The shame about the whole Scully saga is that it has highlighted the contempt with which the Fans of football (and specifically, in this case, the MFC fans) are held in by the massively overpaid football industry.

Some examples,

1 - TV Rights deal = huge revenue, players want and get more, game admin want and get more, Fans get... more expensive tickets to games and the pleasure of paying foxtel for what used to be free!

2 - Expansion Teams = huge investment, the 100 mill being pumped into GWS and GC came from the gate receipts, sponsorships and other revenue streams FROM FOOTBALL FANS. Yet the Admin is spending it in a way that strips away and upsets these same fans.

3 - Money Buys success - Fans of the poorer Victorian clubs are annually duped into believing they have a chance when the cold reality is that only the rich Victorian clubs and the expansion clubs win flags. In the past 21 years:

• 9 flags have fallen to the RVs in Collingwood, Hawthorn, Essendon, Carlton and Geelong (once Skilled Stadium converted into a money machine).
  
• 10 flags to expansion teams in West Coast, Brisbane, Port, Sydney
  
• 2 flags to the poor Victorian North(2), St Kilda, Footscray, Richmond, Melbourne...
  

Ho hum... back to waiting for Tom to deign us with his decision.

The only known person on here who actually speaks to Tom about such things. Good on RR, keep burying your head further into the sand. He has much more reason to know something than a self serving journo with the "inside word" from some other self serving person with the "inside word" from another self serv..... you get my drift. At least he knows Tom and speaks to him, has dinner with him etc.

Can you establish this as fact? Go on then ...

The only known person on here who actually speaks to Tom about such things. Good on RR, keep burying your head further into the sand. He has much more reason to know something than a self serving journo with the "inside word" from some other self serving person with the "inside word" from another self serv..... you get my drift. At least he knows Tom and speaks to him, has dinner with him etc.

I think the point was that we have no idea if Wolfmother is actually speaking with Tom, he is an anonymous user on a fan forum. He may be close to Tom, but for all I know he could be another e45 alias. No offence to Wolfmother, but at this stage the posts should not be relied on as facts.

Can you establish this as fact? Go on then ...

You're barking up the wrong tree. WM is Scully's sponsor.

Can you establish this as fact? Go on then ...

If I could even be bothered to trawl back through the millions of pages on this issue there are mentions from others on here of knowing about WM's position, which gives a much clearer picture than "reportedly", "inside word" etc. Aside from that, he is the only person willing to come out and actually risk his reputation (for whateveer that is worth) by stating that they know this from Tom himself, and state how they came to know this info. No-one else has done this so far, they all fall back on "not revealing sources". Oh, actually someone else has done what WM did. Chip Frawley said that Tom had told them he would be at Melbourne next year, on radio, in the public domain. I hav not heard any of your people (Ox, Silvagni et al.) come out and make such a bold statement.

I think the point was that we have no idea if Wolfmother is actually speaking with Tom, he is an anonymous user on a fan forum. He may be close to Tom, but for all I know he could be another e45 alias. No offence to Wolfmother, but at this stage the posts should not be relied on as facts.

Correct. I'm not trying to impugn Wolfmother. I just wouldn't go offering up his quotes based on the fact that I can't confirm who he actually is.

What I can establish as fact is that there are football writers (Barrett and Caro for example) and people such as the Ox who actually know, work with and have interviewed people directly involved in these events.

Established on the record connections.

So Kento, who's really the one with their head buried in the sand?

I think the point was that we have no idea if Wolfmother is actually speaking with Tom, he is an anonymous user on a fan forum. He may be close to Tom, but for all I know he could be another e45 alias. No offence to Wolfmother, but at this stage the posts should not be relied on as facts.

And in my edit, I explained that I don't take them as facts, but give more weight to someone who is willing to put it on the line, and name their source.

You're barking up the wrong tree. WM is Scully's sponsor.

I am pretty sure you are one who knows this Nasher, care to explain it as fact for RR?

Correct. I'm not trying to impugn Wolfmother. I just wouldn't go offering up his quotes based on the fact that I can't confirm who he actually is.

What I can establish as fact is that there are football writers (Barrett and Caro for example) and people such as the Ox who actually know, work with and have interviewed people directly involved in these events.

Established on the record connections.

So Kento, who's really the one with their head buried in the sand?

They never name sources, only shadowy figures (allegedly) in the halls of power. Until they put their balls on the line and state where the info came from it holds absolutely no credence whatsoever. Return head in sand serve.

If I could even be bothered to trawl back through the millions of pages on this issue there are mentions from others on here of knowing about WM's position, which gives a much clearer picture than "reportedly", "inside word" etc. Aside from that, he is the only person willing to come out and actually risk his reputation (for whateveer that is worth) by stating that they know this from Tom himself, and state how they came to know this info. No-one else has done this so far, they all fall back on "not revealing sources". Oh, actually someone else has done what WM did. Chip Frawley said that Tom had told them he would be at Melbourne next year, on radio, in the public domain. I hav not heard any of your people (Ox, Silvagni et al.) come out and make such a bold statement.

David Schwarz made a bold, unequivocal statement on Twitter. I have said this many times.

Silvagni backed it up with a clumsy faux pas on Hutchy's show.

If you can't or won't hear that information, that's up to you but in my book that's the very definition of having your head buried in the sand.

* Hits forehand winner down the line.

I think the point was that we have no idea if Wolfmother is actually speaking with Tom, he is an anonymous user on a fan forum. He may be close to Tom, but for all I know he could be another e45 alias. No offence to Wolfmother, but at this stage the posts should not be relied on as facts.

And therein lies what a few of us have been operating on since day dot. No-one to date has ante'd up with "facts" (sources are not facts) so in the absence of facts we have chosen to believe the only people actually involved first hand in the process. We are relying on statements from Tom and his management and in recent days, The CEO of GWS and Silvagni - yet to make a decision. Now everyone who thinks to the contrary and are suggesting that lies are being told may be absolutely right but it can only be opinion (in the absence of fact) and the in grand scheme of things it doesnt matter one iota because the only thing that counts is official ink on paper.

Play on !

I think the point was that we have no idea if Wolfmother is actually speaking with Tom, he is an anonymous user on a fan forum. He may be close to Tom, but for all I know he could be another e45 alias. No offence to Wolfmother, but at this stage the posts should not be relied on as facts.

Pretty sure Wolfmother and a couple of other 'land posters went to dinner with a few players, including Scully, just last week.

Proof enough for you Thomo?

Davbid Schwarz made a bold statement on Twitter. I have said this many times.

Silvagni backed it up with a clumsy faux pas on Hutchy's show.

I you can't or won't hear that information, that's up to you but in book doing so is the very definition of having your head buried in the sand.

Schwarz's bold statement was that he was 98% sure. That is not so bold because it leaves a get out clause for him to save face if he is wrong. Comprende! You can say it until you are blue in the face, but it won't turn Ox's educated guesswork into fact.

Silvagnis clumsy faux pas showed nothing more than an expression of interest to Scullys management last October, and since Tom is the only one who can be believed on this due to his statement regarding the issue, I think it is fair to suggest that they were told to wait until this season to put an offer.

I can and have hear that information. God I read this thread, how could I not have with you on here. Funny thing is that WM has not said Tom will stay or go, because Tom hasn't told him, because Tom probably hadn't fully made up his mind. Wnat he did say, which goes to show that your journos are full of [censored], is that the monetary value of the offers was considerably lower than reported. And that makes perfect sense because he is not worht one million dollar yet, or even 600k for that matter.

Davbid Schwarz made a bold statement on Twitter. I have said this many times.

Silvagni backed it up with a clumsy faux pas on Hutchy's show.

I you can't or won't hear that information, that's up to you but in book doing so is the very definition of having your head buried in the sand.

The Ox's statement is an opinion not fact. For every Ox statement there is a counter statement elsewhere from someone else.

You have interpreted what Silvagni said in TAC show and it was far from definitive of anything - clumsy - The only facts we have to date is there is a whole heap of misinformation and lies in the public arena and the other fact is we dont really know who the liars or disinformationer's (i dont think thats a word !) are.

And therein lies what a few of us have been operating on since day dot. No-one to date has ante'd up with "facts" (sources are not facts) so in the absence of facts we have chosen to believe the only people actually involved first hand in the process. We are relying on statements from Tom and his management and in recent days, The CEO of GWS and Silvagni - yet to make a decision. Now everyone who thinks to the contrary and are suggesting that lies are being told may be absolutely right but it can only be opinion (in the absence of fact) and the in grand scheme of things it doesnt matter one iota because the only thing that counts is official ink on paper.

Play on !

Silvagni 's comments on Hutchy's show contravene what Scully said in his March presser.

They back up what the Ox said on Twitter.

How do you explain that?

Pretty sure Wolfmother and a couple of other 'land posters went to dinner with a few players, including Scully, just last week.

Proof enough for you Thomo?

I know you're a bit slow on the uptake...

Not too sure about Thomo, but I reckon RR would want photos, as it could be a conspiracy by a number of 'land posters to help their cause by banding together.

Pretty sure Wolfmother and a couple of other 'land posters went to dinner with a few players, including Scully, just last week.

Proof enough for you Thomo?

I know you're a bit slow on the uptake...

Prove it.

And therein lies what a few of us have been operating on since day dot. No-one to date has ante'd up with "facts" (sources are not facts) so in the absence of facts we have chosen to believe the only people actually involved first hand in the process. We are relying on statements from Tom and his management and in recent days, The CEO of GWS and Silvagni - yet to make a decision. Now everyone who thinks to the contrary and are suggesting that lies are being told may be absolutely right but it can only be opinion (in the absence of fact) and the in grand scheme of things it doesnt matter one iota because the only thing that counts is official ink on paper.

Play on !

Agree with eveything except Silvagni said that he had made an offer to Tom last year, and Tom said that he hadn't. One of them is a fact, one of them is lying.

Not too sure about Thomo, but I reckon RR would want photos, as it could be a conspiracy by a number of 'land posters to help their cause by banding together.

No conspiracy Kento, just facts. I'm dealing in them and you aren't.

Why aren't you?

Schwarz's bold statement was that he was 98% sure. That is not so bold because it leaves a get out clause for him to save face if he is wrong. Comprende! You can say it until you are blue in the face, but it won't turn Ox's educated guesswork into fact.

Silvagnis clumsy faux pas showed nothing more than an expression of interest to Scullys management last October, and since Tom is the only one who can be believed on this due to his statement regarding the issue, I think it is fair to suggest that they were told to wait until this season to put an offer.

I can and have hear that information. God I read this thread, how could I not have with you on here. Funny thing is that WM has not said Tom will stay or go, because Tom hasn't told him, because Tom probably hadn't fully made up his mind. Wnat he did say, which goes to show that your journos are full of [censored], is that the monetary value of the offers was considerably lower than reported. And that makes perfect sense because he is not worht one million dollar yet, or even 600k for that matter.

We'll see very shortly whether or not the journos are full of [censored], as you put it. Very shortly.

I look forward to what you have to say when all is announced.

The Ox's statement is an opinion not fact. For every Ox statement there is a counter statement elsewhere from someone else.

You have interpreted what Silvagni said in TAC show and it was far from definitive of anything - clumsy - The only facts we have to date is there is a whole heap of misinformation and lies in the public arena and the other fact is we dont really know who the liars or disinformationer's (i dont think thats a word !) are.

That's your interpretation NB and that's fine.

But at the very least I can say that David Schwarz actually, definitively has contacts at the Melbourne Football Club. Silvagni, from GWS, has made statements that we can analyze and that are relevant.

The same can't be said of anonymous posters. That was the whole reason I commented on Hardtack's statement and opened up this can of worms. Gee whiz.

We'll see very shortly whether or not the journos are full of [censored], as you put it. Very shortly.

I look forward to what you have to say when all is announced.

It won't change a goddam thing, because if he stays, I was right. If he goes, without this proof you ask for, then there is nothing to show that Tom was anything other than truthful throughout this whole process. I have always maintained that I do not know whether or not he will stay or go, but I believe the only person who knows one way or the other what the truth is, and that is Tom.

Pretty sure Wolfmother and a couple of other 'land posters went to dinner with a few players, including Scully, just last week.

Proof enough for you Thomo?

I know you're a bit slow on the uptake...

Any need for the insult?

Schwarz's bold statement was that he was 98% sure. That is not so bold because it leaves a get out clause for him to save face if he is wrong. Comprende! You can say it until you are blue in the face, but it won't turn Ox's educated guesswork into fact.

Mike Sheahan put it nicely when asked how stories can be so wrong. And the answer he gave was that at the time something is written it may be right.

We may never have the insight but if he stays ( here's hoping) that still doesnt prove that he didnt get an offer last year - committed without signing and changed his mind.

We may never have the insight but if he stays ( here's hoping) that still doesnt prove the he never received an offer early , never committed early and only just made up his mind now

We may never have insight but if he goes that still doesnt prove that he got an offer last year - signed early and is now leaving.

We may never have the insight but if he goes that still doesnt proves the he never received an offer early , never committed early and only just made up his mind now.

I think that covers all bases. (oohh if he stays it proves he could not have signed a water tight contract with GWS)

It won't change a goddam thing, because if he stays, I was right. If he goes, without this proof you ask for, then there is nothing to show that Tom was anything other than truthful throughout this whole process. I have always maintained that I do not know whether or not he will stay or go, but I believe the only person who knows one way or the other what the truth is, and that is Tom.

It's a nice, cozy position to take. Having a bit each way and claiming the 'moral high ground'.

But in this instance it's the wrong one. The real 'moral high ground' is attained through logic and reasoning.

Mike Sheahan put it nicely when asked how stories can be so wrong. And the answer he gave was that at the time something is written it may be right.

We may never have the insight but if he stays ( here's hoping) that still doesnt prove that he didnt get an offer last year - committed without signing and changed his mind.

We may never have the insight but if he stays ( here's hoping) that still doesnt prove the he never received an offer early , never committed early and only just made up his mind now

We may never have insight but if he goes that still doesnt prove that he got an offer last year - signed early and is now leaving.

We may never have the insight but if he goes that still doesnt proves the he never received an offer early , never committed early and only just made up his mind now.

I think that covers all bases. (oohh if he stays it proves he could not have signed a water tight contract with GWS)

Agreed 100% NB. The only issue here is that some like myself, rpfc, hardtack, GK et al believe what Tom has to say on the issue and others do not, instead choosing to accept the word of self serving individuals with no proof. This is not to say that they are not correct, but without proving it, Tom is the only one who's word can be taken for what it is.