nutbean

Just been looking back through drafts - anyone who doesn't think that it is a turkey shoot..well...look at 2009... We keep bemoaning not taking Dustin Martin - have a look at that draft and see how many mistakes were made. Poster say we could have taken Fyffe - but that was Freo's second pick not their first so they didnt even rate that him as highly as Moribito. We could have had Lewis Jetta but that was the Swans second pick - they preferred Rohan over him. Essendon took Melksham before Carlisle. Geelongs third pick was Christensen at 40 - the best for Geelong from that draft.

Need to pick you up on one point - - Most pundits had Watts and Niknat around the same pundits - most pundits did NOT have Toumpas and Wines around the same pick. Toumpas was clearly the preferred pick and expected to go top 3. Even Jack Viney had him as the preferred pick but commented that he didn't think he would get to our pick. I don't think it proves that pundits don't know - I think it proves that it is a lottery - in fact GWS , Bulldogs and us all got it wrong as he is clearly the standout ( at this stage) of that draft.

Nonsense - obviously you weren't gifted a crystal ball and rear vision mirror like many on here.

Your dodgy memory is the same as my dodgy memory but I didn't post because I couldn't find the reference. My dodgy memory recalls Viney Jr rating Toumpas as the number pick and suggesting he wouldn't be around at our pick.

Most of the highlight packages are pretty meh. Two of the better packages I have seen is Fitzpatrick and Troy Davis - what does that tell you ?

For accuracy sake - Roos said he would not have done a straight pick 2 for Tyson - he wanted to get a pick back in the top 10 which was he got. (Tyson, 9 and 52 for 2,20,72)

Roos is on record Saying he wanted that trade precisely because it was two for one deal. He also said that Kelly would be a really good footballer. He called it a win win.

Dermie spoke about the great Hawk teams and he said the biggest single factor in the continual development of their youth was the unbelievably good mature aged players and leaders at the club. When Brereton debut ( in the finals of 1982 - couldnt make the team the whole year) - he was the third tall in the forward line. The early parts of his career were shielded. We expect Hogan to come in and be a gun from day one. Look at Gunston at the Hawks - had two years of the pressure being on Franklin and Roughy.

The jury is out on everything. What Steve said is correct except I have guarded optimism - we have changed plenty but I wish ( hope) it is that simple to turn around. I can see that Roos has improved the team but by his own admission we are still a long way off. Lots of the other building blocks are in place but I think have a real solid core of mature footballers to ease the way recruits is so important and we have better than last year but still dont have enough good matures to take the pressure off the kids. I am not as confident as some that we have the right environment for kids to prosper YET. Call it a work in progress. I have confidence that we are on the path. Incompetence doesn't get corrected and overhauled from one year to the next so I will hold fire about all the guns that may come into this club until one actually proves himself to be one.

Thanks for pointing out me being ignorant and infuriating but obviously you don't read my posts on recruits because I actually agree with you 100%. Well 90%. All you say is true but I have been so badly burned by our past incompetence that I will declare a future draft pick a gun when one actually turns out to be one.

morton, scully, trengove, watts petracca will be a gun - I'm certain of it.

Or they could be Luke Tapscott

All our players look composed during training...alas.. when they play a game proper.......

lordy lordy - when we all learn. Cook was All Australian centre half forward !!!!!

sigh........ Again...... Toumpas was the more highly regarded player at the time of the draft. You can all rewrite history as much as you like but go through every article by TAC watchers and Toumpas was more highly ranked than Wines. That much is fact. The next probability is that Wines is now arguably the best player out of that draft so following the flawed rear vision logic - we should not have been able to draft him because GWS had picks before us and they should have taken him first ! (if you go back through posts at the time - there was even talk of "collusion" that we gave up too much for Hogan but the trade off was that Toumpas would somehow slip through to our pick)

Same was said about Tom Scully if i recall... Same was said about Jack Watts and/or NicNat if I recall. They all look like guns and jets at TAC level. Here's a riddle - how do you turn a jet into a spud - put him in a Melbourne jumper. ( sorry - still in the grieving process after Sunday - I asked an MCC attendant for my membership money back)

Even then I would prefer a mid. Tall forwards are guesswork as to when you will see the best from them. Cameron came on pretty quick but Lynch, Dixon, Day have been slower cream to rise to the top. Ruckman as you rightly pointed out are the same. With few exceptions, you don't see the best of them until they around 24 plus.

great post - but I note with interest that you are only an annual member not a life member. I question your loyalty that you have only signed up for one year. Before I realised that you had only signed for one year I thought your posts were valuable and insightful but now I believe they have little merit and will be no great loss if you decide not to sign up again. I have heard a rumour that you are hanging out hoping to be picked up by a more successful fan forum like "The Punt Road End". The good news is that if P-Man does go we can get a very high compensation poster pick and cherry pick posters from Saintsational fan forum. (good job P-man)

He was good on Saturday night. You may be right. I may be suffering from the "Clint Batram's". Probably didn't make that many errors but when he did they were real stinkers. Goes back to my point - the times he turns it over is when he has too much to decide what to do. Makes it look worse.

and i think people need to look at the game in conjunction with stats. I think Tommy Mac is a beauty but the part of his game that needs attention is his disposal and decision making. He is actually better when is he is instinctive and has little time to think about his disposal. The more time he has the more he worries me. Grimes flaw in his game is the same and needs to improve - I don't need a figure of 71% to tell me that.

He had a very special on field relationship with Garry Lyon ( especially standing on his head to take that hanger)

I resemble that remark !

Essentially - be Hawthorn and don't turn the freakin pill over at all !!

hence my last line - and the definite need for us not to cough the ball up. I just found it interesting that I think we still have the problem almost as bad as last year of turning the ball over but it has been masked to an extent because we have been good at recovering from our mistakes and not getting carved up because of it. The JKH dropped mark against Collingwood and the Bail almost flicking it back in when it was across the boundary line last week reminded me of last year where we turned it over through error and were made to pay big time.

Interestingly though - we have butchered the ball and turned it over - but even though some have occurred in the backline - very few have hurt us. Besides the Eagles game and to a lesser extent the North game I would suggest that our turnovers have stopped us winning games more than contributing to the opposition beating us if that makes sense. Our defensive efforts have been really good in that once we lose the ball we close the play down and either force a ball up or win it back. It was mentioned about Hawthorn by a few commentators that if they lose a clearance in the centre they dont care because they back themselves in to get it back off you through their defensive measures. This has happened a lot with our turnovers - I dont think we have necessarily turned it over much less than last year - I think we have been defensively good that we dont let it hurt us - hence the much improved "points against" part of our percentage. In the end turnovers still mean we lose games and the fewer of them, the bigger positive impact it will have on the scoreboard.