Macca

Not happy with Roos? Is he telling porkies old dee? Why would he do that?

If was taken at pick 50 many here would be wanting him to get more game time (based on his promise) ... again, it's the 4 pick that gets into many people's heads so as a consequence, they often can't have an unbiased opinion. I'd rather listen to the opinion of this bloke all the same ... by the way, did anyone see Roos' appraisal of our under 18 competition on AFL 360 last night? He basically called for a lift in the draft age and for a re-structure of the next tier (also talked about the huge gap between under 18 footy and AFL) 'Jimmy's really knuckled down': Roos backs Toumpas Just because we haven't been rewarded for our patience in the past doesn't mean we should abandon the concept. The alternative is an 'instant gratification' type of thinking which is just plain stupid.

My honest opinion on Toumpas is that he may not become an A grade player but they were never my expectations. He could, however, become a good or very good player for us but he needs that opportunity Many others on our list have been afforded that opportunity and many have come up short ... some are looking like they are turning their respective career's around (finally)

I understand what you're saying but you and others are missing my point I'm looking for a consistent argument, not a selective one. By the way, reading between the lines on that Roos mini presser, I can possibly see an unchanged line-up.

You're just lashing out

Of course I watched the game Fact: A 27 minute game by a sub who gets the ball 6 times is normally judged a certain way For various reasons Toumpas' game is judged differently

By my reckoning if Toumpas had have gone at pick 50 the draft believers may well want to give him more game time. Such is the nature of judging a player on his draft pick number. It's just nonsense

If we'd copped a hiding on Saturday then Toumpas' 27 minute, 6 possession game would have been seen in a different light. Those wanting to banish him to Casey for 10 games are over reacting Ignore the draft pick number and judge him fairly

Did Roos talk about a possible 26 a few weeks ago? If so, your 22 + 2 + 2 might be on the money. Back-up ruckmen are back-up ruckmen and then there's Pedersen for some versatility (if he can recapture some of his form from last year) Then there's injuries of course. It will be fascinating to see all these blokes on the periphery running around for Casey - I'd like to think they'll all respond to the challenge and endeavour to put their hands up. Many of them played in at least one of our last 3 games last year. Skill level is key of course - improvement has to happen and for some, a lot of improvement is needed.

Or, if those "not best 22" can lift their respective game's, our side may not ever have too many obvious weaknesses. Any player can improve but that improvement is difficult for those with poor decision making skills coupled with poor to average disposal skills (especially for a player who has been in the system for 4-8 years) With the odd exception, it's noticeable that those who have reasonable to excellent disposal skills (and decision making skills) are separating themselves from the rest. I've already seen enough to believe we can win up to 8-10 games this season but we'll need a half decent run with injuries to get to that initial goal ... if we have a dream run we might even snag a few more wins.

Well C&B, as you're no doubt aware, it's rare for a club to use less than 30 players in a season and that number can often get to 33/34 (especially for the less successful sides) I'm not wanting injuries or poor form to happen but both those factors will almost certainly happen. I'm not trying to be obviously negative either - unless I'm mistaken, at some stage during the season we're possibly going to have 3 or 4 players in the selected team who we ordinarily may not want in the side. What I'm hoping for is for 3-4 of our depth players to improve their footy quite markedly. That can happen too - especially if they need to do that to prolong their respective career's. Dunn, Jetta, Jamar & Howe have all improved quite a lot under Roos and it looks like Watts, Viney, Kent, Garland & McDonald are following suit this season (although it is a bit early to tell just yet)

Not sure about 'hatred' Gonzo but I can see your point. The Australian cricket team nearly always has a scapegoat/whipping boy. At various times in the last few years it's been Johnson, Clarke, Haddin, Hughes, Warner and now it's Watto's turn (he was even booed when he came onto bowl in the WC final) Back to footy - the high draft pick number is a huge factor too. People mistakenly believe that a top end draft pick is 'supposed' to be a good player when that is just another myth. Because of those subsequent expectations, young draftees are judged too early and often unfairly. We've got a stack of players who have been in the system for 4+ years who haven't really done a great deal - the high scrutiny is not spread in a fair and balanced way .

As I said previously, I'm not unhappy about Frawley leaving regardless of how well he might play elsewhere. If a player doesn't want to play for our club, do the best deal possible. And one of Roos' great strengths is trading and dealing - he's quite good at that (as we're finding out)

He didn't give us years of very good footy at all - that is a myth. A reasonable footballer, yeah. In his last 3 years, he was, at best, quite a good 'stopper'. He regressed from his all-Australian year and failed to show the required leadership that we needed. His last 3 B&F finishes were 9th, 7th & 8th (in arguably, one of the worst performed teams of all time) And the match committee are more prone to recognise backman too - far more so in my eyes. Granted, he had plenty of mates (nearly the whole list) That doesn't mean he won't get back to his dashing best at Hawthorn (his dashing best was his all-Australian year) Too many make excuses for Frawley yet won't make the same excuses for other players (he was "under siege" in the backline and all that - defending doesn't just happen in the last line of defence, it happens all over the ground) All our players could have been dubbed "under siege" - from 2012-2014). .

Frawley on Clark is gonna look a little weird (if it happens) Both of them leaving doesn't particularly bother me - can't say I wish either of them well though.

The WADA annual budget figure of 15-20 million is a concern. That's shoestring in the whole scheme of things. Not sure what can be done either - the private sector wouldn't be helping out in a hurry. The IOC money would be limited too you'd imagine so in the end, WADA are relying on Governments around the world for it's funding. So what would ASADA's funding be? I'm assuming a lot less.- pursuing individuals would be a lot less costly than pursuing a whole organisation (Essendon) And it could be argued that ASADA/WADA are in reality, taking on the AFL. Essendon received penalties and sanctions for governance issues - those governance issues didn't include having clear possession of PED's did it? Shouldn't they receive extra sanctions from the AFL for being in possession of PED's? (if that can be proven) Of course, we shouldn't be holding our breath on the AFL taking any further action against Essendon. As an aside, I heard somewhere that ASADA have handed out 132 show cause notices to Australian athletes in the last 2 years. So if anyone doesn't think we've got a PED problem in this Country, they need to read up on the issue (the problem is, our media aren't the best at informing the public of the true situation) We need a lot more Roy Masters types.

Yes D2014, it's good to see Gawn and Spencer do well for Casey but Frost looks like he could be our 2nd ruck for the time being at least. Vince is a good player and McKenzie is a goer like Grimes, Riley, Terlich & M Jones (skill is the issue though with many/most) Not sure we want too many more kids in the senior side but 1 or 2 of them might force their way into the side at some stage. Also, Michie, Bail & Pedersen can all come in for specific purposes but again, there's also some deficiencies there with those players (unfortunately) For the most part, our depth players aren't the frail types or draftees so I can see a number of those depth players coming into the side and playing a role when needed (and they will be needed - often up to 30-34 players can be used in a season) For this year at least, us supporters are going to have to wear the fact that not all 22 players picked are going to be good players or better than average players. For the most part, we might have 2 to 4 players in the side who possibly aren't ideal selections. We just don't possess a good enough list yet That's why I haven't been as hard on Toumpas as a few others here - the alternatives (apart from Vince & Dawes) are no great shakes (or they are 1st year draftees) However, that doesn't mean we can't put in a number of performances like we did yesterday - on the contrary, if Roos can find roles for those 3 or 4 players (if and when they come in) we may not be exposed as we have been in the past. He's obviously a top line coach so I expect him to find a way.

If it's classic rock that you're looking for then this online station out of New York is quite good ... Q104.3 (New York) I believe they do an 'all things Beatles' hour on Sundays from 10pm (our time) ... that includes each individual as solo artists (or such like) .

Nothing we can do about Petracca not being able to play for us this year but if we want to turn a negative into a positive, he'll be like a bonus new player for us next season ... and if our luck turns with regards to out top end draft picks, he'll be a good player as well. Fingers crossed for Trengove also and, there's a very good chance we will have another fruitful off-season (if the last 2 off-seasons are any indication) The future looks quite bright all of a sudden. .

Fair enough I don't agree so let's agree to disagree (there's no point in repeating what I've already said)

A few observations (which may or may not have been mentioned) Jamar played an important role and without him, we could have really been towelled up. Viney was the real positive to come out of the game and that wasn't predicted either. We were hard at the contest and our backing up and 2nd & 3rd efforts were first rate. The corridor was our friend - who would have thought? We answered every challenge to great effect (the margin should have been larger though) All our players seemed to know their role and we displayed great teamwork. We put them off their game and they didn't seem to know how to respond. Others have made mention of Kent's negating role on Malceski - that's a decent scalp. We were far more direct and we played on a lot - without hesitation The only bit that concerns me is this looks to be very close to our best team (save for Dawes & Vince) We could do with a bit of luck with injuries and we might need that luck if we're to make our mark on the season. Another plus of sorts are those players looking on who didn't play - they'll now know the required level of intensity and application required (and the skill level) We do have a fair bit of relative experience in the 2's and we need 3 or 4 of those players to improve their output markedly. The match committee need to see some dominant performances at Casey (both by the team and by individuals - on a consistent basis) That may not happen but we need it to happen. A terrific win.

I've never seen a sub's game be critiqued so much (especially a player who has only had 27 minutes of game time) I look forward to seeing the same people critiquing the sub in the same way on a consistent basis (won't happen)

Stumbled across this radio station - decent too Jazz24.org (jazz 24/7)

Ha! Excellent version. Don't worry, you'll know what I'm talking about soon enough - you've been warned, Col The highlight of his last visit was his 4 page tete-a-tete with another ex poster (who may or may not also make a return)

Interesting that Brad Johnson had Howe as our best player and I suppose that makes him by default, the best player on the ground (in Brad's eyes) Howe hasn't attracted a lot of votes here. I was also astonished to discover that Lumumba only had 12 possessions (only 6 more than the 27 minute player - Toumpas ) I had to have Lumumba in my best as I thought he was quite influential despite his low possession count. 6 - T-Mac 5 - Jones 4 - Watts 3 - Viney 2 - Howe 1 - Lumumba Apologies to at least another 8 players (especially Garlett, Garland & Tyson) Usually it's been difficult to find 6 players - I prefer this version of difficult.