OUT: Abbott IN: Turnbull

[nutbean 8,837]

10 hours ago, daisycutter said:

ok, i see the difference. misleading at first glance

i guess it says more about the size of poverty in the third world than about the rich though

fastest growing population in the world is africa surprisingly (in that it is the least able to support population growth)

I must admit when I read both articles the size of the poverty problem was what resonated with me.

[dee-luded 2,958]

On 16/02/2016 at 4:45 PM, nutbean said:

it actually doesn't say that - it says that 62 richest people are as wealthy as half the worlds population which is very different from the 62 richest people own half the worlds wealth. i have no idea if the figures in the article  are true but it is a frightening figure.

owning/having 1/2  the worlds wealth is useless to all concerned.  as its only the resources you can suffice your needs from it,  that really counts.

 

so in my opinion we should,  when realistic dollars are unavailable for any of our earthly resources,  slow down our shop trading hours . no point giving it all away to O/S & pollute as we give it all up.

[dee-luded 2,958]

On 16/02/2016 at 8:43 PM, daisycutter said:

ok, i see the difference. misleading at first glance

i guess it says more about the size of poverty in the third world than about the rich though

fastest growing population in the world is africa surprisingly (in that it is the least able to support population growth)

your talkin about that Mean nasty average again daisy?

[Earl Hood 5,870]

I think this thread is misleading, there has been no in or out we just now have Prime Minister Tony Turnbull in charge or Malcolm Abbott, take your pick, same outcome. Two and half years to do nothing, oh except to axe the tax and stop the boats! 

[Bluey's Dad 3,419]

11 hours ago, Earl Hood said:

I think this thread is misleading, there has been no in or out we just now have Prime Minister Tony Turnbull in charge or Malcolm Abbott, take your pick, same outcome. Two and half years to do nothing, oh except to axe the tax and stop the boats! 

I had a lot of hope that the change of leader might actually result in some substantial change in policy, but it appears you are right, nothing seems to have changed.

I find it incredibly frustrating that I used to hear Malcolm talk and think "that's a real leader". I can only now think of 3 possibilities on what happened, none of them good:

- Turnbull's previous appearances and statements were populist fluff and he never believed them
- He is handcuffed by a hostile right-wing faction within his own party, meaning he is a weak leader
- He's just saying whatever suits him at whatever time it's of political benefit in order to hold onto the prime ministership

Australia's quest for a real Prime Minister continues.

[dee-luded 2,958]

22 hours ago, Earl Hood said:

I think this thread is misleading, there has been no in or out we just now have Prime Minister Tony Turnbull in charge or Malcolm Abbott, take your pick, same outcome. Two and half years to do nothing, oh except to axe the tax and stop the boats! 

so we've gone backwards,  losing the price on carbon.

 

..... more & more it seems to me that the party leader is just a figure head,  whilst the power people work behind from the shadows.  the party power brokers & lobbyists & the cabinet backroom jockeys,  IMO run the show.

The modern leaders seem nobbled by the secret party agenda's driven by men/people in the shadows & they're lobbyists like christian groups, multi-national giants & other industry groups.

 

democracy is the loser,  of these shadowy figures.

[dee-luded 2,958]

11 hours ago, Choke said:

I had a lot of hope that the change of leader might actually result in some substantial change in policy, but it appears you are right, nothing seems to have changed.

I find it incredibly frustrating that I used to hear Malcolm talk and think "that's a real leader". I can only now think of 3 possibilities on what happened, none of them good:

A/ - Turnbull's previous appearances and statements were populist fluff and he never believed them

B/ - He is handcuffed by a hostile right-wing faction within his own party, meaning he is a weak leader

C/ - He's just saying whatever suits him at whatever time it's of political benefit in order to hold onto the prime ministership

 

Australia's quest for a real Prime Minister continues.

I'll skip A , & go with B & C as most likely options...  turn bull,  imo just wanted the title of PM... so would do whatever to get it.  even sacrificing his beliefs to do so, IMO.

the rabbot was/is the  British/Australian who was most like the USA's,  G 'w' Bush...   dangerous  ' t party'  types.

 

the religious lobby also work from the darkness of the shadows, without coming out up front publicly,  to say what it is they want.

Edited February 25, 2016 by dee-luded

[Wrecker45 3,378]

On 24 February 2016 at 9:58 PM, Earl Hood said:

I think this thread is misleading, there has been no in or out we just now have Prime Minister Tony Turnbull in charge or Malcolm Abbott, take your pick, same outcome. Two and half years to do nothing, oh except to axe the tax and stop the boats! 

Dislike those policies as you will but Abbott succeeded in implementing both as promised by 3 word slogans in his election campaign.

What does Turnbull stand for? About the same as Rudd and Gillard at this stage. And that is generous to Rudd and Gillard because Turnbull hasn't mucked anything up yet.

[dee-luded 2,958]

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/tony-abbott-jets-to-us-to-address-abortion-and-gaymarriage-opponents-alliance-defending-freedom-20160125-gmdi7r.html#ixzz42Y2XUPxg

 

Tony Abbott jets to US to address abortion and gay-marriage opponents Alliance Defending Freedom

 

Date   January 26, 2016   Mark Kenn    Chief political correspondent

 

Fresh from giving new hope to disaffected conservative Liberals by staying in federal politics,  Tony Abbott will fly to the United States on Tuesday to gee-up one of the religious right's most reactionary bodies, the Alliance Defending Freedom.

 

Mr Abbott, who is being accompanied by wife Margie,  will give a speech on the topic of  "the importance of family"  to the pro-Christian,  Republican-aligned lobby,  which opposes abortion,  wants to end gay marriage and is pushing to roll back some feminist advances.

Plebiscite push:  PM Malcolm Turnbull adopted predecessor Tony Abbott's policy.  Photo: Andrew Meares

 

The speech comes as the primary race for the presidential nomination approaches fever pitch,  with contenders on the Republican side scrambling to secure the overwhelmingly Christian  "Tea Party"  base.

 

The Alliance Defending Freedom's founding president,  Alan Sears,  is a regular conservative voice on Rupert Murdoch's Fox News channel and co-authored the 2003 book,  The Homosexual Agenda:  Exposing the Principal Threat to Religious Liberty Today.

 

With Craig Osten,  Sears argued that America's growing tolerance of homosexuality was being achieved through the indoctrination of children,  tacit support of corporate America,  and through "positive"  television depictions of alternative family structures.

 

The ADF has attracted trenchant criticism from the left for opposing  "tolerance training"  for schools aimed at reducing bullying of LGBTI students.   Instead,  it proposed  "truth days",  in which homosexual behaviour was openly discussed as sinful.

Announcing his intention to contest the 2016 election,  Mr Abbott said he wanted to focus on  "transport issues"  in his Sydney electorate.

 

Alliance Defending Freedom president Alan Sears. Photo: www.adflegal.org

 

But Mr Abbott's US address will add to his post-leadership record of spruiking conservative values and right-of-centre policies to like-minded groups abroad.  It will also further burnish his credentials as Australia's pre-eminent social conservative,  in sharp distinction with the middle-ground of Australian politics,  and with that of his replacement,  the pro-marriage equality,  pro-environment Malcolm Turnbull.

Mr Abbott's direct links with the organisation will be seen as a powerful statement of difference   from Mr Turnbull who pointedly spoke with the more moderate Republican presidential hopeful,  Marco Rubio recently - who is pro-free trade - rather than the two contenders ahead of Mr Rubio,  Ted Cruz and the favourite,  the ultra-conservative,  Donald Trump.

Mr Abbott's program in the US is understood to include a number of other appointments,  however his office denied a suggestion that that he was scheduled to canvass a planned comeback with Rupert Murdoch and/or his New York Post editor,   Col Allan.   News Corp has since confirmed a meeting with Mr Murdoch is expected to proceed while the former prime minister is in New York.

 

It follows just days after Mr Turnbull made his first official visit as Prime Minister to the US for meetings with political leaders and President Barack Obama,  and as Mr Abbott's erstwhile treasurer,  Joe Hockey,  begins his term as Australia's new ambassador to Washington.

 

Mr Abbott's decision to remain in politics has inevitably raised concerns within the Turnbull camp that the former prime minister harbours leadership ambitions and that he will become a destabilising influence,  reviving Kevin Rudd's successful undermining of Julia Gillard.

Some right-wing MPs believe he can be restored to the top job,  and that in the interim,  he should be elevated to the cabinet when Malcolm Turnbull makes changes forced on him by the resignation of Jamie Briggs and the standing aside of another minister,  Mal Brough.

The ADF believes some freedoms,  most notably the freedom to practice the Christian faith,  is being subsumed by the free expression of the individual,  and argues that the contest over the definition of marriage goes to the very foundations of America's future.

"What happens to marriage dictates what our society will become,"  it states on its website.

 

"The cultural battle over marriage isn't about two individuals looking to legally establish their love.  It's much bigger than that,  and much more is at stake.   As marriage is redefined,  children face a world that is less likely to affirm their need for both a mom and a dad.   The focus of marital relationships shifts from selfless love to the desires of the individual.   And the religious freedom of those who stand for marriage is threatened."

 

An ADF official travelled to Australia late last year to address the Australian Christian Lobby's national conference.

 

 

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/tony-abbott-jets-to-us-to-address-abortion-and-gaymarriage-opponents-alliance-defending-freedom-20160125-gmdi7r.html#ixzz42Y5A0MVg
Follow us: @smh on Twitter | sydneymorningherald on Facebook

 

[dee-luded 2,958]

 

I think the liberals via Pyne,  placed Turnbull in place,  removing the very unpopular rabbot hiding him down some burrow,,  until after the 2016 election.

 

It is my opinion that Turnbull will be sacked after the 2016 election & the rabbot will re-app-ear. 

the Gay & Lesbian communities are in for disappointment,  if they believe this man & his promises. >

plebiscite or not,  I believe after the 2016 election,  the right wing christian lobbies will stack the voting on any legislations to do with marriage equality.

 

 

the rabbots poking his head up recently,  is of no coincidence following his visits of the USA,  speaking with the  'Alliance Defending Freedom'

But Mr Abbott's US address will add to his post-leadership record of spruiking conservative values and right-of-centre policies to like-minded groups abroad. It will also further burnish his credentials as Australia's pre-eminent social conservative, in sharp distinction with the middle-ground of Australian politics, and with that of his replacement, the pro-marriage equality, pro-environment Malcolm Turnbull.

Illustration: Ron Tandberg

 

Attacks by Tony Abbott, Donald Trump: Arch conservatives offer nothing but guff

Date December 10, 2015  Waleed Aly    Columnist

Abbott and Trump are not intelligently discussing Islam, they’re just demonstrating that their brand of politics is fast collapsing.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/comment/attacks-by-tony-abbott-donald-trump-on-muslims-political-theologically-illiterate-20151209-gljz1i.html#ixzz42YBEsX27
Follow us: @smh on Twitter | sydneymorningherald on Facebook

 

 

 

a humorous take on the right wing christian lobby push >

[Bluey's Dad 3,419]

18 hours ago, Wrecker45 said:

Dislike those policies as you will but Abbott succeeded in implementing both as promised by 3 word slogans in his election campaign.

What does Turnbull stand for? About the same as Rudd and Gillard at this stage. And that is generous to Rudd and Gillard because Turnbull hasn't mucked anything up yet.

We're on different sides of the political divide Wrecker, but you're right here. Turnbull hasn't done much. I had high hopes for him initially but really, he hasn't made any significant policy changes. Even his 'everything on the table' tax reform was basically just asking for suggestions so he could say no. 

Better politicians on both sides are required.

If our best PM of the last 5 years turns out to be the one who simply didn't 'muck up anything', we're in a very sorry state of affairs.

At least we're not America eh?

[Earl Hood 5,870]

Tony Turnbull has now acted decisively in calling what will be a DD, I have no doubt because he doesn't really want the Senate to pass the 2 workplace bills and hopes the senators won't. Now as he said the time for playing games is over and it is now of vital national importance that we have this election to determine what? You might think the issues of national importance might be to do with fixing our budget or education inequalities or health or defence or the environment and climate change or the financial sector scandals that are uncovered every week or the tax embargo Being conducted by businesses of all sizes, both local and foreign. 

Well your our dead wrong, the biggest issue facing the nation is the CFMEU and the risk to the "new economy" these thugs pose! Their activities are imperilling the productivity of the construction sector. Last time I walked through the CBD there was a frenzy of apartment building, fuelled by Asian investors and decoupled from local demand for that type of housing, a property bubble in the making! 

Tony Turnbull's interviews yesterday equalled any of the self serving dribble ever uttered by The Abbott or Johnny H.  A total fact free diatribe about the disastrous impact of unions full of nasty, foul mouthed thugs that so shocked the royal commissioner who is more used to dealing with well spoken, private schooled lawyers. 

This is all putting a break on the new economy, whatever that is! Nothing to do with science or communications if we are to take TT's previous actions versus his rhetoric re CSIRO and the NBN. 

I really thought we might get something better from Malcolm 

[dee-luded 2,958]

20 hours ago, Earl Hood said:

Tony Turnbull has now acted decisively in calling what will be a DD, I have no doubt because he doesn't really want the Senate to pass the 2 workplace bills and hopes the senators won't. Now as he said the time for playing games is over and it is now of vital national importance that we have this election to determine what? You might think the issues of national importance might be to do with fixing our budget or education inequalities or health or defence or the environment and climate change or the financial sector scandals that are uncovered every week or the tax embargo Being conducted by businesses of all sizes, both local and foreign. 

Well your our dead wrong, the biggest issue facing the nation is the CFMEU and the risk to the "new economy" these thugs pose! Their activities are imperilling the productivity of the construction sector. Last time I walked through the CBD there was a frenzy of apartment building, fuelled by Asian investors and decoupled from local demand for that type of housing, a property bubble in the making! 

Tony Turnbull's interviews yesterday equalled any of the self serving dribble ever uttered by The Abbott or Johnny H.  A total fact free diatribe about the disastrous impact of unions full of nasty, foul mouthed thugs that so shocked the royal commissioner who is more used to dealing with well spoken, private schooled lawyers. 

This is all putting a break on the new economy, whatever that is! Nothing to do with science or communications if we are to take TT's previous actions versus his rhetoric re CSIRO and the NBN. 

I really thought we might get something better from Malcolm 

 

Malcolm Turnbull is trying to appear like he's in control,  since Jeff Kennett & others thru the media,  have called him weak soft & a non leader.

 

I think he is still on the outer within the Liberal party,  & so therefore those who sided with Turnbull in the challenge,  have backed their positions into a corner Re other cabinet members,  & Lib power players.

 

The Liberals are split (but quietly),  but playing these game to get to the election. in a winning position. 

 

I think Turnbull would like to go on leading,,,  but IMO he recognises he may not last very long,  if the Liberals win this election.

This is why IMO  the rabbot  has started firing shots across Turnbulls bow from a distance,  via the media,  to stay somewhat relevant & in his inner supporters,  & Liberal voters minds.

 

I think Pyne is in this up to his curly ones.  playing the 2 sided game...  hiding the rabbot away prior to the election,   & then later they will harpoon Turnbull at some early-ish point, & have an urgent mini budget,  following winning this 2016 DD Election.

 

Then the old razor gang will reemerge & those horrid cuts to those who cannot afford it will take place.

 

The far right wing around the world are rising with a vengeance,  just as the Islamist's & terrorists are rising...  its all driven by the angry spirit driving this time of troubles which we have entered. 

 

this will IMO lead us to the point of giving up on greedy capitalist ways...   as we go thru No-time...   prior to us entering the new time.  (AOA)

 

.

 

Edited March 23, 2016 by dee-luded

[nutbean 8,837]

I vote that we don't have any election until we get some politicians and parties of substance worth voting for.

There is nothing and nobody across the entire political spectrum that exhibits any vision or leadership.

I am currently practicing my mr magoo sketches to draw on my ballot card.

[Bluey's Dad 3,419]

11 hours ago, Earl Hood said:

I really thought we might get something better from Malcolm 

Me too.

Apparently we were wrong.

He still remains my preference over Shorten though. It used to be by a wide margin, now not so much.

[Wrecker45 3,378]

11 hours ago, Earl Hood said:

Tony Turnbull has now acted decisively in calling what will be a DD, I have no doubt because he doesn't really want the Senate to pass the 2 workplace bills and hopes the senators won't. Now as he said the time for playing games is over and it is now of vital national importance that we have this election to determine what? You might think the issues of national importance might be to do with fixing our budget or education inequalities or health or defence or the environment and climate change or the financial sector scandals that are uncovered every week or the tax embargo Being conducted by businesses of all sizes, both local and foreign. 

Well your our dead wrong, the biggest issue facing the nation is the CFMEU and the risk to the "new economy" these thugs pose! Their activities are imperilling the productivity of the construction sector. Last time I walked through the CBD there was a frenzy of apartment building, fuelled by Asian investors and decoupled from local demand for that type of housing, a property bubble in the making! 

Tony Turnbull's interviews yesterday equalled any of the self serving dribble ever uttered by The Abbott or Johnny H.  A total fact free diatribe about the disastrous impact of unions full of nasty, foul mouthed thugs that so shocked the royal commissioner who is more used to dealing with well spoken, private schooled lawyers. 

This is all putting a break on the new economy, whatever that is! Nothing to do with science or communications if we are to take TT's previous actions versus his rhetoric re CSIRO and the NBN. 

I really thought we might get something better from Malcolm 

Abbott and Johnny H may have been on the opposite side of the political spectrum to your liking but they stood for something. Malcolm Turnbull is a joke. He is trying to campaign to the centre right on Abbott's record and the centre left on his history of climate change advocacy and being a republican. In reality he is isolating both sides with his inaction.

[Wrecker45 3,378]

36 minutes ago, Choke said:

Me too.

Apparently we were wrong.

He still remains my preference over Shorten though. It used to be by a wide margin, now not so much.

What is with the bad candidates? I find myself defending Trump in the Republicans thread, yet I dislike him. I dislike Turnbull but I could never vote for Shorten. I would vote for Albo or Scott Morrison. Is the grass always greener in another paddock?

[nutbean 8,837]

36 minutes ago, Wrecker45 said:

Abbott and Johnny H may have been on the opposite side of the political spectrum to your liking but they stood for something. Malcolm Turnbull is a joke. He is trying to campaign to the centre right on Abbott's record and the centre left on his history of climate change advocacy and being a republican. In reality he is isolating both sides with his inaction.

Even as an avid disliker of Tony Abbott's policies I will agree 100% that he is a "convictions" politician. Irrespective of beliefs, I have always preferred politicians that stand for something as it makes it easier to make a voting decision as you know (in the main) what they will do in power.

[nutbean 8,837]

3 minutes ago, Wrecker45 said:

What is with the bad candidates? I find myself defending Trump in the Republicans thread, yet I dislike him. I dislike Turnbull but I could never vote for Shorten. I would vote for Albo or Scott Morrison. Is the grass always greener in another paddock?

Not only is it greener, but when these pollies step up to the top paddock, their grass can dry out and whither very quickly.

I had high hopes for Julia Gillard - disappointed

I had high hopes for Malcolm Turnbull - disappointed

I am not sure that if an Albo or Morrison got into the top job that they would be able to step up to the plate either. ( that's purely based on the last series of PM's who have promised but failed).

Contrast this to Howard ( who again I was not a huge fan of many of his policies) - he went from "yesterday's man" to the last competent Prime Minister we have had.  

[Wrecker45 3,378]

3 hours ago, nutbean said:

Even as an avid disliker of Tony Abbott's policies I will agree 100% that he is a "convictions" politician. Irrespective of beliefs, I have always preferred politicians that stand for something as it makes it easier to make a voting decision as you know (in the main) what they will do in power.

Thanks Nutbean. I respect your opinion. 

ATM despite disliking Shorten I know what he stands for. Better the devil you know...

 

[dee-luded 2,958]

10 hours ago, nutbean said:

I vote that we don't have any election until we get some politicians and parties of substance worth voting for.

There is nothing and nobody across the entire political spectrum that exhibits any vision or leadership.

I am currently practicing my mr magoo sketches to draw on my ballot card.

I vote they actually make written promises of what they will try to instigate,   & not more or less...

 

Sick of political parties taking a election win & doing something totally different than what was inferred,  but not really clearly articulated in a promise.  (totally over party politics)  so Turnbull's

initiatives,  of making it harder for an independant to run for either house,,,  stinks.

 

more independants please.

[dee-luded 2,958]

8 hours ago, Choke said:

Me too.

Apparently we were wrong.

He still remains my preference over Shorten though. It used to be by a wide margin, now not so much.

its not Malcolm IMO,,,  I think it's the Cabinet.  pulling him down.   Overruling him.   I think he's nothing more than,  'the rights'  election Puppet.

 

7 hours ago, Wrecker45 said:

What is with the bad candidates? I find myself defending Trump in the Republicans thread, yet I dislike him. I dislike Turnbull but I could never vote for Shorten. I would vote for Albo or Scott Morrison. Is the grass always greener in another paddock?

what your noticing is 'presence' or the lack of it.

 

the donald has presence,  Hawke oozed presence, the rabbot only had it in a physical sense, but not as a pollie so much..(had to hide his real motives). 

Shorten I think has 'conviction',  but lacks total self assuredness,  so the presence doesn't sparkle.

 

Albo has self-belief from his inner conviction, he has a presence. 

Morrison is all salesman & bravado,,, & EGO, & has presence from these.  loyalty, hmmmn,,,,  I suspect a narcissist???   the Win is more important to him than what he does IMO.

[Wrecker45 3,378]

On 3/23/2016 at 5:32 PM, dee-luded said:

 

 

what your noticing is 'presence' or the lack of it.

 

the donald has presence,  Hawke oozed presence, the rabbot only had it in a physical sense, but not as a pollie so much..(had to hide his real motives). 

Shorten I think has 'conviction',  but lacks total self assuredness,  so the presence doesn't sparkle.

 

Albo has self-belief from his inner conviction, he has a presence. 

Morrison is all salesman & bravado,,, & EGO, & has presence from these.  loyalty, hmmmn,,,,  I suspect a narcissist???   the Win is more important to him than what he does IMO.

Abbott has never hidden his motives, infact, he has worn his right wing ideology on his sleeve and that is why you hate him.

Shorten has no conviction nor does Turnbull. Both, contrary to Abbott will say whatever is in self interest first.

[dee-luded 2,958]

1 hour ago, Wrecker45 said:

Abbott has never hidden his motives, infact, he has worn his right wing ideology on his sleeve and that is why you hate him.

Shorten has no conviction nor does Turnbull. Both, contrary to Abbott will say whatever is in self interest first.

the rabbot only speaks of the obvious when talking.  (unless its scripted)  written! 

He speaks of his beliefs, yes,  but does not spell out what his cabinet Will Do,  thus allowing himself not to be nailed down to any sort of contract,  which he personally doesn't like.

Even if its what the masses want.

 

So he'll commit to a 'plebiscite',  Re gay marriage & equal rights in marriage,  as it stalls any immediate commitment to do what the majority of Australians want to happen. 

(but the cabinet still have to agree to any yes gay marriage vote after any plebiscite,,,  & then the parliament have to vote to pass it.)  the Liberal pollies won't pass it,  even after a plebiscite....

 

He stalls the things he doesn't want. and avoids a direct answer committing his cabinet/government to a firm decision.

 

So NO,  he does not say what he means,  and will try to deceive Via being indirect 'media talk'.

Edited March 29, 2016 by dee-luded

[nutbean 8,837]

3 hours ago, dee-luded said:

the rabbot only speaks of the obvious when talking.  (unless its scripted)  written! 

He speaks of his beliefs, yes,  but does not spell out what his cabinet Will Do,  thus allowing himself not to be nailed down to any sort of contract,  which he personally doesn't like.

Even if its what the masses want.

 

So he'll commit to a 'plebiscite',  Re gay marriage & equal rights in marriage,  as it stalls any immediate commitment to do what the majority of Australians want to happen. 

(but the cabinet still have to agree to any yes gay marriage vote after any plebiscite,,,  & then the parliament have to vote to pass it.)  the Liberal pollies won't pass it,  even after a plebiscite....

 

He stalls the things he doesn't want. and avoids a direct answer committing his cabinet/government to a firm decision.

 

So NO,  he does not say what he means,  and will try to deceive Via being indirect 'media talk'.

sorry -  disagree on this.

I don't think anything that Abbott did from the first day that he  ook over as leader of the libs was a surprise. From day one what we saw with Abbott was what we got. If anything I think his inflexibility and inability to compromise on his belief's was what cost him in the end.  

 

Edited March 29, 2016 by nutbean