51 minutes ago, TeamPlayedFine39 said:

IMHO Jones is a very good captain of the side, for further proof of this, dig up the threads that follow many of our wins.  When we're firing, Jones is praised, when we're playing poorly, he cops it.  Which, to an extent, is fair enough; he's the Captain of the team and the buck for onfield leadership stops with him.

The issue for me is that Jones, Vince and McDonald are terribly, terribly out of form.  Great players, playing badly.  Jones and Vince are not impacting off halfback and they are struggling to impose themselves when they are playing in the midfield.  McDonald, another onfield leader, has some far more obvious and visible blunders.  Until these three find form, following interrupted preseasons, we will struggle.

Great leaders will themselves back into form...Yesterday was the time for that. 

Failed. 

1 hour ago, Macca said:

Well, you're going to have to deal with the reality of the situation Wyl ... great captains don't grow on trees and a club usually has to develop their own leaders.

Besides which, you mark Jones too harshly anyway ... Viney is probably the next cab off the rank but the truth is that it's a senior player issue - and we've talked about that here for a number of years now.

I'd like to think that the senior players that I named in my previous post will all lift their game against North ... and if they don't? ... we can't then blame Jones (or, at least I won't)

Every player is responsible for his own actions - especially the senior players.   "If it is to be it is up to me" (RDB)

But it's Groundhog Day Macca

this Prima Dona attitude we saw yesterday should have been obliterated straight away when Roos first came in during Pre Season 2014. The Players wanted Roos to Coach them. 

Once the players cross the white line IT IS THEN UP TO THEM...

Yesterday showed remnants that Holywood Blvd is stil lurking within the club..it was so obvious 5 mins into the game. 

What did we LEARN losing to Essendrug & Carlton last year?

nothing. 

15 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

But it's Groundhog Day Macca

this Prima Dona attitude we saw yesterday should have been obliterated straight away when Roos first came in during Pre Season 2014. The Players wanted Roos to Coach them. 

Once the players cross the white line IT IS THEN UP TO THEM...

Yesterday showed remnants that Holywood Blvd is stil lurking within the club..it was so obvious 5 mins into the game. 

What did we LEARN losing to Essendrug & Carlton last year?

nothing. 

Yep, it's a team/club issue Wyl ... at least we agree on that.

We're all waiting for the day when we bring effort, energy, application & a never-say-die attitude most weeks (every week is a stretch but the Hawks rarely fail to deliver in the "switched on" department)

So, what's the solution? ... it's fairly obvious what is required and it's up to the coaching staff to instill the fundamentals into all our players  - which is entirely possible.  As supporters, we can only watch it unfold - we're not empowered to be able to do anything.

Edited April 3, 20169 yr by Macca

1 minute ago, Macca said:

Yep, it's a team/club issue Wyl ... at least we agree on that.

We're all waiting for the day when we bring effort, energy, application & a never-say-die attitude most weeks (every week is a stretch but the Hawks rarely fail deliver in the "switched on" department)

So, what's the solution? ... it's fairly obvious what is required and it's up to the coaching staff to instill the fundamentals into all our players  - which is entirely possible.  As supporters, we can only watch it unfold - we're not empowered to be able to do anything.

Agreed. And it comes back to onfield leadership. 

It is not there when it is required...and has been like that for a long time. 

That is why i put the Thread up in the first place. 

If i was in Jonesy's shoes today i would be organizing a players dinner to have an absolute heart to heart discussion. Eyeball players..

 

1 minute ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Agreed. And it comes back to onfield leadership. 

It is not there when it is required...and has been like that for a long time. 

That is why i put the Thread up in the first place. 

If i was in Jonesy's shoes today i would be organizing a players dinner to have an absolute heart to heart discussion. Eyeball players..

 

And how do you know that Jones hasn't or isn't already doing those sort of things - you may be selling him short Wyl without knowing the actual facts.  The issue is miles bigger than Jones' captaincy anyway

Anyway, the list looks to have lots of "potential" and I want to believe that the current list will mature into a list that will play finals but ... that belief system is largely wasted on supporters though.  The club sells us the belief but it's up to the club to deliver. 

What matters is what the club actually does - and all we can really do is watch it unfold.  Along with everyone else, I live in the hope that they know what they are doing is the right way.  It's one thing having a plan but it has to be the right plan.

For instance, with the new rules in place, will the list be equipped to play primarily fast, play-on footy with highly skilled players often through the corridor? ... because that's where the game is heading in my opinion.  Like always, time will tell whether we're up to it.

 

6 hours ago, jumbo returns said:

On Friday night, Pendlebury went into the backline and marshalled his players to start filling the gaps - it had a huge impact.

We need more onfield leaders.

We have Jonesy, but we need more....Bernie? Dawes? Garlett? 

Jetta.

5 hours ago, titan_uranus said:

The lack of leadership when we have games like this is obvious.

I said in the post-match thread that I saw it early on. N Jones was getting the ball but instead of gut-running past opponents or focusing on fast movement, he was looking for cheap possessions out the back which caused him and the team trouble, or went for cute sideways kicks which didn't benefit the club and do not fit into our 2016 game plan.

Vince doesn't lead on field. No talk, no "follow me", he probably tells himself internally "I need to lift" but we don't see it.

Garland is supposed to be a leader in the backline but doesn't do anything other than focus on himself. 

It's this introverted, internal focus of our leaders (compared to the external leadership of players like Pendlebury, Hodge, Riewoldt) which destroys us when the chips are down.

Trengove had it, when he was captain. I hold out hope he can get his body right and return for us as I still think he has proper leadership qualities. Otherwise, I hope that Brayshaw, Viney, Gawn and Oliver can learn how not to lead from the rest.

I know they're young, but where was their leadership yesterday? Viney was blanketed, no doubt, but I still didn't see a lot of marshalling from him either.

 I suspect that when some people talk about 'leadership' what they're really asking for is someone to change the course of the game through some individual act of brilliance. That's a footballing ability. If Jones had kicked the goal in the last and it led us to a win people would probably be praising his leadership. A matter of accuracy.