A sh!t situation is a sh!t situation, no matter who is in charge.

No rose-tinted glasses here, I'm just saying that it doesn't make Schwab & Stynes incompetent, as it is a hard task. There's accepting mediocrity and then there's having realistic expectations.

NB. Although Stynes has been in the job for 6 months, i think ultimately the responsibility for this lies with the CEO.

Schwab, however, has been in the position for less than that, closer to 3 or 4 months I think.

As for you I'va - you're not much better.

Give me a break - who else are you going to blame? This has all happened on Jim's watch. It seems like nothing could be blamed on the current board if you had it your way.

And as for

well that's just the lowest cop out yet.

Allow me to remind you again of what you posted back in August.

The best "timing" for the announcement would have been the same day that Primus announced that they were not renewing their sponsorship.

Most people on these forums seem to be more one-eyed than Collingwood supporters when it comes to "big Jimma and the boys."

Well, the honeymoon is over. Time for a little bit of reality, critical thinking and common sense in these debates please.

You're kiddin.......right?

The problem with forums........and yes, I am just as guilty, is that the protaganists tend to read opposite posts, pluck the eyes out of them, to slag the previous poster.

What saddens me about this forum is that most claim to be avid and fearless Dees supporters. Yet they will slag a bloke/girl on this forum that they may well stand next to at the footy, without even realising.

I know most love this footy club, but for 44 years, it has been my life.

Other than the 64 GF, I have seen no better story for the MFC than Jimma. Thimgs are tough for us right now, but while I respect everyone's right to their opinion, equally, I challenge, everyone on this forum to be a voice of solidarity for this great footy club, before the first bounce this year.

Forum members, let's agree on a venue, and have a pre-season p*ss up to show the Demon solidarity and just how much we love this bloody footy club. Let's show the filth why the MFC beat 'em in so many GF's............... Who's with me here????!!!!!

Not forgetting that, relatively, I am an old man and can only drink half shots of Jack Daniels.

As Jeff Fenech would say, I loves youse all.

Cheers and go Dees.

And BTW - ever stop to think "Who were the players in receipt of the under the counter payments?".

"Progress, far from consisting in change, depends on retentiveness. When change is absolute there remains no being to improve and no direction is set for possible improvement: and when experience is not retained, as among savages, infancy is perpetual. Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. In the first stage of life the mind is frivolous and easily distracted, it misses progress by failing in consecutiveness and persistence. This is the condition of children and barbarians, in which instinct has learned nothing from experience". (George Santayana The Life of Reason, Volume 1, 1905).

So take some of your own advice and don't go there....

A sh!t situation is a sh!t situation, no matter who is in charge.

No rose-tinted glasses here, I'm just saying that it doesn't make Schwab & Stynes incompetent, as it is a hard task. There's accepting mediocrity and then there's having realistic expectations.

NB. Although Stynes has been in the job for 6 months, i think ultimately the responsibility for this lies with the CEO.

Schwab, however, has been in the position for less than that, closer to 3 or 4 months I think.

I'm just saying what it is. Jim has been in charge for six months. He has failed to re-sign our major sponsor. He has failed to secure a new one.

The resonsibilty for the CEO ultimately lies with the chairman.

Jim sacked a CEO whose greatest strength was probably his ability to attract sponsors, 8 days before the Primus deal could be finalised!

Back in August, Jim groupies like you were saying stuff like this:

A charismatic, well-recognised and actively-involved figure such as Jim as president renders all but the most well-connected CEO redundant in finding sponsorship.

I will stick my neck out and say that Primus punching out will be insignificant, even within the next 12 months.

Jim sacked the "well-connected CEO" before he had a replacement lined up. Jim oversaw the Spargo caretakership. Jim refused the offer of potentially stabilising free assitance from previous board-member John Phillips. And, Jim appointed his mate Schwab as the new CEO (in what can only be described as a debacle).

So lets not have any of this - "just because Jim's been the chairman for the last six months doesn't matter because he wasn't the CEO", we both know that this line is utter rubbish.

And on the matter of the current CEO and his responsibilities - just how long would you give him before you started raising an eyebrow at our lack of sponsorship anyway?

By my calculations, Schwab has been in the role for exactly the same amount of time that Paul McNamee was. Of course, Schwab hasn't had to contend with board upheaval and unsupportive administration like P MAc did. Shall I remind you of what the unthinking acolytes of Jim were saying about the decision to drop McNamee after his 106 day tenure? (which was also a complete fiasco by the way)

He was never popular at Tennis Aust is an outspoken, arrogant political nightmare so good bye Macca, thanks for your 4 months, glad you enjoyed Wimbeldon and then an extended holiday in France whilst your club was goling under, unbleiveable some you blokes!

(false allegation by the way)

again must i say!!!

THE MFC dont have time to sit on average individuals that go on holidays and have no football experience....... i agree it would be nice to have let him do a yr or maybe more...

but we are in dire straights and cannot afford the wrong people on board.

forgetting the fact that it looks bad... to be a successful club you need a C.E.O that is doing the job and doing it well... he clearly wasnt and was hired on gardner's watch...

Can you forget the issue of how bad it looks and worry about the friggen club and how the club is run......

(Nice to see someone putting the boot into Gardner again.)

Lighten up everyone.

Surely the new Board would have only taken such a dramatic, controversial and costly step if it had good reasons. Or do some of the posters here think they are all crazy?

Surely by now we should have no faith that the old Board got the appointment right.

So give Jim a break. He's clearing the decks so we can start afresh. Hopefully he has got it right.

Judge ONLY by the outcome over the next year or so.

(how about we judge by the outcome over the next 6 months or so?)

I could go on, but the point is made. When it involves Jimmy then people will come up with any excuse they can.

106 days is not long enough for Schwab to get a sponsor but it's long enough for P. Mac to be useless.

People would be using very different language in their discussion of our current sponsorship situation if Jim wasn't in charge.

This is not good enough. The neverending propensity of people to just "have faith in Jimma" because he's a brownlow medallist may end up costing our club dearly.

This state of affairs is made all the more worrying by people like I'va. People who love the club completely and want what's best for it but who can't possibly bring themselves to beleive that Jim might be a mortal man like any other.

The problem with forums........and yes, I am just as guilty, is that the protaganists tend to read opposite posts, pluck the eyes out of them, to slag the previous poster.

What saddens me about this forum is that most claim to be avid and fearless Dees supporters. Yet they will slag a bloke/girl on this forum that they may well stand next to at the footy, without even realising.

I have seen no better story for the MFC than Jimma.

I'va, I don't doubt that you love the club. I'm sure you'd be a great person to stand next to at the footy.

I wasn't "slagging you off" at all (not that that would make me less passionate about my club anyway) - I was criticising the misplaced jingoism that you represent.

Whilst we can both agree that the Jim Stynes story was a great one, this does not mean that he will be good for the club in an administrative role. When I was trying to make this point six months ago I copped a lot of flack from posters like you. People seemed to think that I didn't love the club just because I didn't uncritically jump on the Stynes bandwagon. At the time I was merely reserving my judgement whilst pointing out some early signs of concern (like P. MAc learning about his dismissal through the papers). Six months later and no sponsor and I am beginning to become seriously and legitimately concerned about the situation - regardless of what Jim acheived for the club on the field. I only hope, like everyone else here, that this current chapter in the Stynes story doesn't end as bitterly as the Ridley story did.

You do not have to have blind faith in Jim in order to care about your club. People with mature minds will judge the current board by the same standards as any other - because it is ultimately the future of the club that matters, not the playing history of the chairman.

Point of clarification: for me this was never about the Stynes board versus any other.

I liked the idea of McNamee as CEO to the extent he was used to running a major sporting event, but the ATO is starkly different to running a year-round footy club. I think the Gardner board fell for that dummy promotional ad McNamee put together. Who knows, maybe he'd have been good?

For my two bob's worth, the way McNamee was sacked was unprofessional and damaging to the club. It also gave the impression of the old boys moving back.

The only saving grace to that shoddy business is that we ended with Cameron Schwab as ceo. If we had not finished with him it would have been a disaster. I hope he gets us a sponsor, and I hope they are sitting on the captaincy announcement in order to do the sponsor thing first.

WHAT IN THE HELL IS GOING ON!!!!!!!!!!!

I sat through a club split in a very angry month and to be honest I still cant figure why people voted to become hawks.

Now this rubbish throwing quotes at one another that in all honestly most people dont care a crap about.

If you want a quote heres one

"I DONT CARE IF IT RAINS OR FREEZES AS LONG AS I AM IN THE ARMS OF JESUS.

It makes AS MUCH SENSE as any of the above.

Lets pull together or we are doomed.

ONE TOWN, ONE TEAM, ONE PASSION.

WHAT IN THE HELL IS GOING ON!!!!!!!!!!!

I sat through a club split in a very angry month and to be honest I still cant figure why people voted to become hawks.

Now this rubbish throwing quotes at one another that in all honestly most people dont care a crap about.

If you want a quote heres one

"I DONT CARE IF IT RAINS OR FREEZES AS LONG AS I AM IN THE ARMS OF JESUS.

It makes AS MUCH SENSE as any of the above.

Lets pull together or we are doomed.

ONE TOWN, ONE TEAM, ONE PASSION.

I totally agree - PM one another rather than annoy or bother the rest of us!

You're kiddin.......right?

The problem with forums........and yes, I am just as guilty, is that the protaganists tend to read opposite posts, pluck the eyes out of them, to slag the previous poster.

What saddens me about this forum is that most claim to be avid and fearless Dees supporters. Yet they will slag a bloke/girl on this forum that they may well stand next to at the footy, without even realising.

I know most love this footy club, but for 44 years, it has been my life.

Other than the 64 GF, I have seen no better story for the MFC than Jimma. Thimgs are tough for us right now, but while I respect everyone's right to their opinion, equally, I challenge, everyone on this forum to be a voice of solidarity for this great footy club, before the first bounce this year.

Forum members, let's agree on a venue, and have a pre-season p*ss up to show the Demon solidarity and just how much we love this bloody footy club. Let's show the filth why the MFC beat 'em in so many GF's............... Who's with me here????!!!!!

Not forgetting that, relatively, I am an old man and can only drink half shots of Jack Daniels.

As Jeff Fenech would say, I loves youse all.

Cheers and go Dees.

Im in if anyone else wants to join in let, me know where. ill drink your other half of jd old man lol.... I would be the newest memeber here i believe but dont hold that against me.

Come on fellas this thread has wandered way out of control (and back into it again) so please lets try something a little radical here and actually listen (read) each others opinions, make intelligent comments, and if you disagree, which is perfectly fine for those that don't seem to think so, then debate it in a logical manner.

It won't kill anyone in here to show respect for each other.