Slartibartfast

And to think I was wondering which fairytale to read my son tonight. The opening post will do. I now know why we need such strong consumer protection laws.

I used to think Demonland was a footy forum but now I realize it's more a comedy forum where footy is occasionally discussed - certainly it's a secondary consideration. Some time ago I started to read the Potential Trades Tread and couldn't help but to laugh (I couldn't face the Danger thread). Then when I thought people were getting a grip in that thread a bloke comes along and starts asking riddles. Pretty funny and everyone seems to enjoy it - so many users on at one time. When that riddle isn't solved a Riddler comes along and asks another and CIP chips in with another but the joke is wearing thin and while others try to copy they can't match the originality of the first. Sadly the riddle is never solved. As it happens this didn't turn out to be the most important time for the MFC since 2000 and as far as I'm aware the riddle has never been explained (perhaps the answer is somewhere deep in the Danger thread but I'm all laughed out at the moment). But the riddler is still much admired and defended by many who so like to be involved in the jokes even if they are the butt. So then this morning I start reading this thread thinking that the comedy is running a bit thin. I'm shocked. I reckon if I looked closely I could see blood on my screen. Screams, abuse, distress and anger pour out. Then a bloke gets up and says "hey, this mightn't have been so bad after all". He's told he's a fool but a few clear thinkers follow. A crack in the dam of hostility appears. Then the MFC play the cruelest joke of all. They put Sam Frosts highlight package up and a couple of photo's. It's about 3 minutes long and surprise surprise shows Slammin Sam doing ok (I've often wondered what the complementary package of "Sam's greatest mistakes" would look like and wonder if GWS will put that up). Then there is a tremor, the dam starts to look seriously shaky and water is flowing faster now. All of a sudden the crack becomes a gash the water flows faster and faster, the clouds clear and all is good with the world. What was the inept sacrifice of pick 23 now becomes a master stroke of professional list management. From being screwed we've identified our man, courted him with professionalism and been decisive in our actions. Rather than buckling in the wake of Saints bluff we've acted decisively and done what it takes. We've backed ourselves in. Well done MFC!! This kid has gone from not being worth anything but a very late round pick (after all an aging second string ruckman from the same club was traded for a much later pick) to someone who will be better than an All Australian key position backman sort by most of the top clubs and who's new contract was deemed to be worth the top level compensation. What a win! Frost > All Australian dud. Sam welcome to the madhouse that is the MFC. You'll have a lovely honeymoon until your first game. Even then you'll be cut a little slack but in time, like poor old Tommy McDonald, you'll be vilified and posters in threads will start questioning your credentials and condemning you to the dustbin of failed MFC trades and draft picks. But just remember, underneath it all there will be Saty continuing to support you and the silent minority appreciating your efforts and understanding that you are a 21 year old key position defender playing on the oppositions best forwards and learning your trade. Good luck mate. Oh, and if you want a laugh just read this thread!!

It's a while since I've been involved Jack so I'm not sure but keeping an injured player on the senior list but putting him on the LTIL used to mean that any promoted rookie and his match and benchmark payments were not included in TPP calculations. (Rookies were outside the TPP and could be paid in excess of base rates). Given our list I'm pretty confident TPP is not an issue. There is no way of just putting Trenners on the rookie list AFAIK. My understanding is he must be delisted and then redrafted in the rookie draft and this clearly leaves open the possibility that another club might pick him before us in either the ND or rookie draft. I'm not sure if his contract needs to be paid out in these circumstances but I'd imagine the financial arrangements would be that he'd be paid the same but the salary would be within the TPP. As far as advantages go if he goes onto the rookie list it means we get an earlier pick as we'd have a spot on the senior list rather than the rookie list. I'm betting that he'll stay on the senior list for next year but on the LTIL.

Yes you can make room but I think it's a dangerous philosophy in terms of player management. It's also very costly as you need to pay out the contract and then pay for the replacement player. In a club where finances are important you'd need to be sure the cost is worthwhile. Unless we have targets we really want or earlier picks than we currently have it seems like an expensive exercise to me.

Do the maths. There aren't any spots on the list - amazingly.

So which Hawthorn player is it?

I hope you weren't one of the one's talking about loyalty and all. Keep him on the list and give him the best chance at a career. He's more than earned that.

Best thing for JT. I'm very pleased for him.

Trengove.

If my memory serves me correctly, it was. Looked like a point from where I was sitting too!

I've been both involved in trade week and privy to trade information in the past. The concept of putting anything on DL was abhorrent.

Now those two comments seem completely at odds with one another. Look I don't care one way or the other. But if this all turns to nothing GNF's reputation will go from guru to .... well, choose your word.

I'd moderate your excitement. GNF was way off the mark with Clark. My experience of trade week is much is discussed, little happens. BTW, I love the speculation and rumours.

It's called a contract. He's far from assured of a flourishing future. If you think he is you're blinded by bias.

Ain't footy a funny game. All season I read bile spewed forth at our players like Grimes and McKenzie who have shown as much good guy and loyalty as Trengove and yet out of season there are those who are threatening to burn their memberships if Trenners is traded. And one poster suggested comparing Trenners loyalty to McKenzie's wasn't relevant because Trenners was a better player. So much for supporter loyalty. Really reading DL can do your head in sometimes. And secondly I can't find a post that talks about what would be best for Trenners, just that we shouldn't let him go because he's got blue sky and loyal. If Trenners now says he is happy to go I wonder what all the loyalist will say. What many are missing is the move to Richmond may be the best thing for the footballer, the one you want to "reward" for his loyalty by keeping him. Talk about killing with kindness.

rjay he said it can, not that it "was" the reason. He was never quick and the game has got faster in the 5 years he's been on our list.

No, if he has a career it's good at both Richmond and Melbourne. But I'm assuming any contract Richmond offer him will be well in advance of his current contract at MFC. TBH I don't think he's all that good a player. It's best for him to take what is being offered to give him the best chance. If he does become elite good on him but I've never seen the pace, lateral movement, strength or disposal skills for him to do that. He's a nice one pace accumulator but I think the pace of the game may have him struggling. I think Trenners career may be a pathway to nowhere at whichever club he plays. It gives me no pleasure to say that but that's the way I see it.

So Jaded and Pants, if you were his manager what would you advise him to do. If it's accept the Tiges offer (assuming it's good which it will be), why don't you want the best for the kid?

I've read most of this thread but not all so apologies if this has been said. If I was Trengove's manager I'd tell him to jump at the Richmond offer. Unlike others I'm in the boat that says Trengove is an average footballer never likely to be and A grader. He's a marking small IMO and will struggle to find a role in a team. I've always thought this but was convinced when I sat in the Southern Stand and watched Brock out pace him to a loose ball. Trengove's initial reaction would always have been to stayed at MFC, he's that sort of bloke, but I think it's in his best interest to leave. If he has an uninterrupted season in 2015 and fails to improve much he's shot in terms of future value. His "blue sky" will have evaporated and his future will be mediocre at best. Those hanging on to the "now he's fit" theory should keep in mind his underwhelming 2012 and 2013. If he goes to the Tigers he'll get at least a 3 year contract on good coin - they obviously rate him. He'll leave behind toxic memories of mismanagement he endured at MFC and he'll leave behind all the expectations placed on him by us. He'll go to a club that has played finals for two years, he'll be surrounded by much better players and he'll have a longer, better contract. I have upmost respect for Jack but reality is he's been a bitter disappointment a far as output goes. I hope wherever he ends up he succeeds. But I think it's in his interest to go and in our interest to trade him regardless of whether the trade in part of a "bigger picture".

Neeld, Watters, Sanderson and now McCartney. All rookie coaches from 2012 onward. And they all missed HInkley. What on earth is going on.......

I can't comment really other than to say that with the F/S bidding process you're committing your pick without the knowledge of who else has already been taken. You forgo your chance to get a genuine slider. Billy, as Jack says, is probably worth more than pick 29. Beyond that it's probably as much witch doctor stuff as anything. Looking into the future to see what the player will be rather than what he is. Recruiters will have seen some things with Billy that concern them and have marked him down for that. On all the available information it's hard to see what - good speed and agility, great endurance and an ability to find the ball. His kicking? His decision making? There will be something.

I admire your optimism Jack. I go right back to Ryan Ayres (?) watching with you at Sandy where we thought we'd got a ripper. How many have come and gone since? I read Redlegs with admiration as he argues that picks 2 and 3 could set us up for years. McLean and Sylvia, Trengove and Scully, Morton and Grimes, Watts and Blease all come to mind. One day it might happen and I'll celebrate when it does. I remember speaking to Neale Daniher once and telling him I was mightily impressed with Rivers and Hunter - remember him? He told me the time to get excited was when they did something in the seniors. At least I could with Rivers. I like what I've seen with Billy. I liked what I saw with Newton and Nic Smith too. Good luck Billy, I like what I've seen and read and I'm really please to have him. I'll get excited when he plays a game and is in our best 6 in the seniors.

Sorry, didn't realize it was so cryptic. I'd like Billy to have been a steal at 2, not a steal at 39. I'd have loved it if he was far and away the best player in the draft. That would have been really good. As it is we've picked up someone the competition rated at 29 for pick 39. Frankly, while that's nice and I'm pleased we've got him it's not, for example, the exceptional deal Sydney got with Henley or we got with Viney.

I'd have rather we willingly used pick 2, but that's just me. Welcome Billy, loved your old man, one of my very favourites, hope you can carve out at similar career.

People ignore stats when it suits them and use them when it suits them. I watch a lot of footy. We played boring unadventurous footy in contrast to many other clubs. We scored less in 2014 than 2013 with what most would have said was a much better list - Cross, Tyson, Vince for starters. I hear that Roos says our game is built on defense and I hear that we've only instituted part of his game plan - building blocks if you like, but I want to see the other half this coming year. I can understand that someone like Blease didn't like it. I don't support him in that attitude but lets not kid ourselves that our game plan is anythhng but bog ugly and not much fun for the players to play. Then compare that with someone like PA, NM and Richmond. Even Brissy play attacking footy and with a list that was ravaged with injury and a team that on paper wasn't as good as ours had a much more successful season.