You rate Morton but you don't rate Moloney... And you wonder why people are increasingly finding you out...

Nobody is finding me out stuie.

I reckon you've been found out as a shallow and conservative thinker.

I don't rate either, but I see Morton has it in him but has certain things holding him back, mostly due to mindset and experience, that can be fixed, while Moloney has clear physical and mental limitations that he will never overcome.

Pray tell, when Moloney doesn't have Jamar shoving the ball down his throat, how effective is he?

Not very. A list clogger, but one that I think would have decent value, therefore we should cash in before the whole league "finds him out".

Hitting a target is hitting a target. Doesn't have anything to do with the gameplan. Very shortsighted view.

If the individual player does not have the skill or fitness to execute a disposal effectively it does NOT matter what the gameplan is.

Gameplans don't make players better kicks.

I am actually with Jose on this. A solid game-plan, along with other related factors such as fitness, confidence etc definitely makes everyone looks like they are better kicks.

It's hard to hit a target when no-one is running, everyone is covered and there is no clear target to hit.

A lack of options can make a very good kick look stupid.

Nobody is finding me out stuie.

I reckon you've been found out as a shallow and conservative thinker.

I don't rate either, but I see Morton has it in him but has certain things holding him back, mostly due to mindset and experience, that can be fixed, while Moloney has clear physical and mental limitations that he will never overcome.

Pray tell, when Moloney doesn't have Jamar shoving the ball down his throat, how effective is he?

Not very. A list clogger, but one that I think would have decent value, therefore we should cash in before the whole league "finds him out".

So our best and fairest, and a pretty substantial brownlow vote getter is a "list clogger"?........... Genius, Just pure genius.

I am actually with Jose on this. A solid game-plan, along with other related factors such as fitness, confidence etc definitely makes everyone looks like they are better kicks.

It's hard to hit a target when no-one is running, everyone is covered and there is no clear target to hit.

A lack of options can make a very good kick look stupid.

We've got away from the original point here. I'm not arguing against having a gamplan, what I'm saying is it doesn't matter WHAT the gameplan is if the players trying to execute it don't have the skills and fitness to do so. Fitness covers both being fatigued and having your skill level decrease, and not being able to run into space, to present, or to get to your allocated spot as per the gameplan.

So our best and fairest, and a pretty substantial brownlow vote getter is a "list clogger"?........... Genius, Just pure genius.

He is, whether you choose to accept it or not.

It just shows how much of a rut we're in.

As I said, he gets a lot of footy when Jamar rams it down his throat.

Btw how has Moloney gone this year stuie? And how about Jamar?

Moloney is a one-trick pony who in the past has been carried by Jamar.

Better get something for him now while we still can.

We've got away from the original point here. I'm not arguing against having a gamplan, what I'm saying is it doesn't matter WHAT the gameplan is if the players trying to execute it don't have the skills and fitness to do so. Fitness covers both being fatigued and having your skill level decrease, and not being able to run into space, to present, or to get to your allocated spot as per the gameplan.

We have been here before Stuie...

On the flipside you can have the greatest skill in the universe if you a. don't get the footy b. have no options to get the footy to...then you will not be able to execute your skills..

You said "Gameplans don't make players better kicks."

But wait, this is technically a better list than last year. Sure we lost Scully, but he did bugger all last season, but we added Magner and Clark who have arguably been our best two players over the journey so far. We were better LAST YEAR.

Kidding yourself. We were NOT better last year. Apart from an unconvincing win against GC, we lost 6 of the last 7 games, including some real thrashings.

And better list? Maybe on paper - but take out Jurrah, Sylvia, Gysberts (good performer in our few decent wins) and Scully (see Gysberts, ), take out the likes of Bail, McKenzie and even Grimes (playing, but coming back from longer-term injuries and still off the pace), and we've had many of last year's leading performers effectively off the park.

As an example, look at our Richmond win last year. Of the 12 leading possession getters that day, the following are not currently playing: Scully (26 disposals, 5 tackles), Sylvia, Gysberts, Jurrah, Green, Martin, and Nicholson, and on top of that McKenzie has been off the pace through missing the pre-season. That's 8 out of 12 out or underdone last week, though it's 6 out of the top 9.

He is, whether you choose to accept it or not.

It just shows how much of a rut we're in.

As I said, he gets a lot of footy when Jamar rams it down his throat.

Btw how has Moloney gone this year stuie? And how about Jamar?

Moloney is a one-trick pony who in the past has been carried by Jamar.

Better get something for him now while we still can.

Quick let's trade all our good players because they have value!! Stooge.

You said "Gameplans don't make players better kicks."

Ummm yes I did say that... It's a fact. Practise, training, and improved fitness make better kicks. Why do you think we go to the boundary so much?

Kidding yourself. We were NOT better last year. Apart from an unconvincing win against GC, we lost 6 of the last 7 games, including some real thrashings.

And better list? Maybe on paper - but take out Jurrah, Sylvia, Gysberts (good performer in our few decent wins) and Scully (see Gysberts, ), take out the likes of Bail, McKenzie and even Grimes (playing, but coming back from longer-term injuries and still off the pace), and we've had many of last year's leading performers effectively off the park.

As an example, look at our Richmond win last year. Of the 12 leading possession getters that day, the following are not currently playing: Scully (26 disposals, 5 tackles), Sylvia, Gysberts, Jurrah, Green, Martin, and Nicholson, and on top of that McKenzie has been off the pace through missing the pre-season. That's 8 out of 12 out or underdone last week, though it's 6 out of the top 9.

Just going by on paper (that's what a list is after all) we are better this year IMO. Our results however are not, can't really argue that.

Tom Mac disapointed today with decision making

He's not up to the standard at present, but must be given as much experience as possible this year. It's a huge opportunity for us this season(where the less wins we get the better) to give young big men(likeTom MacDonald,Spencer,Davis and Fitzpatrick) as much game time as possible.

Quick let's trade all our good players because they have value!! Stooge.

No, let's trade our list cloggers who currently have a brief false economy.

No, let's trade our list cloggers who currently have a brief false economy.

Yeah because trading off experienced senior players who are still performing reasonably well has never backfired on us before....

Yeah because trading off experienced senior players who are still performing reasonably well has never backfired on us before....

Sorry, when did he last perform reasonably well?

I must have missed it.

Sorry, when did he last perform reasonably well?

I must have missed it.

See other thread about his Brownlow and BnF stats there buddy boy... You might have missed it because obviously you have your head up your own a#@*!

See other thread about his Brownlow and BnF stats there buddy boy... You might have missed it because obviously you have your head up your own a#@*!

So, you're talking last year, when Jamar was doing all the work for him, and his defensive game was non-existent?

How about now? How's he doing this season?

Just going by on paper (that's what a list is after all) we are better this year IMO. Our results however are not, can't really argue that.

We were not better last year. And a list is irrelevant if those players aren't available to play.

Agree with all of this. Joel Mac is going to struggle.Davey nearly back .Morton showing something(for once). Matty Bate just proving everyone wrong ,Watts losing concentration ,Dunn gone ,Frawley down .Yep a fair and honest assessment of the game and the form of the players .Fumbling/missing targets is killing us .and there is no talk-shepherd etc for the carrier .

Can't agree with you, Davey was on Murphy who nearly single handedly won the game for the Dogs. Did 3 or 3 good things but a poor game and ZERO defensive pressure. Weak attack on the footy on two glaring occasions. Your expectations are so low after Davey's past 2 years that you are happy with what he dished up. Well I'm not. As for saying he is nearly back, you are dreaming and if the club thinks like you we are truly stuffed.

Not sure if you watched the game but Dunn was moved on to Murphy in the 2nd half to curb his dominance. Murphy had 6 second half possessions of which 3 were kicks to himself from a kick in. Dunn actually did his job in the second half.

Lift your expectations and watch a bit more closely.