You are a dead-set giggle aren't you. Who knew you were so funny. You've managed to figure out a way that your argument is actually different but you still get to have a go at me. And it has taken you a week to do it. You have also managed to change your signature, approach me about it and then defend it all without me saying a word. A delicate little creature! I'll correct you because while i do not give two hoots about you (I care less about you than you do about me - I guess you feel spurned) I do mind that you are deliberately misrepresenting me.

You argue that that because Cameron could not replace neize he is a failure. You then argue that Neitz is a very good player and therfore hard to replace.

I argue that CAC has tried to address the KF and KB issue - Zomer and Newton are two examples of players recruited to replace neitz. The difference here is that i recognize (a) the likelhood of success and (B) the size of the replacement. Neita hold records at the club that are the best in 150 years. Replacing that is near impossible. CAC has struggled to get a Key forward or back in a traditional sense, but has recruited players more suited to the high-run utility/KPP role. You ignore this entirely, claiming that ONLY traditional KPP's count. The fact that ther are barely a handful left in the game, that theya re highly unrealible to draft unless FS or in top 10 and we have had bugger all top 10 picks eludes you - you in fact 'deny' the existence of any of this. You then state that I state that Newton or Zomer will be just like neitz - which is a nice piece of deception. I argued originally that they would not be - they are drafting to replace his role IF they can develop - not replace our best skipper! You then reform that argument and use it against a throwaway quote. This is deceptive behaviour - low, manipulative attempts to create an argument I do not endorse and then dispute it.

Do the right thing and bugger off.

Back on topic.

There is a great example of how deceptively fast Matthew Bate is can be seen during the Sean Wellman interview on the clubs website.

As Dunn is flying out of the backline to take that shot on goal Bate is loping beside him...looks like he is jogging but is actually covering ground very quickly.

http://bigpondvideo.com/index.php?melbourneTV/61874

You are a dead-set giggle aren't you.....blah blah blah

Care to stick to the topic? No one cares about your pathetic internet vandetta that you've got going against me, just give it a rest so people can discuss and debate the topic

*shakes head*

Back to Bate, nightmare, Bate is fast, in a straight line, I'm not convinced he can turn quickly though. I can't view it at work for some reason, does the video show just straight line speed or does it show him weaving in and out?

Care to stick to the topic? No one cares about your pathetic internet vandetta that you've got going against me, just give it a rest so people can discuss and debate the topic

*shakes head*

Back to Bate, nightmare, Bate is fast, in a straight line, I'm not convinced he can turn quickly though. I can't view it at work for some reason, does the video show just straight line speed or does it show him weaving in and out?

Admittedly he is running in a straight line.

good post in general but i question this part. they are more valuable up the field? they kick less goals up there and atm the one thing we really need is goal kickers isnt it?

True, I believe both are best as half forwards though and both have shown they are capable of kicking 2-3 games each from that position, would they even kick any more from FF with our current forward supply?

Miller's always played his best football at CHF, surely after all the years of expermintation we can put that one to rest.

Bate's strengths dictate he is better playing up the ground than as a full forward, his athleticism, his booming kick from outside 50, plus the fact that his over head and contested marking ability is questionable which is non-negotiable to be a dominant full forward.

Between the two of them our half forward line could grow into a real force in years to come. Moving one of them to full forward would simply be robbing Peter to pay Paul. We would end up with a one pronged half forward line and a full forward playing outside his natural position.

We need to look elsewhere for a full forward. Its thin pickings I know but I dont like the idea of using players who have established themselves in positions to plug holes, you need to build around what's already there and thankfully we are in a position were we have time to do that.

True, I believe both are best as half forwards though and both have shown they are capable of kicking 2-3 games each from that position, would they even kick any more from FF with our current forward supply?

Miller's always played his best football at CHF, surely after all the years of expermintation we can put that one to rest.

Bate's strengths dictate he is better playing up the ground than as a full forward, his athleticism, his booming kick from outside 50, plus the fact that his over head and contested marking ability is questionable which is non-negotiable to be a dominant full forward.

Between the two of them our half forward line could grow into a real force in years to come. Moving one of them to full forward would simply be robbing Peter to pay Paul. We would end up with a one pronged half forward line and a full forward playing outside his natural position.

We need to look elsewhere for a full forward. Its thin pickings I know but I dont like the idea of using players who have established themselves in positions to plug holes, you need to build around what's already there and thankfully we are in a position were we have time to do that.

i feel that miller has played good games at CHF, but rarely kicked more than 1 when he played in that position. I havnt got stats to back it up, but the games where he has kicked 3 goals have been when we have no full forward and he has found himself leading out from FF for whatever reason. It may be because bate marked it across CHF allowing miller to get back, but miller kicks more goals when allowed to drop into the FF position (if not role).

RE Bate I think he is a natural runner with height. I think he will be suited to anywhere - midfield, HFF or even closer to goal. I dont think he will spend long periods of time at FF but i do think he could become a pavlich type player. he kicked four on the weekend, but how many did he kick from CHF? he kicked a couple when leading out from FF also.

One thing I have observed is that no matter who is in our forward line atm, if the ball is lobbed up to a pack, or even to a 1 on 1 contest, i never have any faith that we will take a mark. we need a player who can take contested grabs when at a standstill-not on a lead. if bate can develop that, i would be very tempted to use him at FF more often, even if that deprives us of some of his other strengths.

i feel that miller has played good games at CHF, but rarely kicked more than 1 when he played in that position. I havnt got stats to back it up, but the games where he has kicked 3 goals have been when we have no full forward and he has found himself leading out from FF for whatever reason. It may be because bate marked it across CHF allowing miller to get back, but miller kicks more goals when allowed to drop into the FF position (if not role).

RE Bate I think he is a natural runner with height. I think he will be suited to anywhere - midfield, HFF or even closer to goal. I dont think he will spend long periods of time at FF but i do think he could become a pavlich type player. he kicked four on the weekend, but how many did he kick from CHF? he kicked a couple when leading out from FF also.

One thing I have observed is that no matter who is in our forward line atm, if the ball is lobbed up to a pack, or even to a 1 on 1 contest, i never have any faith that we will take a mark. we need a player who can take contested grabs when at a standstill-not on a lead. if bate can develop that, i would be very tempted to use him at FF more often, even if that deprives us of some of his other strengths.

Miller and Bate... both simultaneously leading strongly down the ground into space could/should become a powerful combination giving a constant double option to midfield and back line players. At the moment, Bailey seems to "rest" them at FF from the constant running between HF & HB. Once our back half & midfield become more dominent and consistent probably Miller and Bate will both work from deeper in the forward zone and not have to run to HB as much. If you can imagine PJ or Juice has a major tall target with Miller & Bate working out a bit further either marking around 50 or delivering inside 50 with Davey, Sylvia and Wona lurking, crumbing.........

I like Bate as a floating forward with his booming left foot,not sure he'd handle the no. 1 forward target.

Needs to harden the f#$k up.

Needs to harden the f#$k up.

I think you underate his hardness.