binman

For just one the one flag? Can you clarify what you mean. I might be well be misinterpreting you, but you seem to be implying port underachieved. And i get the sense that you are also implying that having an incredible defence is not that significant in terms of our Premiership chances. Again, i may well have the wrong end of the stick, but if not yoy might want to come up work a better example- Lyon's first stint at the saints perhaps. Because in the three seasons you note Port WON one flag. In 170 seasons the dees have won 13 flags. That averages out to aprox a flag every 13 years. Call me crazy, but I suspect most teams would be pretty happy with a flag every three years.

They are simply amazing stats. Add the fact that since the start of the 2021 season we have only given up 100 points three times (next best 9) and you get a great sense of how remarkably effective our defence is. And how central defence is to goody's coaching philosophy. I wonder if there has EVER been a more effective defence over any four season block? It's worth noting too that Daniel hoyne, in discussing our new method at the start of the season warned dees fans we are likely going to give up more goals this season ('you've got to give up something to get something' ie a more expansive, turnover based game will open us for goals the other way). Hoyne might still be proved correct, but not on the evidence of the 7 games so far.

Agree. Which is why mcvee is such an important player (who i somehow forgot to highlight) for us. And why Coleman is such a massive out for the lions. In fact given their challenges moving the ball from their back half, an argument could be made Coleman's injury is the most impactful LTI of any club.

No I reckon that's about right (though statistically tmac actually has a case). Buts for both us and the pies that's 4-5 elite kicks is not 2-3.

Mmm, maybe. With only 2-3 elite kicks I think teams then can't carry too many butchers (every team had some) for the turnover game to work. And in that scenario teams can focus on blanketing the 2-3 elite kicks Look at the hawks. They have 2-3 elite kicks but still contually turn the ball over on transition. By the by i reckon if tracc was a better kick, he'd be the best plsyer in the AFL by some margin.

I think, for a number of reasons, that is a fantastic question. One reason is it points to a key point - whatever game plan a team uses they need the right mix of players to execute it. (It also touches on a fascinating question - to what extent should clubs build a list around a game plan or a game plan around a list?) My short answer is, yes our list suits the new game style - this season. I have been banging on for years how poor we are as a kicking team. The current method requires, I think, at least 5 elite kicks, particularly from the back half, wingers and the last kick inside 50. Last season we did not have the players to reliably hit the high risk kicks the turnover, transition game demand - particularly with salo out of sorts. It is no coincidence we have been targeting players in the last 3-4 drafts with elite kicking skills. Going back to the 2020 draft we picked up Bowser and Laurie. Sestan is an excellent kick as is AMW. Even JVR is a fantastic field kick. And they drafted mcvee aheaf of the 2022 season and is arguably now our best kick. We traded in hunter in large part because of his kicking skills. And last year we added Windsor, who is both an excellent kick and fast (another important attribute for the transition game) and the kolt - another elite kick. We traded in billings and McAdam- two more excellent kicks. And we moved tmac back. Despite the nightmares he gave us when last a full time defender he has always been an excellent field kick. He just took too many silly high risk kicks on - something that he had noticeabley reined in. I still worry about our overall kicking skills but as the pies ans cats have shown yoy don't need all players to be elite kicks, you just need 4 or 5 in the right spots. Which raises another interesting question. With Sidebottom out of form, pendles slowing down and teams putting heaps of time into daicos, do the pies now have the right list for a method they perfected?

My tip. We will be absolutely, 1000% cherry ripe against the cats. And I think they will have done a significant amount of planning to minimise the impact of the 5 day break into the blues game (and have great 'learnings' from the 5 day break into the crows game). They may also revert back to a more forward half, trench warfare game against the blues as it a less aerobically taxing method. I suspect both are target games. And I'm quietly confident we will win both.

An interesting element of the changed method is a transition game is less taxing physically because there is less contests. I think that is a key reason why we have adapted our game as as clarry noted post game we have been banged up coming into the finals in the last 2 seasons. But it is a method that MORE taxing aerobicly because it involves more end to end running. And as Steve may notes in this clip, a high turnover game means constantly working hard to get back defensively: Maysie Defence.mp3 So, for the method to work teams need to be super fit aerobically across the board or it just won't work (which I think is why teams like the roos and hawks are struggling to implement it). I think @Binmans PA makes an interesting point that it could be argued Scott was a key influence in the development of the transition game, using a slingshot style since at least 2019. My sense is mcrae adapted that method and created a hybrid method that included some of the key elements of goody's method - fierce contest, territory first (ie not wait for the perfect hit up like cats used to), a defence that gets back hard and trap it inside 50. Mcraes 2022 and (most of) 2023's method feels more helter skelter than the cats method (though the cats also got noticeably more physical and hard at it in their premiership year). But this year, and for the last third of last season, the pies are basically playing our 2021-23 method. I suspect the reason why is they aren't aerobically fit enough to employ the method they perfected. Yet. I suspect there is some truth to the talk that the pies have structured their high performance program to ease into the season. Use the two byes as opportunities to build their collective tank in season. Voss said something similar about how they planned to use the early season bye, and interestingly they are alsi playing a forward half game. If im right the pies may well start getting back to their transition, turnover game. And as much as I hate to say it, could well come in a rush towards the end of the season. And the blues might go to another level.

We are number one in the AFL for rebound 50s. Tigers, who are playing an almost identical game to us, are number two. Cats are number three.

What he said.

I would have loved to have to gone to school with Wattsy! We would have been mates i'm sure. Good bloke. Would have enjoyed partying with him. Sadly he 20 plus years younger than me!

Cold. Clue:

I'll have a go at the other qs tomorrow EO.

My take: General comment Under Goody, since the start of 2021 our method has been forward half (ie get it inside 50 as quickly and directly as possible and keep it there - hence the hated long bomb), territory first, brutal football with insane pressure and huge tackle numbers. Basically Hardwick's template with an improved defensive system and some other tweaks (eg one less at the stoppage). As @rpfc has noted, this year goody is trying to implement a game plan and system that has a focus on turnover and fast effective transition from the back half, ideally into an open forward line to help with 'efficiency'. Territory is still important of course. Switching just allows oppo defences to get set up. So if we can't go fast, we try and at least hit up leads that move us towards our goal. And we seem to be setting up really deep defensively - deeper than other team using a similar method ATM (Cats, Giants, Tigers and Swans - ironically one of the teams who really developed the method, the Pies, are playing our 2021-23 method, as is the blues). The point Turner kicked in the first q after a beautifully weighted kick from Fritter, who had pushed up to the wing (leaving our inside 50 all but empty) and marked after we turned the ball over was the perfect example of the method in action. Fritters and Turners first goals were other good examples. Key categories/indicators no longer as key/critical: Time in Forward Half Metres Gained Inside 50s The 2024 Red and Blue print: First and foremost, as has always been the case, and will always be a fundamental under goody: Defence Contest New in 2024 to reflect the changed method: Transition, back half football - scores from defensive half being the key indicator Scores from turnover (was important last year, but critical this year) Clearances (on watch in terms of relevance/importance)*: *Last season clearances were not key stats, or at least not in the way they once were. And because we have always given up a player at stoppages, even for us, a straight-line team, they were of limited value as key indicators. So i'm not sure how relevant clearances are. We are down on total clearances this season, but are number two for most scores (blues #1) from stoppages and number one for least oppo score when they win stoppages. So i'm starting to think it is pretty important, though again not as important as scores from turnover (which is aprox 60-70% of scoring now - or was last year). Here are some of the KPIs i think are relevant for our 2024 method (the list is obviously not exhaustive and the club would have a huge number of team and individual data points they measure to assess if we are the right track): Key Performance Indicators Defence Opposition score Intercepts Intercept marks Scores from turnover Marks inside 50 Contest Contested possessions Pressure Post clearance possessions Tackles Tackles inside 50 Ground Ball Gets Contested marks Clearances:* Centre Stoppage Scores from stoppages Hit outs Hitouts To Advantage Transition from back half Points from defensive half Inside 50 to score ratio Rebound 50s Score sources (from most to least relevant): Turnover Stoppage* Centre bounces* Kick in* Marks: Uncontested marks inside 50 Contested marks Marks inside forward 50 Marks inside forward 50 per inside 50 Intercept marks Marks on lead High performance program, fitness, and fatigue TBD

I went to the same school as a well known dees player. Year above me. Pillock who was the very definition of a self absorbed alfa jock who when he became a dees player contradicted de la soul.

Maybe I was unclear, but I meant to say exactly what you are saying - NRL coaches DO play players that have flagged they are leaving, even players who as you note have signed contracts with other clubs. The AFL is not there culturaly. Personally I like that it isn't, but i take your point about professional athletes being professional. To be clear, i have no idea why goody didn't pick Grundy come finals. I agree, I think we should have picked him too. I'm basing my opinion on how fundamental buy in to team and connection is to goody's coaching philosophy. But I'm looking from outside and obviously don't know what goody and the club's thinking was or what info they had. And I'd acknowledge it's unfair to suggest Grundy wasn't all in, or wouldn't have tried his guts out if picked. But I still maintain that if petty wasn't fully invested goody wouldn't pick him.

I see your point, but my comment about contenders not giving up 20 goals notwithstanding (which by the by was not meant to he taken literally- as in it never happens), I have the blues as a def contender. I think there are four contenders - dees, cats, giants and blues. I'm not sold on the swans. And port will never be a contender until they sort their defensive system. As someone noted, grand final winners are always in the top 6 for least scores against. In fact I think I'm right in saying the last team to win the flag and not be top 4 for least points is north way back in 1999. Port were 13th last season for least oppo scores. That ain't gonna cut it. If the blues are still 10th for points against come finals then they ate nor winning the flag. Based on their loss to the cats, the thing that would concern me about their defence if I was blues fan is the cats are playing a fast transition from the back half turnover game. That method exposes defences because they can struggle to get back and/or set up their structures. And the cats really hurt them on turnover as evidenced by their crazy good score to inside 50 ratio. Similarly the giants opened them up on transition. They may well sort that issue, particularly when they get McGovern, Marchbank and Saad back, but they will need to. By the by, we are basically trying to implement a very similar method to the cats. Both defences will be fully tested next Saturday night.

Yes, all good points. I'm in no way writing the blues off. To do so would be ridiculous. And if we lose to the cats I'll apply the same logic to us. I take your point about the blues missing two of their most important defenders - Saad and McGovern (Marchbank out hurts too) - but we have repeatedly shown that even with key outs our defensive sytem holds up. Take the lions game. We were smashed in most key metrics, including contest and pressure. Teams moving the ball easily from their back half and unpressured kicks into their 50 is a recipie for being opened up defensively. Yet we were able to keep one of the best offensive teams to 82 points, despite missing Bowser, salo out of tbe game 5 mins into the game and having to run woey and clarry at hb. To be honest, I'd be concerned if I was a cats fans too. They were also porous defensively. No way the cats put 120 points on us this week, even with no salo and Bowser out.

Maybe. Agree on his skill set. But if I was a dockers fan I'd be getting a touch worried about his professionalism, specifically his commitment to his conditioning. Doesn't look elite fit and strong to my eyes. Should be by now given he hasn't missed any big chunks out with injury and has had 4 AFL preseasons.

Usually. It's on tonight because of various scheduling issues. It's going to be funny doing it on a Sunday. Gives me WOS vibes.

Almost nailed it. Danger is an A grader = two b grader hammy. And I'm suspending my assessment of the blues. I mean they were soundly beaten by the cats, with late goals flattering them. A reality check Real contenders don’t give up 20 goals. If i accept the prevailing wisdom on DL that next week is some sort of critical litmus test on our premiership bona fides surely the blues just failed their test?

You can't argue with Clarkson's record, but it's been a long time since he's had success. And dees fans know messiahs don't usually work out so well.

If you have a sytem you only set yourself up for pain if you don’t stick to it.

Not me. Not even at the +30 points line. One of my Golden rules of footy betting is don't gamble on really rubbish teams. You can't trust em. And the roos are truly woeful. If I was forced to have a bet in that match I'd back the under the total match score of 179.5.

Yes, that gastro bout was a shocker. Very embarrassing at the TV week awards. Oh, hold on, misread your post.