferguson, Bell, Rivers, Bizzell, Ward

C: Bruce, Bartram, Jones, McLean, Moloney, Godfrey, C.Johnson, Pickett, Junior

HF: Dunn, Miller, Robbo, Sylvia, Green

F: Neitz, Davey, Bate, Yze

That is my opinion anyway and congrats if u read all this.

Let me see he turned 19 in December and has played 15 AFL games. He is athletic 192 cm /90kgs. Rising Star nominee in Rd 18 last year.

He is young and down on confidence and shots are being fired.

Nasher is right- What a crock.

If MFC is going to make the big step he is definitely part of our best 22. We need him and other firing. Criticism of him is churlish at best given some of the handbag performances by more estabished players. Point the gun at them not Bate.

i agree with u he is still young and he has to to establish himself first .... but i dont think he is in our best 22 atm and maybe not for a while

with sylvia coming back i think there is only one place for either Bate / Jones

Jones, Bate and Sylvia all play based on their form.

They are each easily good enough to justify their position on their own terms.

I dont believe any of the three are challenging for each others spot.

Jones, Bate and Sylvia all play based on their form.

They are each easily good enough to justify their position on their own terms.

I dont believe any of the three are challenging for each others spot.

i dont think thats entireley true.... i believe all 3 dont consistantly perform and are often left in the side as a learnin curve.... ( espeically bate and jones)

and for that reason i dont think their is a spot for all 3

i dont think thats entireley true.... i believe all 3 dont consistantly perform and are often left in the side as a learnin curve.... ( espeically bate and jones)

and for that reason i dont think their is a spot for all 3

From the side that played on Saturday if fit I would have Sylvia and chop Yze.

I'd have Rivers in at the expense of Ward.

Who would be in the best 22 at the expense of one of the three.

Abilitywise their best is better than others on the sidelines. And we need that sort of ability to fire if we are to be in roads at the top. Given they have played no more than 20 games each, consistency is a very hard and unreasonable ask. Hell, there are experienced players who cant produce that over 200 games.

From the side that played on Saturday if fit I would have Sylvia and chop Yze.

I'd have Rivers in at the expense of Ward.

Who would be in the best 22 at the expense of one of the three.

Abilitywise their best is better than others on the sidelines. And we need that sort of ability to fire if we are to be in roads at the top. Given they have played no more than 20 games each, consistency is a very hard and unreasonable ask. Hell, there are experienced players who cant produce that over 200 games.

perhaps.... pickett still has to come in as well maybe not this week but soon.... then who misses?

Whether or not we agree with the original post, I don't think there's anything unfair about it. It's just an expression of opinion on a footballer.

If we can't make comments on players' abilities and how they are performing, then what really is the purpose of this forum?

I was under the impression that this forum is for Melbourne fans to discuss all things concerning footy and in particular the Demons. Granted personal attacks on players are prohibited, but commenting on a player's strenghts/weaknesses is a discussion point and is something I find interesting.

name='Scoop Junior' post='63612' date='Apr 3 2007, 02:47 PM']Whether or not

Couldn't agree more.

With Sylvia, Rivers, Bartram, Dunn, Newton, Buckley, Frawley, Pettard, and to a lesser extent, Bell, the future does look very promising. They only need to be decently coached - Mark Williams is developing them well - it's the senior coacihing that worries me.

Im really worried about Melbs future actually. I look at the dogs, hawks, WCE, Port and Brissy and see 100% better depth than us.

Port: Surgen, Pearse, Ebert, Bentley, Cockshell, Chaplin, Logan, Pettigrew, Salopek, Symes, Thomson

Bris: Adcock, Brennan, Clark, Fixter, Hadley, Harding, Hooper, Mills, Moody, Patfull, Rischitelli, Roe, Schmidt, Selwood, Sherman, Stiller, Wood

I could keep going but i dont believe melbourne have that good of a list personally. We look ok for the next 2 years but after that i believe we will be not contenders of the 8. Although names like Bate, Dunn, Bartram, Rivers all look good...we dont have the depth of any of these clubs. Thats my opinion anyway

Im really worried about Melbs future actually. I look at the dogs, hawks, WCE, Port and Brissy and see 100% better depth than us.

Port: Surgen, Pearse, Ebert, Bentley, Cockshell, Chaplin, Logan, Pettigrew, Salopek, Symes, Thomson

Bris: Adcock, Brennan, Clark, Fixter, Hadley, Harding, Hooper, Mills, Moody, Patfull, Rischitelli, Roe, Schmidt, Selwood, Sherman, Stiller, Wood

I could keep going but i dont believe melbourne have that good of a list personally. We look ok for the next 2 years but after that i believe we will be not contenders of the 8. Although names like Bate, Dunn, Bartram, Rivers all look good...we dont have the depth of any of these clubs. Thats my opinion anyway

ill think the thing about melbourne is they got the young guns.... but they also got a good mix of middle aged players and veterans. and ull find as the younger players start to progess the Older guys will be still holding their own.... where as brisbane has almost invested their whole future on youngsters.....

Im really worried about Melbs future actually. I look at the dogs, hawks, WCE, Port and Brissy and see 100% better depth than us.

I could keep going but i dont believe melbourne have that good of a list personally. We look ok for the next 2 years but after that i believe we will be not contenders of the 8. Although names like Bate, Dunn, Bartram, Rivers all look good...we dont have the depth of any of these clubs. Thats my opinion anyway

Yeah, I agree with you. Hopefully we can find talent to replace the old warheads, and i still hope we can be compete in 2009 and beyond

That is my opinion anyway and congrats if u read all this.

occo... The Nathan Carroll of demonland. Absolutely on fire in the last 2 weeks. Ripping post, and despite the odd spelling and grammatical error I breezed right through that, so no need to congratulate me, I do like the long ones. And I think I agree with much of it too. On Green, I think you'll find he's played as a wing, HFF or HBF, all of which he suits down to the ground. Yes he can go forward and lead, but then he can drift out of games when it doesn't get there. I LOVED him off the half back line and think he can win a B&F from there with a healthy foot and THAT delivery. He'll collect prdoigious amounts of possessions too. The other thing I'm loving about Green these days is that it's not a case of him being good in one position, and weak in others. I trust him in a number of spots on the ground.

I'd have Rivers in at the expense of Ward.

I like it, and I think it's a positive step, but I'm worried about losing what little dash we had on the weekend. Are you prepared to deny the team his pace? Honest question, not rhetorical.

Whether or not we agree with the original post, I don't think there's anything unfair about it.

Especially considering the topic's originator has come round to Bate's strengths. there's nothing snipy or below the belt about this thread. I thought it was valid, if a bit skewed.

Im really worried about Melbs future actually.

I think the prevailing thought is that we have the next 2 years + about 2 or 3 to build to our next shot at the flag. The first 2 years is the Neitz/Daniher era, assuming ND still coaches in 2008. We're a shot at it with limited low draft picks, but a strong mature list. After that we're going to need some time to blood some talls, recruit a decent ruckman or two and get them up to standard (have to do that THIS draft or trade period), and maybe collect a few more KPP along the way. The educated view is that we'll have a couple of rough years before seeing Bruce, Green, Robbo and Trav in their twilight playing with some wonderful young up-and-coming forwards, as well as Sylvia, Brock, Beamer and co becoming seasoned vets. I'm prepared to put up with a few years of pain. We've been up (ish) for a while now.

We're a shot at it with limited low draft picks, but a strong mature list. After that we're going to need some time to blood some talls, recruit a decent ruckman or two and get them up to standard (have to do that THIS draft or trade period), and maybe collect a few more KPP along the way. The educated view is that we'll have a couple of rough years before seeing Bruce, Green, Robbo and Trav in their twilight playing with some wonderful young up-and-coming forwards, as well as Sylvia, Brock, Beamer and co becoming seasoned vets. I'm prepared to put up with a few years of pain. We've been up (ish) for a while now.

Agree. I just think Brissy have got some of the best players in the draft in very few years. All thoes names that I mentioned were collected within about 4 years, and they are playing good footy. Brisbane have picked players very well in my opinion....like melb.

Sylvia + Miller + Yze for Judd + Cox + Sandilands ? lol

Formerly known as bruceybaby...I now have a new identity. So don't judge this topic simply because of the number of posts I have made !!! I once made a comment about Bate being over-rated. I'm not sure if there are ANY melbourne supporters out there that will agree with me on this, but I don't think Bate should be in our BEST 22 at the moment. Why does everyone rave about him ? Is he really so special ? I think he is the least exciting player of our younger players. Here are some reasons.

1) His skills are pretty average, drops marks, (never seen him kick a drop punt).

2) He is awkward and not the speediest. Reminds me of Ian Perry for Adelaide but not as good. (Even though I don't rate Perry)

3) Defensive part of his game. Rarely do I see him manned up when opposition have the ball.

and on friday night right on the mcc members wing where I was sitting he backed out of a marking contest which just made me angry not to mention the number of handballs he made to players that were going to be gang tackled as soon as they got the ball.

Everyone keeps bagging Miller about his game on fri as well. Did anyone see the kicks he was getting his way? He wasnt even given a chance.

Hopefully have some positive feedback on my behalf... I'm scared I may not have many friendly responses. Peace.

I think he is fantastic!!!!!! He may be young but matthew Bate is so determind to be a great player! He will go far and will succeed. I'm sure a lot of other players droped marks too. Apparenly I hear he is one of the fastest in the team. I find him very exciting to watch! Can't wait to see how he plays next!!!! Go 6!!!! You are the best on the team!

I think Matthew Bate will go so far and be one of the best! Do you think he will play in the next round? I hope so!