Macca

If we're not aggressive with regards to trading out a decent player or 2 (commodity) then 7 - 9 changes is my guess. If we do trade aggressively then the number of changes to the list might exceed 10. A lot will depend on how the club sees itself. As always, we are mere onlookers. Whatever we call all that doesn't really matter ... if we were a complete basket-case then a 'total rebuild' might be an apt phrase.

I agree but so often we see sides completely fall away from a 4 & 11 position. We need to do the opposite. It is all above the shoulders in the next 7 games ... we've got enough good players available to win games.

Sorry for editing your post in this way BM but this part of your post stood out to me. Even mug sportspeople can battle it out when it doesn't matter but the greats use it as practice. They never quit. Most others give up ... it's a mindset often confined to the elite but there is no reason why an average player can't have a never-say-die attitude. And that's what we lack (apart from a number of other weaknesses)

Wins do matter ... both to the playing group, coaches, admin & the board. And importantly, the supporters & members. Just imagine how we'd all view it if we finished at 4 & 18. Sponsors, prime-time games, membership, destination club, Goodwin and numerous other factors would be at stake I understand that you want to win as many games as possible t_u as I've read your posts on the subject so I'm not directing the above comments at you And given our history ... when we go down we stay down. For years. So make no mistake, we need to finish the season well but if we play like we did against the Lions, we'll be lucky to win another game. So it is all to play for as far as I'm concerned. Those eyeing off a top-end draft pick need to realise that there are many other factors at play. More important factors in my opinion.

But would you agree that we'll make 10 or so changes to the list? List the last 10-12 players on the list (in terms of value) and ask yourself whether you'd miss any of them if they were gone. I also reckon the club might trade out a valuable commodity or 2. Might. Sometimes you have to make changes and difficult decisions to get better. So if that happens the changes could be dubbed a rebuild of sorts. We need pace and an injection of skilled players - it is a glaring weakness. We quite obviously don't need a total rebuild like we did from '07 through to '15 but we're a long way off being a premiership contender. If it was me I wouldn't trade Petracca, Brayshaw or the like but it wouldn't surprise me greatly if tough decisions are made.

No ... you see it your way and I see it my way. I watch the game closely and there are numerous occasions where a player breaks team rules ... runs to the wrong spots, fails to lay a tackle, doesn't run back, jogging instead of sprinting, doesn't shepherd, unecessarily berating a teammate, not playing in front, going up for a spoil instead of staying down (although in the heat of the moment an 'error' of judgement can occur with regards to a spoil) etc etc etc As for the errors ... missed marks, poor decision making, errant kicks, poor conversion rates etc etc So I know the difference ... it seems that you don't. And I'm hoping that the news surrounding May in the future is all positive. Whether that happens or not is anyone's guess. So far we've seen him called out by the coach for rolling up in an unfit fashion to pre-season, get suspended, get called out by the leadership group for drinking whilst in rehab and now this. He's on big money and we gave up a top-end draft pick for him so a lot is expected. So far, I'm underwhelmed with his output. And if you're happy with all that, fine.

And I don't have an agenda with May either although I do believe he has now brought unnecessary attention onto himself. Both Leigh Matthews & Jono Brown mentioned that the berating went on for far too long so it's not just a few supporters here. I actually stuck up for May against many here over that whole 'drinking session' story. I thought he was being unfairly treated in that instance (more so the perception) although the leadership group did call him out over the incident. Still don't believe it was a 'session' though. Just a couple of beers is what I gleaned from it all. Harmless.

I just don't like seeing players being berated by their teammates. It's counter-productive in my opinion. If you don't have a problem with what May did that's fine. With these sorts of debates on these sorts of issues many have a strong, firm view (either way)

No I just want him to behave himself. There's a difference.

How about you give it a rest ... you take repeating yourself to new heights. And hypocrisy and misery. Even when we win you can often only find fault.

Group-think does happen but the mob is often right whilst many minority views are wrong. And vice-versa. As for Frost ... the undue criticism has died down but the residual effect lingers. In my opinion. Now you may disagree with my opinion but I say 'Vive la Difference'

We couldn't be further apart on this issue. Let's agree to disagree.

Every player breaks team rules, same as they all make errors. May himself broke a team rule by berating a player rhe way he did. Frost went up to spoil when he had other options yeah? How many times do we see that happen? Constantly I'd say Short passing in the backline traditionally was against team rules and that's what May did in the first half. Causing a direct turnover By the way, that is the 6th time I have made mention of that horrible May clanger yet no one else here wants to talk about it. I know what I saw and May was out of line. Are you happy for him to do it again next Sunday (in the same way for a prolonged period) Genuine question and I'd appreciate an answer. You quoted me so now it's my turn. I'll ask you again and again if I have to.

I have always found any kind of abuse towards umpires to be utterly pointless. I have never done it and never will. In fact, I have never disputed even 1 umpiring decision in my entire life My motto is to accept the umpires decision and move on. And that will never change. That attitude served me well in my playing days so I don't see why I should think differently as a spectator. Others can do as they please. If they want to go to the footy and scream at the umpires all day, that's fine with me. It is just not my cup of tea.

... will mean this place will go into absolute meltdown. Hoping for a win and if we come to play we can quite obviously win but I'm not sure we've played consistently well in one game this year. So play well and up to expectations and we'll win. Wouldn't put my hard-earned on it though.

Excellent point ... and that won't be the end of it either as I'm reckoning that we'll make some more moves with the coaching structure at seasons end (with Goodwin staying of course) And we'll probably move up to 10 players on and maybe 1 or 2 more than that if we trade aggressively in the off-season. As for the current skills that we witness ... a massive improvement is needed. Also, we weren't switched on for the first 6 games this season so that's another issue. And the gameplan looks outdated. So a lot has to happen if we're to climb the ladder again. The OP made a number of good points but our reality reveals other problems that can't be ignored. I'm neither confident nor despondent about our chances next season. But there is a lot of work ahead if we're to win more games than we lose.

Yes ... happy to agree to disagree. Building a great culture is possibly harder than building a great list. It's a long slow process. Respect is the big key ... mutual respect. All done out of view of the public. Airing dirty laundry is counter-productive. Neeld came flying in weilding a big stick and talking tough. Massive fail eventuated. So it's tricky. May can play but he still has a lot to prove ... and if he can become a difference-maker on and off the field I'll be the first to acknowledge that. Still got to do it.

Are you serious? Frost cops it no end. Much like Oscar. He's not a great player but so what! We don't have an endless supply of ready made replacements so errors are going to occur from the lesser-lights So a better player and a more senior player in May kicking the ball directly to an opposition player should attract more criticism. But it didn't so there's your answer. Group-think at work again. And I acknowledge that May can play but that isn't what this discussion is about. May overstepped the mark and needs to adhere to team rules like any other player.

If he pulls his head in all will be fine. I used his own errors as an example of how counter-productive berating a teammate can be. If it was Jones instead of Frost do you think the same pro-May argument exists in the same form? I don't.

I don't think so nifty ... 'group-think' rules on the internet. So most who have a minority view are not often apt to speak up. You reckon this thread is a good sample size? I don't. i see it as a chance for most to just vent away. Pound of flesh just happens to be the current whipping boy - Frost

So true ... but without robust debate, it would be a dull old place

Player-speak May was out of line and needs to pull his own head in End of story

So May berates Frost for 'apparently' breaking team rules (an errant spoil that went in the wrong direction) but one could mount an argument that May broke an even bigger team rule. And in the process quite possibly motivated the opposition "Have a look at this rabble, arguing amongst themselves. Let's run all over them fellas" You never give a sucker an even break.

And there you go again with the scapegoating It is now the fault of Jones & Viney. Weeks ago ir was Goidwin and prior to that it was all Cameron Schwab's fault. The reasons why we're 4 & 10 are many. It isn't one thing and never would be one thing And if you had more experience in these matters you'd know that.

No I am not having an off day at all You're scapegoating Frost for starters. What about all the numerous errors made by all the other players Did you see May's almighty clanger for instance? How about you call May out on that one. May's outburst is probably a symptom of a much greater problem (player or club or both) But you can't see that because you are too interested in your pound of flesh. Put on your cool head and you'll see it my way.