I'm a big advocate of trading players that will never be much good but manage to boost their trade value by playing well in the 2nd half of seasons. It's a unpopular opinion and is barraged by calls that "He's come good" and "Why develop him then!" but I think CJ is prime for a trading. Just IMHO. If Sylvia/Rivers had done the same I'd be saying the same.

Yep I can see the logic there

Because CJ has started to play well, we should trade him

Because Sylvia has continued to be useless, we should keep him

Rightio

Got it in one... But only because if we keep him for one more year and he averages 25-30 possessions of a HBF for the whole season, he could command a very tasty pick, perhaps even one of the first 15 that GC17 have their hands on...

And if we got pick 15-25 for him that would be a sensational return. We need players who can deliver the footy. But we need class more. In the end, anyone can get a kick in the back line...

While I don't necessarily disagree with Dan here, I have a question.......

Do we wait for and want players to improve so they play an effective role for us, or so we can parade then around as trade bait?

There seems to be an overwhelming lean towards the latter here, and while I understand it in regards to where we are at the moment, it still is quite ridiculous to compliment a kid one day for doing a pretty good job, and then promptly look to shove him over the edge because of the same thing.

To me a trade is about what we can get, and if a top notch offer which benefits the future of our club comes our way and Johnson has to go because of it then ok, but he has been good this year and, soft or not (cruel call H), he should be complimented for his vastly improved season not punished for it.

In the end, anyone can get a kick in the back line...

What, even Jace Bode?

Because he's soft.

Heh.

Puts me in mind of that article in The Age today where Rob Walls was banging on about the old fashioned and now-retarding attitude of coaches like Malthouse and Matthews - you go in hard or you go home.

As Walls pointed out, footy is a little more complex these days.

But anyway, I'm sure old Han wouldn't be silly enough to attach himself to that kind of one-dimensional attitude...

Would he?

oh wow

the genius strikes again

what would you give up for him Mr.Einstein

I suppose we should ship off Paul Johnson also hey Socrates?

So why were there no takers for him last year when he was put up for trade ? It was widely known he was on the table, but fifteen clubs didn't scramble to get him, although the Saints had a nibble. But in the end they preferred Dempster, etc

But a few good games sate the appetite of the unthinking supporter, such as yourself. Well done.

It's a wonder we're last with so many fine players. This club has kept mediocre footballers for far too long. It's the major reason we're in the position we're currently in.

So who would you let go, Einstein, and what do you think you'd get for them ? Try and find that thinking cap.

Heh.

Puts me in mind of that article in The Age today where Rob Walls was banging on about the old fashioned and now-retarding attitude of coaches like Malthouse and Matthews - you go in hard or you go home.

As Walls pointed out, footy is a little more complex these days.

But anyway, I'm sure old Han wouldn't be silly enough to attach himself to that kind of one-dimensional attitude...

Would he?

There's much that makes a finals team. And sure, there are the Hunt's of Geelong that embarrass themselves to live another day. Thankfully for him he has a deadly left foot. But there are always tried and true non negotiables in footy. Port Adelaide are the only recent premier that didn't have the typical hard mature bodies of all other recent flag winners. But even they had Hardwicke, Pickett, and Francou.

You should try learning what it takes to succeed in september.

And yes, Davey is a worry. I've said for years that he's unlikely to stand up in a big game or final and I'm yet to be proven incorrect.

This club has a very long way to go to build a premiership list and many of the revered darlings on here will be hurt along the way. C'est la vie. It's the price of success. Even footy stupid supporters will learn to live with it. I think.

Yep I can see the logic there

Because CJ has started to play well, we should trade him

Because Sylvia has continued to be useless, we should keep him

Rightio

You've proven in this thread already you don't understand the issue. It's got something to do with present value and potential. Keep reading and you might be able to contribute more then taking people's posts out of context.

So why were there no takers for him last year when he was put up for trade ? It was widely known he was on the table, but fifteen clubs didn't scramble to get him, although the Saints had a nibble. But in the end they preferred Dempster, etc

But a few good games sate the appetite of the unthinking supporter, such as yourself. Well done.

It's a wonder we're last with so many fine players. This club has kept mediocre footballers for far too long. It's the major reason we're in the position we're currently in.

So who would you let go, Einstein, and what do you think you'd get for them ? Try and find that thinking cap.

few good games my pooper

he's only played 8 out of 17 and I reckon he's coming about 8th in our B+F

didn't you read about the 'Red and Blueprint' based on our 22-and-unders? The likes of CJ, PJ, McLean and Jones are obviously the headliners of that particular bill and as such won't be going anywhere

who would i let go? who says we have to let go of anyone, apart from retirees and delisters? Sylvia is about the only one worth anything because he is NOT delivering unlike CJ

you haven't stated what you expect to get for him yet BTW

So why were there no takers for him last year when he was put up for trade ? It was widely known he was on the table, but fifteen clubs didn't scramble to get him, although the Saints had a nibble. But in the end they preferred Dempster, etc

But a few good games sate the appetite of the unthinking supporter, such as yourself. Well done.

It's a wonder we're last with so many fine players. This club has kept mediocre footballers for far too long. It's the major reason we're in the position we're currently in.

So who would you let go, Einstein, and what do you think you'd get for them ? Try and find that thinking cap.

No we are currently in this position because our window has closed and we are playing a large number of inexperienced players who are learning thier own game and where to fit into the side. Some of these young players will make the grade some will not.

1. Some players are showing that they are not yet up to it ie Newton, Bode.

2. Some have been in the system and haven't improved enough ie Sylvia, Bell.

3. Others are showing a bit from early on ie Valenti, Martin, Garland.

4. Others have matured this year, Miller, CJ and PJ.

Trades should come from an area from which we have an oversupply or from group 2.

Trading away your assets as soon as they mature to is counterproductive. It doesnt even need to be explained.

And what type of culture are we creating when we trade you away as soon as you show that you are any good.

Short sighted knee jerk reactions do not build a footy side. Showing faith in the players that display the right attributes on the field and on the track build good footy sides.

And in defense of CJ performing under pressure. A couple of months ago he was in Sandy playing to stay on an AFL list. I suspect that he knew it was his last roll of the dice. It is under this pressure that he has performed his best.

You've proven in this thread already you don't understand the issue. It's got something to do with present value and potential. Keep reading and you might be able to contribute more then taking people's posts out of context.

well mate type all you want and I will read it, but I will never agree that the smart move is to trade a player as soon as he is starting to come good. Paul Johnson fits exactly the same criteria albeit in a different position... why not put him up?

No we are currently in this position because our window has closed and we are playing a large number of inexperienced players who are learning thier own game and where to fit into the side. Some of these young players will make the grade some will not.

1. Some players are showing that they are not yet up to it ie Newton, Bode.

2. Some have been in the system and haven't improved enough ie Sylvia, Bell.

3. Others are showing a bit from early on ie Valenti, Martin, Garland.

4. Others have matured this year, Miller, CJ and PJ.

Trades should come from an area from which we have an oversupply or from group 2.

Trading away your assets as soon as they mature to is counterproductive. It doesnt even need to be explained.

And what type of culture are we creating when we trade you away as soon as you show that you are any good.

Short sighted knee jerk reactions do not build a footy side. Showing faith in the players that display the right attributes on the field and on the track build good footy sides.

And in defense of CJ performing under pressure. A couple of months ago he was in Sandy playing to stay on an AFL list. I suspect that he knew it was his last roll of the dice. It is under this pressure that he has performed his best.

that's a post

Because he's soft.

so is brent harvey, so was craig bradley, so was paul couch........that list goes on

No we are currently in this position because our window has closed and we are playing a large number of inexperienced players who are learning thier own game and where to fit into the side. Some of these young players will make the grade some will not.

1. Some players are showing that they are not yet up to it ie Newton, Bode.

2. Some have been in the system and haven't improved enough ie Sylvia, Bell.

3. Others are showing a bit from early on ie Valenti, Martin, Garland.

4. Others have matured this year, Miller, CJ and PJ.

I don't disagree with too much of that, although I'd argue that we kept Godfrey, Lamb, Nicholson, Smith, Jamar, Ward, Bizzell, Yze, Ferguson, Armstrong ... for too long. Other clubs have shown that you need to keep turning the list over whilst keeping a core of good experienced players and promising youth. Daniher was too wedded to certain favourites and mistakenly thought that we were still a flag chance when in reality the window had already closed. We are paying for that incorrect interpretation now. We kept mediocre depth players longer than we should have, but I understand the rationale of the time.

In the main though, I suspect that we're disagreeing at the edges. There are some players I'd move on, such as CJ, that others are loathe to see go. I also won't be too disappointed if he stays as every club needs a certain amount of depth. But for me he's quite expendable. I also don't rate Dunn or Bell.

I doubt we'd get better than pick 40 for CJ, so in that regard he may be better value still on the list. Pick 40 would do me though. If it came down to CJ or Petterd on a back flank in 09 it's a no brainer. For me anyway.

so is brent harvey, so was craig bradley, so was paul couch........that list goes on

Rubbish

And I've always acknowledged that there are degrees of everything. But as stated > Rubbish

Rubbish

And I've always acknowledged that there are degrees of everything. But as stated > Rubbish

nice argument. now i'm convinced. rubbish............... wtf is that?

nice argument. now i'm convinced. rubbish............... wtf is that?

You presented an argument ? I thought that it was a cheap, throw away and ill informed comment and treated it accordingly.

Did I miss half a post ? Guide me to it.

Rubbish

And I've always acknowledged that there are degrees of everything. But as stated > Rubbish

can you please put I WANT TO TRADE CHRIS JOHNSON FOR PICK 40 in your signature

just so those unfamiliar to the site know what type of person they are dealing with straight away

if you proposed that to Chris Connolly he'd probably slap you

red and blueprint my friend

PS what the HELL does the likes of Ferguson, Godfrey under Daniher have to do with anything? Absolutely NOTHING!

so is brent harvey, so was craig bradley, so was paul couch........that list goes on

Bradley was soft?

And in defense of CJ performing under pressure. A couple of months ago he was in Sandy playing to stay on an AFL list. I suspect that he knew it was his last roll of the dice. It is under this pressure that he has performed his best.

I think Han was talking that hard finals type pressure rather than the "playing for my spot" type. 2 very different situations

I think Han was talking that hard finals type pressure rather than the "playing for my spot" type. 2 very different situations

well on what basis does he make such a claim? Must be all those finals CJ has gone missing in

talk about rubbish

well on what basis does he make such a claim? Must be all those finals CJ has gone missing in

talk about rubbish

Take it easy. I was just explaining the difference in 2 types of pressure.

Paul Johnson fits exactly the same criteria albeit in a different position... why not put him up?

The draft situation this year presents us with no alternative but to attempt to trade for some picks. The next 2-3 years the draft is comprimised. We need to get some good picks. Hence I have advocated trading Green even. Now, in normal years I wouldn't do this but we are not in a normal year. Our list has gaping holes. The HBF is not one of them hence of course CJ is tradeable, it's foolish to think otherwise. But currently he's probably worth more to us than to another side, so our return would be poor. Next year however we'll have a new team in the comp who are going to be looking for such players (21 - 22, 30 odd games) It is then that players such as CJ and yes PJ will have currency. The old adage "for the right price" has never been truer.

Trade CJ and I dont buy a membership!

That is just stupid! Thank god you dont coach the team.

Will be a gun! You will eat your words.

I think Han was talking that hard finals type pressure rather than the "playing for my spot" type. 2 very different situations

Thanks for that but at no time did I say that it was the same. They are different.

However a player can be under no greater pressure than to play for his afl future. Perhaps pressure was just what CJ needed. For a while he has been a young player developing not yet faced with delisting. This year it came to the point that he needed to perform to stay on the list.

You can't make a judgement about how a player will perform under pressure in finals until he has played them. However you may be able to gauge how he might perform on how he has handled pressure and responded in the past.

I am not saying he has made it as a player. He has taken some big steps recently and has been our most consistent recent performer. If he continues this he should be retained. As stated previously by others in this thread we have a current shortage of players who can consistently hit targets (another indicator of ability to handle pressure).

And PJ. He is my first picked in the team each week. Has a real crack each week and is pretty good for a big guy.

He replaces Doggie Brown. Someone who can inspire the team and show a bit of passion in his performances.

PJ and CJ aint going anywhere. Two players who can hold their spot in the 22.