Note to everyone: Jones is only 3 years older than Scully, Trengove, Gysberts and the same age as Jurrah, Bail, Wonna and Garland. Grimes and Cheney is only 1 year younger than him. Look up the ages of the rest of the kids i.e Frawley, Jetta, Bennell, Watts, Mckenzie, Petters, etc and you will quickly see that he fits into this group of kids we keep talking about being our future.

and yet there is so much talk about him being overtaken or not having a place when these kids develop - HE IS ONE OF THESE KIDS. It's just that he has had to undertake his development in the AFL - in a weak side and more often than not tagged.

Improvement will come as a byproduct of him developing from kid to man (same as most of them) and the improved quality of the team around him.

Nathan Jones will have to improve.....he may well be a 'kid' like the many we have.....these just means more pressure for this 'kid' as others come through. Kids like Scully, Trengove, Gysberts, Grimes...etc etc have more natural talent than Nath....there is no doubt of this and we can all see this. This doesn't of course mean that Nath cannot become an important member of the team and extract every ounce of talent out of himself that he can. It is easy to sit back and make consensus on talent alone and if I were to draw up IMO my best Dees team from 2011/2012 onwards, Nath wouldn't be in it. Is this a slight on him...I wouldn't have though so, especially as my 'opinion' carries no weight. One thing I am certain of is that Nath and Beamer cannot be in the possible best side from 2012, this would mean some of the 'more talented' kids haven't come on as expected. Skull and JT have already shown they will kick goals from the middle and in todays footy this is more important than ever.....don't think Beamer or Nath posses this in them.

Nath doesn't need to go looking at other players at other teams for inspiration though......he has it all there within his own club....being Junior to see that you can achieve great things without being naturally talented.

The fact that we are beginning to argue this point, to me is just another sign of how quickly we are improving and how deep our list is becoming.

May the passionate discussion continue!

Kids like Scully, Trengove, Gysberts, Grimes...etc etc have more natural talent than Nath....there is no doubt of this and we can all see this.

Probably true regarding those 4. Through there have been dozens of champions after 1 game of AFL. What I want to know who is all these other people who have more talent. You imply that the fact these 4 are better means Jones will lose his spot. Are we playing basketball now. Maric was the next great thing 6 months ago, with lots of talent to burn and where has that gone? Newton was the sparkling talent eighteen months prior and what happened. Mclean was a talent to burn too for years and where is he?

Personally I can name maybe eight people with more talent. Your 4, Davey, jurrah, watts(?), morton (?), green (?)

and lots who I rate below him, bennel, jetta, garland, rivers, macdonald, mcdonald (give Jones 5 years experience before comparing), warnock, moloney, petterd. bruce (?), bartram (?), mckenzie (?). Different positions for some but if we are talking talent....

Jones has improved for three years running. Others I have seen improve year on year have been mcdonald (as you rightly point out) and green, his continuous improvement is gratifying.

It annoys me that many people are imagining that our untried talent are bound to be as good as grimes. Grimes has been special, if one of the untried end up as good as Jones that is a good result. If three or four end up pushing Jones out then I think we will win straight premierships for a decade.

Out of all our young guns, Scully is the only genuine in-and-under midfielder. We're gonna need more than one, and Jones will be the next best.

Who is sounding 10 years old now? By stating "happy to be proven wrong" I mean I would not be disappointed if he developed in the way some people on here expect. I hold nothing against Nathan just dont hold him in the regard of some such as yourself on this site.

Would you have him in your starting 18 now? Would be keen to see what your starting 18 looks like and who yould put him ahead of?

He has been on the list for 5 years and I would not have him in our best 18 now. The list of untried kids and underdeveloped first and second year players will develop you would expect at a more advanced rate in the next 2 years than someone who is already 5 years and 80 games into their career. Not all of them may make it there is a wave of them untried and if I dont have him in my first 18 now I cant see how that will change.

Word of advice dont put a thread up here if you're just looking for people to pat you on the back and tell you your right.

Read greenmachines post, exactly my thoughts. Your making a lot of assumptions.

Probably true regarding those 4. Through there have been dozens of champions after 1 game of AFL. What I want to know who is all these other people who have more talent. You imply that the fact these 4 are better means Jones will lose his spot. Are we playing basketball now. Maric was the next great thing 6 months ago, with lots of talent to burn and where has that gone? Newton was the sparkling talent eighteen months prior and what happened. Mclean was a talent to burn too for years and where is he?

Personally I can name maybe eight people with more talent. Your 4, Davey, jurrah, watts(?), morton (?), green (?)

and lots who I rate below him, bennel, jetta, garland, rivers, macdonald, mcdonald (give Jones 5 years experience before comparing), warnock, moloney, petterd. bruce (?), bartram (?), mckenzie (?). Different positions for some but if we are talking talent....

Jones has improved for three years running. Others I have seen improve year on year have been mcdonald (as you rightly point out) and green, his continuous improvement is gratifying.

It annoys me that many people are imagining that our untried talent are bound to be as good as grimes. Grimes has been special, if one of the untried end up as good as Jones that is a good result. If three or four end up pushing Jones out then I think we will win straight premierships for a decade.

You say Nath has improved over the last 3 years.....I'm not so sure about that, yes that has been improvement but IMO only in his in and under....besides 3-4 times this year he still struggles to hit targets as he brings the ball to his boot sideways...I'm not sure that I would rate Moloney below him, nor Bruce as much as I am nor a critic of Bruce as there is one player who to me has not improved at all since 2006.

I do get your point on people (including me!) imagining untried talent being a sure thing to bring that talent to fruition.....I guess this is more in hope of what you see and hear. Look I have nothing against Nath (he is my wifes favourtie for one!) but maybe it's just 35 years of watching us go up and down on the back of players that while they give their all are not really the cream that is required to win flags and isnt that what we are all watching and waiting for?!

If Nath is part of the group to bring that premiership home......great!

Out of all our young guns, Scully is the only genuine in-and-under midfielder. We're gonna need more than one, and Jones will be the next best.

IMO.....Gysberts is the in and under.....not just from one game at the dees...watch him at Casey, at TAC Cup....if he continues that at senior level he is an in and under gun that finds space and uses the ball!

Read greenmachines post, exactly my thoughts. Your making a lot of assumptions.

Still waiting to see your starting 18 to see who misses out.....

No doubt he's improved in 'some' areas but his awareness is, and always has been, a huge worry for mine. That's something I don't think you can improve a great deal can you?!

Out of all our young guns, Scully is the only genuine in-and-under midfielder. We're gonna need more than one, and Jones will be the next best.

This year Jones has been able to play more of an outside role with the inclusion of Scully, now Gysberts, and the stellar clearance form of Moloney (Ranked #2 in the league). IMO, Jones doesn't have the spatial awareness or quickness of hands to play as a true insider. He is wrapped up/caught too often, and unlike Scully and Moloney, doesn't seem to get his hands free often enough whilst being tackled.

He's a funny one Jonesy!!

In 2007 he was brilliant and a clear standout in what was a poor midfield at the time

In 2008 he struggled in handling a tag every week

Since then he has changed the way he plays by prefering to take tackles on and get boot to ball but the problem is that more often than not he gets pinned then even if he does break free his disposal oftens lets him down.

Don't get me wrong I am a fan of his but at this stage if the club were to make a decision like they did with Brock McLean last year there would be a fair chance he could be traded to secure an earlier pick