binman

And please nev. That tweet you linked, seemingly the ONLY comms about the match by the club was posted at 8.23pm. Which presumably was after the match started. And I'm guessing after someone at the club saw or heard about the disquiet here. And received all of 9 likes. Viral. Not.

Cmon nev, you know how important good communication with fans is. Sure it was a VFL practice match. But what does that mean in this context? Its not some random VFL practice match with some dees players running around to get some match fitness and touch (eg for Sandringham a few years back pre Casey Scorpians). The Casey DEMONS are our reserves team. One of the three teams that make up the demons. We made a strategic decision to not go down the Richmond path and create our own VFL team. Instead as a club we made the call to strengthen the alignment with Casey. Casey changed their a name (which would have caused much angst at casey), linkied the coaching, new jumper and dees song. We train there have financialy invested in the club and have committed to the club and region. Leaving aside the fact that this match was the last meaningful opportunity for some key players to make a case for round one selection, and that there has been reduced practice games and no training access, not letting fans know about the game is not supportive of the Casey Demons. Our reserves team. Apparently. And for Pete's sake how hard would a short piece on the website ahead of the game be? Maybe as sue suggests they didn't want people there but they could still say its on and who is playing. And send Ben Gibson down to report on it. Or the media intern they advertised for. The one they said they wouldn't pay. Another command own goal. Jeez, good communication is 101 for businesses (which we are). A stated club goal is to build our membership base. Sure the die-hards like us will be members but for those fans who are ambivalent about shelling out 200 plus dollars surely good communication is an important part of the value proposition? Particularly for a club that is giving fans finals and has no home base. Like I said if this was a one off then no big deal. But it ain't. Far from it. They had improved considerably in the 2020 preseason period but gone backwards again since. And money is no excuse. Good comms don't need flashy, expensive videos. Just timely information through channels thst are basically free, other than staff time. I hardly ever go to the club's website for info. Which is ridiculous. I would but it is hopeless. I come to demonland. Which is how I found out gus, kozzie and hibberd were playing and therefore some chance to play in out critical round one game. And to learn daw might be some chance too.

Sorry sue, I could care less about the hawks but there is simply no excuse. Mwmbers are the key stakeholders. Many of us didn't ask for money back last year. Those that did likely had to because they needed the money. To not provide information about tgis game is a total joke. If it was a one off then maybe you give the club a pass. But it unfortunately it isn't. Apet from respecting the fans such poor communication is just rubbish business. What makes it worse is the covid related cuts are no excuse. These days content is basically free. Send Ben Gibson down take a few grainy photos, maybe a video on the phone and 25 tweets. And alerting fans to the game even less effort and time.

A stellar few weeks? He came 6th in coleman with 50 odd goals in 2018. Are you suggesting he kicked a bag of 10 for five weeks straight?

I'm more interested in the article that was linked in the gawny one that said: 'Fremantle’s depth will be put to the test immediately with four first-choice players to miss early stages of the season after a casualty-ridden pre-season derby clash with West Coast last weekend. Big man Rory Lobb avoided a need for surgery on the right knee he injured in Sunday’s clash at Optus Stadium but will have to wear a brace for approximately six weeks..... All-Australian forward Michael Walters, 30, suffered a hamstring injury and scans showed he would likely miss three to four weeks. Youngsters Bailey Banfield (syndesmosis) and Mitch Crowden (calf), who were pushing for selection against Melbourne in round one, would also miss the early part of the season.'

That's exactly right. It is basic footy. In fact it is basic stuff in all team sports - ie keep in the contest, apply pressure when you can and most of all help out your teammate. I don't want to run down Oliver, but that sort of give and block should be second nature - in training, in practice matches and of course in games. It means you recognise your involvement doesn't end when you dispose of the ball and you have your teammates back. Literally and metaphorically.

I can't stand McClure. For all the reasons you have pointed out. I can't believe the ABC employ him. Only Shaw comes close to being as thick and out of touch.

Rings true. Sadly

Agree. But culture will help turn a team of very good players into a championship team. One example. Few would argue that our best pure midfielder (ie not tracc) is Oliver. One of the best players in the AFL. In the tigers practice match in the last quarter he brilliantly won a contested ball, accelerated from the contest and then handballed to Salem who was ahead of him, about 70 metres from goal and had space to run into. Great work. And it should have set up a scoring opportunity. But didn't. Because Oliver stopped once he handballed and didn't do the basics - sheppard/block the player chasing him. Footy 101. That player was able to put enough pressure on Salem to affect his kick and Salem kicked it straight to a tigers defender inside 50. A turnover instead of a shot on goal. All because Oliver was lazy and chose not to do the basics. No doubt that error was picked up in the review with coaches. But i reckon it has more power coming from a teammate Now, perhaps a teammate pointed that error out to him. I certainly hope so. I hope a senior player gave him a bake as defence is an area he need to improve in. I hope so because that indicates the sort of culture Its time noted was embedded at the swans Sure it is a practice match but that is absolutely no excuse. And i'm not wanting to bag out Oliver, who is an out and out star. But Oliver is senior player - and should be setting an example to his teammates and in particular the young players', who must look up to him. And it is hard for him to hold teammates to standard he doesn't reach. To be honest, it is for reasons related to culture that I have come to appreciate what Jack Viney brings to the team more and more. He can't hold a candle to Oliver talent wise but he would have made the block.

Lewis said much the same thing about the super successful hawks team he played in. The players set and maintained the standards. Let their teammates know when those standards were not met and payers answered to each other when not met. And also said the culture was different at the dees when he got there....

Fair points. And simplistic is McClure's one wood. Agree that players being honest with each other is no silver bullet. But in more general sense honesty is an element of a broader culture. And culture is a critical element of success. Culture in footy club has many elements and whole club culture is super important. But i reckon the most critical element is the culture of the team itself - that's to say the players. They have to drive each other and set the standards and non negotiables.

Agree. Players make teams.

Ta. I'm going with that. Will play.

You might be right. I assumed the 12th day was the day before the game. Cutting it a bit fine otherwise.

That article is a bit confusing. Surely the 12 day rule means he is 100% out for round one?

Bit verbose for you joeboy, but i agree. I went to the game and have struggled since to assess the performance. But in hindsight, i reckon you're right. The team were not really up for the contest, bar a handful of players - in particular jetts who was ferocious at the contest all game. Trac barely got out of a canter. Pollyanna noted the dogs had 24 more clearances and had 51 more contested possessions, which supports this perspective. When was the last game, practice or regular season, where we had 51 less contested possessions than the opposition? For that matter when did we last lose the inside 50 count by 23. It really did have the feel of a practice match - and as you say that vibe was reinforced by the team they selected. Yesterday, I got around to watching the post match presser and goody was the most relaxed I have seen him in a presser i reckon. Sure he said the performance wasn't good enough, but with no real angst or feeling. It made me wonder if the club approached the game as hit out rather than being fully wound up. And a chance to give some of the younger players a chance to make a case for selection. When i saw the two mid fields i had no expectation of winning. It was just never going to happen. Add to that the low energy of the team, something i suspect might have been orchestrated (ie they made it clear to the team the focus was on the practice not the win) and I'm not sure much can be taken away from the game. I get the general angst about the performance but i wonder if the Tiger's game is a better gauge of where we are at. We selected a much better team , played the reigning premiers, who fielded close to their best team and we were clearly up for the game (the tigers too, though perhaps not as much). And we won. Some random thoughts about the game; It is worth nothing that we were ahead at half time (or close to it). Yes the dogs probably should have been 4 goals up - but they weren't Given our energy, their lineup and the fact we had such a young team, it was no surprise they dominated the second half I concur with the comments that the younger players who were given a chance to show their wares failed to make a case, with the possible exception of Bowey - and him only because he can kick! Hunt should be told to only kick the ball 50 metres, or not at all if a long kick is not on he needs to handball it For any number of reasons, watching live is so much better than on TV. One reason is you can really see how critical running and covering ground is - and who is working hard and who is not. Nibbler worked his guts out and Langdon too. But Harmes didn't. In the last quarter Harmes lost a contest. The player he lost it to (the young fella who played on Tmac in the last) ran off him and won the ball again later in the possession chain down on the dogs half forward - with Harmes trailing 20 metres behind. I think it set up a goal. not good enough. Can't see Baker making it. Simply does not get enough of the ball. Sad to say but Hunt might not either - and for much the same reason Gawn is the best mark i have seen since Teasdale and Dempsey - and he is seemingly even more athletic this year I am not so critical of the constant long bombs by may from kick outs. I thought they might have been experimenting with taking advantage of the extension of the player on the mark. May was kicking it from 30 odd metres, and easily covers 50, so the ball was getting to a marking contest 80 odd metres from goal. At the contests we almost always had two bigs, though didn't take many marks. Yes they rebounded from that contest quite often, but with our A grade mids we will win out share of those balls and the next kick is inside our 50. We did win some and i think got at least one coast to coast goals from the tactic Our terrible foot skills remain our biggest issue. I was sitting on the 50 metre arc on the city side wing and got a birds eye view of Bont and Mcrae going to work with their inside 50 kicks, ability to kick diagonally and Bont's shot at goal from 50. Beautiful. Sure they are top shelf players, but Daniels is an even more reliable kick and across their best 22 they have 5 or 6 other excellent kicks. We butchered the ball again. And missed dinky little 20 metre kicks under no pressure (Hunt says hi). Even basic things like kicking to a free player in space so he doesn't have stop to mark it seems beyond us (Langdon says hi) Our kicking issues mean we need Melksham to step up, puts pressure on us to fast track Bowey (who you can tell from a small sample is an excellent kick), have to get Salem in more offensive positions, we need rivers to go to the next level, and possibly get Fritter up on the half forward and more into general play I thought Spargo was better than many suggest - but maybe i need to watch the replay The best game i have seen Lever play. He was awesome. Looks more confident in his lateral movement and looks to be bigger and stronger. This year we will get our dividend from recruiting him and Lever. On watching the replay, it is pure joy to watch a game of footfall without having to listen to the peanuts that masquerade as commentators. Get the AFLW crew to do AFLW, and [censored] of Lyon, Brown, Riewoldt, BT et al. Hopeless everyone of them (except Daisy - keep her)

This in a nutshell is why it was it was silly for Bartlett and pert to agree to speaking. And why it was right thing to do to encourage the group to find another venue and remain on the bill, so to speak. And leaving aside being the right thing, it is good business. A great irony of the thrust of the complaints against such a decision ( ie that they are driven by a so called woke minority with an outsized, social media driven, influence and threat of being 'cancelled') is that in reality they are often cold hard, business decisions. The bottom line is misogyny is bad for business. Like the dr Seuss palaver. What a nonsense all the woke cancel palaver is. The dr Seuss foundation made a business decision to no longer publish six of their 100 odd books because they were racist. Six that didn't sell i might add. That's not cancel culture. It is the opposite. It is a business choosing to respond to the market. A business decision. The right one, but a business decision nonetheless. A decision that is made in the context of a changing culture, where casual racism is not acceptable, not some woke minority but to the majority. They didn't do it 20 years ago - when it would have hurt sales.

Freudian slip?

I'd like to see them play him deep, out of the square. That is where they should have played him last year. And it is where they will play Brown, so it makes sense for him to take that role whilst Brown is out. He can still get up and down the ground, just as Brown did with the Roos, and use his tank but out at CHF his lack of mobility and pace gets exposed. And he is not a great contested mark. His marking is much better on the lead or hitting contests at pace and at full forward he will get more chances to take those sort of marks

Perhaps with the covid related cuts, someone made a typo?

I said to a mate at the game yesterday that i cannot recall another player, or at least a dees players, dropping so far, in so short a time frame. In 2018 he came sixth in the Coleman and looked a star. Last season he was clearly hampered by injury and was too heavy. Yesterday he looked to be moving better and and has slimmed down but is still living in struggle town. To be fair he worked hard, but he couldn't take a mark to save himself, has a huge turning circle and his body language was still a bit iffy. And the opposition coach saw fit to put a baby on him, who on at least one occasion out bodied him and on few occasions ran off him. Ironically we are in the same boat as Carlton and need a key forward. Like his brother he has been given an opportunity to reestablish himself. I hope for the dees sake he takes it.

In two years? Moving the goal posts a bit there JG. You argued that your opinion that he 'simply shouldn't have been playing AFL football on many many occasions during his career' was 'indisputable'. And as evidence you argued that the fact 'he didn't find a suitor over the trade period and has now been delisted at under 25 years of age' proved your point (an 'near unprecedented' scenario!). To which I responded with this question: 'out of curiosity what happens to your argument about not being AFL standard if another AFL club gives him, say, a rookie spot on their list?' Well, that has come to pass. You are correct Omac has not developed into the player i thought he would in his first couple of seasons. But i will also say that post that period, I was always realistic about his ability. My comments about him were almost always in response to what I saw as inaccurate or unfair comments. For what is worth, I agree that he is likely to play more games in the VFL than the AFL this year. Hell, he may not get an AFL game. I agree with Deespicables comments about the saints game. His deficiencies were plain to see. Realistically he is likely to be a depth player for the blues. You've noted before you have done some talent spotting for clubs. I'll take that on face value. Given that experience, do you really think an AFL recruiting and list management team would waste a super valuable list spot for a player that is as average as you think Omac to be? A player of whom you made this comment: 'posters are beyond out of touch if they truly believe he was never as bad as what some like myself believed'. Do you think Carlton are gifting him a coveted spot on their list? Or perhaps they are also out of touch? I'm not defending OMcac. I wish him good luck. I hope he does well but he's no longer a dee so i'm not fussed either way. What i am saying, is your assessment of his ability is wrong. In my opinion. He was, and is, a better player than you think he is. In my opinion. And the facts are on my side, i have to say. Your assessment of his ability is clearly not shared by professionals who are paid to make such assessments. He was drafted by an AFL club. Played 80 odd AFL games for that club, before being delisted. And has now been recruited by a second AFL club. A club that has the benefit of being able to watch every single minute of football Omac has played for the last 5 years or so. And watched him over a preseason. So the blues are making a fully informed decision. And with all that information have come to the conclusion he can contribute to their club. An AFL club, not some country level football team many had written him off as struggling to even get into. As Carlton's Head of List Management Nick Austin said: “It is never an easy situation for a train-on player however from the moment Oscar walked into the football club late last year he has done everything possible to earn a spot on the list. He already has six years of experience at the elite level, has a great work ethic and above all is a great person who will be a welcome addition to the playing group.”

.....another AFL club has elected to add Omac to their list. And, unlike the dees, the blues had 80 odd games of AFL footy and a preseason to base their assessment on, and a professional recruiting and list management team have come to the conclusion he is AFL standard and can make a positive contribution to their team.

I did. And it was a neat, 25 metre kick inboard that hit a target (i think rivers) that had opposition players around him. Rubbish kicking skills is our biggest single issue. Bowey will help address this issue.

Credit where it is due. Good move.