binman

Thanks for keeping DL in the loop RB - you're spot on most dees fans (and no doubt most footy fans) are right behind Liam. If he does end up playing next year it would give the whole club a buzz. If not, whilst it would be sad, in his handful of games he gave us some wonderful memories.

Yep good point - one that makes my claim of us having the upper hand look very silly! If we can't come to terms and de-list him he would nominate for the PSD if (and only if) it was GWS he wanted to go to (or at a stretch GC, but even them GC would have to deal with GWS to ensure they didn't pick him up - or he could put a price on his head only GWS would be prepared to match). In which case we probably would do some sketchy deal. Sheeds would love that. But would he really want to go to GWS? Any way good point

Yep, no way. Also as i said earlier in this thread if we force him into the draft to get to a club who wanted him they would have to use one of their early draft picks to get him (assuming another club didn't get him). For argument's sake lets say GWS want him. Will they prepared to use the number pick in the draft? No, of course not. I'm not sure where their next one is (have they got an early pick as part of a under 17 trade?, if not they might get one) but again i doubt they'd want to use a first round pick on Blease. I'm not sure any club would and even if they did it would be a risk for Sammy to take (ie that he would slip through to a club that he wanted to go to, ie the club with the immediate preceding pick, say number 15, might like him). We have the upper hand here.

One thing i that frustrates me is the idea that Neeld has 'lost"some players. I'm sorry but this is a nonsense and reeks of one of the key problems the club has for a long time - ie so called senior players having too much influence and basically running the show; the classic tail wagging the dog scenario. Neeld has come in with a clear mandate from the board to address this and other culture related issues. Now you could argue that his approach of going hard is not the right one and that more a less abrasive, "man management" (ie an approach more like the one Wallace used at Richmond to change culture) approach might be better. Myself i'm not sure - i do think he went a bit hard early but i think he has become more inclusive and dare i say it supportive in the last few months. This is particulalry true when it comes to the younger player, who Neeld seems to pump up alot (see his quotes on Blease, Strauss, the Jacks et al - Robbos interviews with are quite reveling on this) However it could easily be argued that our culture has been so so poor that nothing but a slash and burn approach would be effective. So he has 'lost' some senior player by being direct, daring to drop them (from the team and leadership group). So what? To be honest these so called senior player are part of the problem and i reckon Neeld demands the buy in green talked about or if not he's more than happy to see them go and build his team from the ground up. Root and branch. Not a re-build; a new build.

Good point, neither GWS or GC would use their first round on him. Would any club? Is he worth a first round pick in this years draft? Perhaps but only just you'd have to think. This would perhaps imply that a club that is keen on him would want to trade with the dees to avoid him being forced to go into the draft. If we refuse to trade we have the upper hand i assume. As i said i reckon nwe would play hard ball with him and if he wants out force him to go into the draft.

It could only be GWS or GC who would have a real chance of getting him as unless a club higher up the ladder made an offer we couldn't refuse (which is unlikely as unless a club specifically needed a small quick player who is yet to prove himself at AFL level they're not going to offer up much) then i have no doubt at all we'll play hard ball and force him to the draft (even if that means we get jack) and into the arms of GWS. Does he really want to go there?

Beamer, you know you are a dreamer Well can you put your hands in your head, oh no I said, "Beamer, you're nothing but a beamer" Well can you put your hands in your head, oh no I said "Far out, what a day, a year, a laugh it is" You know, well you know you had it comin' to you Now there's not a lot I can do Beamer, you stupid little Beamer So now you put your head in your hands, oh no I said "Far out, what a day, a year, a laugh it is" You know, well you know you had it comin' to you Now there's not a lot I can do Work it out someday

No. Both will be great players but Watts will be better.

I also thought it wasn't a bad game from us. In the first we were up in contested possessions and inside 50's. Our lack of option in outr forward line was the killer - and so frustrating to watch. Very difficult for a team that keeps throwing the ball into their forward half only to watch it rebound time and time again not to begin to struggle. The Saints third quarter was predictable in that sense. That's one of the biggest problems of having no forward line to speak off - the rebound so often becomes a scoring threat and puts huge pressure on the back line. But our field kicking was ok and is getting better. A couple of howlers but less that earlier in the year. Jetta showed with that one act of bravery why Neeld rates him. I bet that vision will be on high rotation in the review. Our back half held up well until that third quarter. We showed terrific application not to get blown away. The other thing i really liked was that through out the game, as some have noted, we were taking some risks with ball movement and doing quite a lot of switching. Quite aggressive really. To me this is a glimpse of what we can expect next year and shows that Neeld is slowly revealing his plan. He has been adamant all along that before adding flair the defensive aspect needs to become second nature. In his robbo interviews over last 5-6 weeks he has noted he has been pretty happy with our pressure and contested possession; so i think we are getting there. Even if Saints dropped off in intensity we still managed to kick 8 goals in that last quarter, which by any measure is impressive - particularly with a forward line missing most of its key players. It shows that we are not simply developing a defensive mind set. This subltle change is something the Neeld knockers should take note of before they start banging on about no development and a boring limited game plan.

The silver lining actually is lead from which you get poisoned

Classic. I only get the occasional flash of TP's brilliance (as he/she is my sole block) but like watching a slow motion car crash i sometimes can't help reading bits that are quoted. If these quotes were put together in the fashion of one those mid seventies 'best of (insert year, band or genre)' cheapo records (think K-Tel) with lurid cover art, the title would "Best of the Trolls" By the way if you were to want to look up the phrase 'don't throw the baby out with the bath water' where would you look? Bartlett's book of quotes perhaps?. I wonder if he has a quote on trolls?

This makes no sense to me. What makes you say he clearly hasn't coached 'the cattle' he has.

In news just in. Thaipantsman doesn't think Neeld is much chop and unless he improves on 6 wins will be axed at or near the end of 2013. In his opinion Neeld will 'harbour the same "done" feeling towards the end of next year"that Primus just has In more news on that subject Binman advises internet fan site Demonland that he is prepared to bet Neeld will be coaching at the dees in 2014. Wager? If bet accepted and he loses Binman will cease posting on Demonland. If on the other hands he win anyone taking the bet will stop posting on Demonland Takers?

It is a ridiculous argument now whether we should have got him at 12 (goodbye darling). It's history. Cooky's our boy and part of the club so lets embrace him. Clubs with strong cultures (at any level and any sport) support and nurture their players, not denigrate and cast out. We chose him not the other way 'round. Cook (and Fitzpatrick for that matter) will provide Neeld and his coaching team a wonderful opportunity to demonstrate their abilty to develop young players.

A lovely cheese is Boak

Whatch ya talkin' 'bout willis? No way GWS are the form side between the dees, them and GC. No way. In round 13 we beat them by 78 points. Between 14-18 they were towelled up by between 15-20 goals (their lowest thrashing in this period was 94 points and their highest loss was 120 points!) Last round they beat Port but that club has very quickly devolved into a basket case and just had their 186 moment. Total breakdown. In those rounds (14-18) GC copped a couple of big losses (Sydney and WC), pushed Geelong and could have won (going down by only 14 points), beat Richmond and just lost to Brisbane (in a game they should have won). We beat GC last round and GWS round 13. Between rounds 14-18 we lost to Brisbane by 61 points, Richmond by 23 points, Freo by 34 points, Port by 28 points (admittedly a shocking loss) and North by 54 points (again a bad loss). Not great but no 15-20 goal losses and 3 of those clubs were/are pushing for top 8 and had a big incentive to bury us. GC will easily beat GWS and we will hammer them. GWS will finish bottom, mark my words. Edit: Just saw ouchers post re GWS form, could have saved myself the trouble. Any way point stands

Woah - freak me out. I thought Keyser Soze and E25 were back (have they ever left?)

I bloody hope so. At the moment he's sitting on my Super coach bench with Mitch Robinson. With an elimination final and only 3 trades i want him back!

What is up with Watts? I'm now officially getting worried. Four weeks is a long time. I hope it is not more serious than they are letting on.

Interesting and reflects the philosophy of Neeld - ie combining ready to go players and youth. Not rocket science obviously and you only need to looks at clubs that have sustained periods of success to see that it works (eg Swans, Geelong, Collingwood). This approach was evident in his recruitment last year of Magner and Couch and i'm sure we'll see more early to mid 20 players getting drafted in from VFL and other similar leagues, along with whatever ready to go players we can trade in (think Boak, Caddy and some from left field that might be part of complex trade deals with multiple clubs). At the same time we will put the time and effort into developing the young kids, and if need be that will be in the VFL (as it should be). The model of developing craft and experience in the magoos harks back to a time where it was common for players to play 30-50 in the 2's before getting a chance in the seniors. Think of the Hawks and players like Ayres and Tuck. Granted there are smaller list these days but still being patient with players and giving them the time is a terrific approach i reckon With another solid pre season and some new blood (and a half decent run with injury) i am hopeful we will move away from the bottom of the ladder next year

Melbourne must have been involved in both incidents some how. I'm sure Greg Denham or on the couch will make the connection soon enough.

Well played Pitmaster. Nothoing like a sledge that is miles off. The Geelong game they could have so easily won and the Brisbane game they should have won (with the coach saying it was the first time they had lost a game they should have won). I just don't get the negativity about the win. As i have said in a previous post, good first quarter and a half, with some of our best ball movement of the season. And the back half was as solid as it has been for some time (and missing Watts to boot). Whilst they were not as good in the second half it was instructive that Neeld answered a question in his presser about whether he was disappointed in the second half with something along the lines of ....no as the indicators we use (pressure acts etc) to measure performance were where we want them to be.... Neeld is hardly one to gild the lilly and has been blunt all year in assessments of where we are at so i have no reason to doubt his sincerity (he certainly looked genuine). But of course all the keyboard coaches and analysts know the drum a whole lot better - and will probably guffaw at modern speak like KPI and say something like 'the scoreboard is the only KPI I rate!'. One thing i like about Neeld is his consistency. All year he has maintained it is not about the here and now or even the scoreboard, but about the right processes and structures (which when in place will ensure the scoreboard will take care of itself) and learning a game style that will win finals. His comment about the second half is yet another example of his singular focus and his refusal to but into the sort of short term thinking that will never get the club out of the malaise it has been in since Northey left the club.

Interesting idea. Example of his approach (and also a good example of his difference to other regimes) is his refusal to play players such as Cook when they're not ready in his mind for AFL, his preparedness to drop senior players, his preparedness to risk getting on their wrong side (i reckon the first coach since Northey who has taken on the senior cartel in an meaningful way) and his focus on his non negotiables (i'd love to know what they are) he expects of his players. The demons needed a new approach and a shake up from the ground up and from what i've seen thus far Neelds the man for the job.

Yeah, good call i reckon. It shows confidence being prepared to back your judgement as a back the way he does. I also reckon it reflects well on the coaching team in so far as if he thought he'd cop it in the neck when it didn't come off if he wouldn't do it. They obviously encourage him to back himself which is great. Also super important he does so with Rivers up forward and Watts out as we miss their capacity to intercept mark and zone off

Spot on. Arguably 4 of our top 5 players not in the side. Add them and it it is a different look all together. Everyone knows Melbourne don't have great depth so taking 4 of your best players out is going to hurt way more than it would for a top side. Just look at GC. Their 2 best players (not yesterday but full stop)? Ablett and Bennell. Take them out of yesterdays GC side (which was not far off full strength by the way) and we would have by 15 goals. I'll say it again - injuries are by far the biggest factor in football in regard to ladder position and we have had a shocking year in that regard.