NFL

[Macca 16,972]

9 minutes ago, Dappa Dan said:

@Gorgoroth@Macca@Clintosaurus

Can they do it? I'm actually (understandably) more confident now in what the Eagles are producing than i was before the first playoff or today's game. Putting aside out tips for a second... I reckon Brady aside, the Eagles list is better all round than Pats.

We haven't really seen the best of the Pats yet ... they're often at their very best against the best - in big games.   1 more year of the Jags in the playoffs might have seen them win today ... but there again, the Pats always seem to 'lift' according to needs. 

One things for sure,  if the Eagles do prevail,  you will have beaten a great team in the process.  I previously made a case for the Eagles winning 1 or 2 playoff games because of the 1 seed and home field advantage but I now believe you can win because of Foles.  If he brings today's form you are right in it.  The rest of the personnel that you have is more than ample.

Gronc could have a big bearing of course ... and Brady,  Belichick,  their OL,  Defense,  Amendola,  Cooks and a running game that can be great on command.

The Eagles will have to bring their very best with no fumbles/interceptions/dropped punts etc.  Philadelphia need to play like they've been to the big stage before.  In recent times we've seen other teams come from nowhere and rise to the occasion (Ravens,  Saints,  Packers,  Seahawks)

 

[Macca 16,972]

From ESPN.com (the Pats are 5.5 favourites) ...

Guide to Super Bowl LII: Predictions, X factors, more for Eagles-Patriots

[Gorgoroth 12,963]

10 hours ago, Macca said:

Being in the NFC we only get to play the good AFC teams once every 4 years ... have you got the Jags next year?  If so you'll also get the Titans,  Colts & Texans.

Agree on that pass interference call ... upon viewing it a number of times the DE overdid the shepherding/pushing.  That fumble should have been allowed to be returned though. 

Delay of game was unforgivable against a team like the Pats.

Nah we played Jags this year in Jacksonville, don’t think we have them at home this year, I just meant their team will be better next year and if Bortles can raise his game to where it was today, they got deep again next season. (If they keep Bortles that is)

[Macca 16,972]

Hey @Dappa Dan

What happens to Foles if he plays well in a SB victory? 

[Gorgoroth 12,963]

Foles for president avatar surely!

[Macca 16,972]

29 minutes ago, Gorgoroth said:

Foles for president avatar surely!

Ha!

Well the Eagles will be going back to Wentz no matter what you'd reckon (?)

[Gorgoroth 12,963]

23 minutes ago, Macca said:

Ha!

Well the Eagles will be going back to Wentz no matter what you'd reckon (?)

100%

Wentz is a star in the making. Foles just might have worked his way to a new team as a starter again tho.

The Jags showed that the pats are beatable and Eagles D can make life ahrd for the pats. 

[Macca 16,972]

55 minutes ago, Gorgoroth said:

100%

Wentz is a star in the making. Foles just might have worked his way to a new team as a starter again tho.

The Jags showed that the pats are beatable and Eagles D can make life ahrd for the pats. 

Has a SB winning QB (who has played well) ever ended up at another team the following year?

Edited January 23, 2018 by Macca

[Gorgoroth 12,963]

2 hours ago, Macca said:

Has a SB winning QB (who has played well) ever ended up at another team the following year?

Not sure, maybe if he chose to leave I could see it.

But let’s face it, if the Eagles win th3 SB and they are a good show of it, then Foles might choose to leave rather than go back to a back up, or he might be happy to revert back. I doubt Philly will ask him to leave but teams like the Redskins might speak to him.

[Macca 16,972]

40 minutes ago, Gorgoroth said:

Not sure, maybe if he chose to leave I could see it.

But let’s face it, if the Eagles win th3 SB and they are a good show of it, then Foles might choose to leave rather than go back to a back up, or he might be happy to revert back. I doubt Philly will ask him to leave but teams like the Redskins might speak to him.

Let's assume for a minute that the Eagles win and Foles wins the MVP (QB's that excel in a winning SB often win the MVP)

There's no way he ends up as a back-up anywhere after that which means he'd have to be out of the Philadelphia organisation soon after (Wentz would take up the starting role instead) 

Now,  I'm not sure the above will happen but it could happen.  Ryan Clark posed the question on 'Golic & Wingo' last night.  Cast your mind back a month and it's hard to envisage this sort of conversation happening this week (re Foles)

But there's no denying that the bloke played a tremendous game against the Vikes - even his long throws were accurate and game-clinching.  He looks a completely different player.

Anyway,  it seems that we have seen a number of stand-in QB's winning a Super Bowl before Gorg - read more here ...

9 teams that won the Super Bowl with a backup quarterback

 

 

 

Edited January 23, 2018 by Macca

[Macca 16,972]

Here's a few podcasts with the discussion focusing on the 2 Championship games and the prospects of the Pats & Eagles in the Super Bowl ...

 

Bill Simmons/Cousin Sal - The Hand of Brady with Special Guest Tony Romo (Ep. 317)

 

NFL Live - The NFL Live crew reacts to Championship Sunday and talks the future of Case Keenum and Blake Bortles.

 

Bill Barnwell - Super Bowl LII Set: 1/22/18 ... Bill talks to Mike Reiss about the Patriots' comeback win over the Jaguars in the AFC Championship Game and then to Kevin Seifert about a tough loss for the Vikings to the Eagles in the NFC Championship Game.

 

 

 

[Gorgoroth 12,963]

11 hours ago, Macca said:

Let's assume for a minute that the Eagles win and Foles wins the MVP (QB's that excel in a winning SB often win the MVP)

There's no way he ends up as a back-up anywhere after that which means he'd have to be out of the Philadelphia organisation soon after (Wentz would take up the starting role instead) 

Now,  I'm not sure the above will happen but it could happen.  Ryan Clark posed the question on 'Golic & Wingo' last night.  Cast your mind back a month and it's hard to envisage this sort of conversation happening this week (re Foles)

But there's no denying that the bloke played a tremendous game against the Vikes - even his long throws were accurate and game-clinching.  He looks a completely different player.

Anyway,  it seems that we have seen a number of stand-in QB's winning a Super Bowl before Gorg - read more here ...

9 teams that won the Super Bowl with a backup quarterback

 

 

 

Warner and a few of those had pretty much full years and won the games to get them there. Foles got 2 games in the regular season.

[Gorgoroth 12,963]

Tbh tho, foles nearly gave the game away so I could see him staying but just as easily cpuld go.

[Macca 16,972]

1 hour ago, Gorgoroth said:

Tbh tho, foles nearly gave the game away so I could see him staying but just as easily cpuld go.

Money talks ... if Foles plays well in a winning SB team the offers will come thick & fast.  And the Eagles won't be able to match it.  

Any NFL player is always looking for the big pay day ... the Eagles will have to pay Wentz big money to keep him.  And they wouldn't be able to pay good money to Wentz & Foles.

The above is all based on Foles doing well in a winning SB but that was the original question. 

[Gorgoroth 12,963]

1 hour ago, Macca said:

Money talks ... if Foles plays well in a winning SB team the offers will come thick & fast.  And the Eagles won't be able to match it.  

Any NFL player is always looking for the big pay day ... the Eagles will have to pay Wentz big money to keep him.  And they wouldn't be able to pay good money to Wentz & Foles.

The above is all based on Foles doing well in a winning SB but that was the original question. 

Even playibg well in a losing SB would help. Hell last week might be enough. In the right scheme he is quality. Tge Eagles said they watched old film of Foles abd what he did well and implemented it. Working well so far.

[Macca 16,972]

10 hours ago, Gorgoroth said:

Even playing well in a losing SB would help. Hell last week might be enough. In the right scheme he is quality. The Eagles said they watched old film of Foles and what he did well and implemented it. Working well so far.

Reckon you're right ... and their coach (Pederson) is right on top of things when considering the highlighted bit. 

Maybe that Rams system works 'later on' for QB's - Keenum,  Foles and Goff have all blossomed away from Fisher.  If Bradford could stay healthy there's another.

[Gorgoroth 12,963]

8 hours ago, Macca said:

Reckon you're right ... and their coach (Pederson) is right on top of things when considering the highlighted bit. 

Maybe that Rams system works 'later on' for QB's - Keenum,  Foles and Goff have all blossomed away from Fisher.  If Bradford could stay healthy there's another.

The Rams didn’t have a system. Fisher got Gurley as he wanted a run offence which he has always preferred but our O line was very very average, and our WR were super poor. 

Not a good combo.

Just proves that fisher was an idiot.

[Macca 16,972]

2 hours ago, Gorgoroth said:

The Rams didn’t have a system. Fisher got Gurley as he wanted a run offence which he has always preferred but our O line was very very average, and our WR were super poor. 

Not a good combo.

Just proves that fisher was an idiot.

I didn't say it was a good system ... but it was a system nonetheless (think the Demons/Neeld/Schwab etc)

Most QB's need excellent systems - even Brady,  Brees & Rodgers need at least good support systems.  The thing that stands out about Belichick is that he gives Brady an excellent support system.  With McCarthy,  he puts the onus on Rodgers too much (running game often poor,  OL often average) 

Brady is playing in his 8th SB where as Rodgers & Brees have 1 appearance each.  The difference is the coaching & a great system.  But if a team is continually in the playoffs like Green Bay often is,  people often assume that the coaching is first rate.  The Packers more often than not make the playoffs because of Rodgers.  And the back-up QB's to Rodgers are often hopeless ... therefore,  there is no plan B.

Sean Payton has changed the way he coaches - he's built a strong running game to support Brees.  Their defense needs to get better but it has also improved.  He may have changed out of necessity because of Brees' age.

Edited January 24, 2018 by Macca

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

On 23/01/2018 at 3:54 PM, Macca said:

Hey @Dappa Dan

What happens to Foles if he plays well in a SB victory? 

 

On 24/01/2018 at 8:26 AM, Macca said:

Any NFL player is always looking for the big pay day ... the Eagles will have to pay Wentz big money to keep him.  And they wouldn't be able to pay good money to Wentz & Foles.

 

It's certainly an interesting one. Having gone over the game non stop since last weekend, with a big dumb grin on my face, some of the stats really smack you in the face in a big way. Things like noone has ever had a better passer rating in a Championship game. He hit some stupidly high percentage of third downs against the best 3rd down defense in history (regular season). Jaw dropping things really. Assuming Foles has even an adequate game in the superbowl, and not a disaster that tarnishes his name (Keenum for example)... then he'll be starting somewhere next year. I mean... let's be honest... he's done enough already.... and when you look at his background as a player, he's now firmly and comfortably installed as a better player that 10-15 players currently starting as QBs. Actually that'd be an interesting experiment, everyone's top-down QB starters list. I'll get the ball rolling in another post....

In terms of what Eagles do Macca, a lot depends on Wentz next year. A lot of talk he'll only come back mid season... And when he does... Will he be in tip top shape. He can play well in the pocket, sure, but what makes him an MVP is his movement, as we've discussed at length.

Foles is contracted through next season. Eagles will want a high-profile backup... But the truth is Foles has earned the right to start in a team. Simple as that. My take is that we'll beg him to stay, and pony up every cent we can on a restructured contract... and  it won't be enough. It's interesting on the Wentz thing above you mentioned. He won't be on the super big dollars for another couple of seasons yet. Nor will Ajayi who's on his rookie contract through 2018.

I can't imagine how it would work... Keeping Foles as starter for only HALF of a season, but signing him for the full one... It's just daft. He has to go while his price is sky high. The ONLY WAY I can see him staying for just these twelve months is if Eagles shift about 10 mil... AND they come out and explain that Wentz's recovery timetable is more likely to see him come back a few weeks before the end of the season. If Foles is installed as the starter for the whole season, then yeah, staying for 12 more months at a superbowl level team might entice. He has an amazing relationship with Carson too. TBH though... I feel like I'm just clutching at straws. He's gone. And it leaves a MASSIVE hole. If Carson misses the bulk of 2018, and the backups are Sudfeld and some other guy... then it's gonna be tough even making playoffs. Which is really a disaster for the club. The time is NOW with all these low price rookies playing like pro bowlers.

Only thing I feel is important here is what do the Eagles get for a superbowl MVP (maybe? lol)... First rounder? If there's 5-6 teams asking for him... Teams up the top of the draft board... It could drive the price up. Cardinals for example with pick 15. Skins with 13 if Cousins goes. Jets pick 6 you'd think they'd go a rookie. Bills at 21 with a terrific defense and a lot of offensive weapons. Eagles could package their pick 31/32 and Foles for one of those early ones. THAT has me excited. It's amazing how crazy his trajectory has been. Traded away under Kelly with a second rounder for Bradford. Dropped. And he's about to be traded away again for potentially A LOT more. How fun is the NFL.

[Macca 16,972]

Great post @Dappa Dan - you've just about covered every possible permutation. 

We can't say "It's a good problem to have" because Wentz may well not be fit and firing until next season is well under way. 

But if you win your first Super Bowl who cares? ... just party for a year.  I'm still dining out on the Packers win in 2010/11.  It feels like yesterday.  Even the win in '96/'97 is something I regularly savour. 

There's 32 teams ... even just winning once is a damn hard thing to do.

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

QB Index as I see it... A lazy rough order to see where Foles sits. This is a list with an eye on trade value and value over the next couple of seasons. Manning for example would be high in terms of history... but in the next couple of seasons playing at Giants, he might not do too much.

1. Brady

2. Rodgers

3. Wentz

4. Wilson

5. Ryan

6. Brees

7. Rothlisberger

8. Newton

9. Stafford

10. Watson

11. Rivers

12. Goff

13. Carr

14. Prescott

15. Smith

16. Cousins

17. Mariotta

18. Winston

19. Manning

20. Dalton

21. Foles....

That's not too bad. In no particular order I have underneath him...  Bortles, Keenum, Flacco, Garroppolo, Bradford, Bridgewater, Siemienn, Osweiller, Keenum, Brissett, McCown, Kizer, Taylor and Trubiski...

Some of those names will be gone in three years. Ben, Brees, Brady, Rivers, Manning... Foles is still young (28) and is a pocket guy who can play into his late 30s. 

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

25 minutes ago, Macca said:

Great post @Dappa Dan - you've just about covered every possible permutation. 

We can't say "It's a good problem to have" because Wentz may well not be fit and firing until next season is well under way. 

But if you win your first Super Bowl who cares? ... just party for a year.  I'm still dining out on the Packers win in 2010/11.  It feels like yesterday.  Even the win in '96/'97 is something I regularly savour. 

There's 32 teams ... even just winning once is a damn hard thing to do.

Couldn't agree more mate. Looking at the positive media on the club, ownership, coaches and individual players... it's almost Tigers like when they won the flag. Eagles beat out 15 other teams fair and square... Tigers beat 17... so it's not far off. I've never known what it's like to see a playoff win let alone win the NFC, let alone with the injuries they had. I was on cloud nine already because Wentz is at the club for another ten years. All this other "winning" stuff is like a fever dream.

The things people are writing and saying, how Eagles are set up for years. I can absolutely see how you would look back on 2010 highlights and every time it'd make you smile. This is all new landscape for me, even as a demons fan. And they haven't even won a title.

Very true too... that it's a huge problem. Even when everything goes right, making a superbowl is ridiculously hard. We see how quickly teams can fall away. Dallas for example. If the Eagles don't pounce this year and next, the price will go through the roof. Guys like Jernigan and the secondary will be shipped off or leave through FA. De Filippo and Schwartz, who many say is the teams MVP this season, could be head coaches in a few weeks.

Don't get me wrong, the most vital pieces are there... Cox, Wentz, Jefferey, Johnson, Kelce... But you know in  just under 12 months your team can just as easily be 9-6 and praying to make playoffs in week 17. 

Edited January 26, 2018 by Dappa Dan

[Macca 16,972]

3 minutes ago, Dappa Dan said:

Couldn't agree more mate. Looking at the positive media on the club, ownership, coaches and individual players... it's almost Tigers like when they won the flag. Eagles beat out 15 other teams fair and square... Tigers beat 17... so it's not far off. I've never known what it's like to see a playoff win let alone win the NFC, let alone with the injuries they had. I was on cloud nine already because Wentz is at the club for another ten years. All this other "winning" stuff is like a fever dream.

The things people are writing and saying, how Eagles are set up for years. I can absolutely see how you would look back on 2010 highlights and every time it'd make you smile. This is all new landscape for me, even as a demons fan. And they haven't even won a title.

Very true too... that it's a huge problem. Even when everything goes right, making a superbowl is ridiculously hard. We see how quickly teams can fall away. Dallas for example. If the Eagles don't pounce this year and next, the price will go through the roof. Guys like Jernigan and the secondary will be shipped off or leave through FA. De Filippo and Schwartz, who many say is the teams MVP this season, could be head coaches in a few weeks.

Don't get me wrong, the most vital pieces are there... Cox, Wentz, Jefferey, Johnson, Kelce... But you know in  just under 12 months your team can just as easily be 9-6 and praying to make playoffs in week 17. 

It's the only league in world sport where ...

• It's entirely possible to come from nowhere in a short space of time (1-3 years) and contend.
• It's also possible to stay at the top indefinitely (New England)
• You get it wrong with poor decisions you stay down (Cleveland)
• In any given year any division can and does flip/flop (except it seems the AFC East!)

It's absolutely a 'no-excuse' league ... every team gets injuries and if a major injury hurts your club,  that's often on the club in question.  No plan B - fail.

The Pats have shown every other club how to go about it.  I follow a stack of different sports Dappa and the NFL is the frontrunner in terms of maintaining interest throughout the season and in the playyoffs.  It's miles ahead in fact.

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

6 minutes ago, Macca said:

It's the only league in world sport where ...

• It's entirely possible to come from nowhere in a short space of time (1-3 years) and contend.
• It's also possible to stay at the top indefinitely (New England)
• You get it wrong with poor decisions you stay down (Cleveland)
• In any given year any division can and does flip/flop (except it seems the AFC East!)

It's absolutely a 'no-excuse' league ... every team gets injuries and if a major injury hurts your club,  that's often on the club in question.  No plan B - fail.

The Pats have shown every other club how to go about it.  I follow a stack of different sports Dappa and the NFL is the frontrunner in terms of maintaining interest throughout the season and in the playyoffs.  It's miles ahead in fact.

Yup. Although that unpredictability does comes at a cost. The way teams change from year to year and players jump to different clubs... It's of huge influence. What would Eagles be like without Alshon, Jernigan and Darby. You're right that it's great, but I fear demons leaving our current list as it is... 

[Macca 16,972]

14 minutes ago, Dappa Dan said:

Yup. Although that unpredictability does comes at a cost. The way teams change from year to year and players jump to different clubs... It's of huge influence. What would Eagles be like without Alshon, Jernigan and Darby. You're right that it's great, but I fear demons leaving our current list as it is... 

Each club has got 168 million to spend ... the good clubs will anticipate losing players but will endeavour to replace those players with better players.  Free Agency,  trading, a well managed salary cap and the draft allows a club to recover very quickly from what might seem like doom & gloom.

However,  there is still the odd team that are too draft conscious or are free-agency shy.  Even so,  Belichick keeps moving the goalposts - he's gone away from drafting (somewhat) and now often prefers to trade for talent.  He's about the right-now but a lot of the great coaches often are (in other sports as well - especially soccer) 

They are going to be tough to beat in the Super Bowl but if you can knock them off it will be memorable (much like the Eli & the Giants wins are seen as memorable)

But the Eagles only have to do it once.  Just one time.

 

Edited January 26, 2018 by Macca