DeeSpencer

Can't believe the love for Selwood. Sure he's good but doesn't the ducking the head crap just kill you? It's within the rules, but I can't see it been within the pure spirit of the game. I respect Judd and he's an amazing footballer to watch at times, but his face is a killer. 1. Bartel - marks, goals, wins contested ball, sensational to watch and a personal favourite. 2. Hayes - his first grand final last year I think is just amazing. Should be shown to all our blokes who aren't putting in (cough Davey cough). 3. J. Riewoldt - Buddy is good, but Riewoldt takes it up a notch. Apologies to Nat Fyfe, Stephen Hill, Buddy, Brown, Ablett, Dangerfield, Dusty Martin and Cotchin. Lewis Jetta's run of points last year was also pure gold entertainment wise.

FB: Bartram Warnock Frawley HB: Macdonald Rivers Blease C: Jones Moloney Evans HF: Jetta Watts Green FF: Petterd Gawn Maric Foll: Martin Sylvia Nicholson Int: Jurrah, McKenzie, Gysberts Sub: Davey OUT: Newton - simply not good enough Bate - see Newton Tapscott - Injured IN: Gawn, Blease, Nicholson Davey as the sub is something a bit controversial, but if he's not injured I'm not sure dropping him is the answer. Put him as the sub and bring him on fresh to see if he can get into the game that way. We'll probably be already losing but the freshen up might help. The Judd factor is massive, but I'm liking the idea of bringing in Nicholson for a shot at him. He has the speed and endurance and I think Bartram is needed to play on Garlett.

Another bagging Brock thread. I hope he can find a yard and get it together, he's clearly worked very hard to get in best physical shape so its sad to see him struggle. Why people feel the need to start these threads is beyond me. One thing I believe is Carlton poached a very good coach of ours in Ratten.

He's only in his 4th year. His first 2 were very good. His 3rd started with a hiccup, as did this year. We are going about this the right way by dropping him and working on his deficiencies. Half of this problem was caused by us rushing him back in the 22 straight from injury/not fixing these things last year.Please provide examples of his disgraceful attitude. I haven't heard of any problem with his training or his off field behaviour. His main problems seem to be lack of accountability and lack of hardness on field. These do not necessarily relate to a poor off field attitude.

Big calls are a plenty, but I believe the next 5 or so weeks will make or break Morton's career. He's in the VFL to work on his deficiencies and his article today on MFC website shows that even if he doesn't agree with them he at least understands the reasons for his demotion. He seemed to improve from week 1 in the VFL to week 2 in the VFL which is promising. If he continues to improve his form and his game style then he'll be back in no time and better for it in the long run.

How about the Grant Thomas rotating skippers theory. Start with Grimes, then Trengove, then Scully over the next few years. Is it crazy, or is it a way of achieving something instead of picking another sub par captain.

Bartram on Milne thanks. But I've got no problem if Tapscott cleans him up.

Anyone know what Jurrah did? I don't want to bring McKenzie back too early, but if he plays well then he could be used as the sub.

Out: Bail, Garland, Dunn, Wonaeamirri As for the In's I think they'll come out of Rivers, Macdonald, Blease, Strauss, McDonald, Evans, Morton, Nicholson and Bate. Possibly 8 of our best 22 out next week. Ouch.

If Martin is injured but Rivers is fit I'd go with a Warnock/Newton combination. Not sure what Warnock can do in the ruck but at least he could defend a big ruckman around the ground.

Was very good in the midfield. His work rate was excellent. He doesn't have lightening speed but unlike Benell who's spot he took he seems to find the footy. Good luck to Maric lets hope he kicks on.

Point 2 was pleasing. Point 1 was the one that really made the difference. The tackling, work rate and desperation to win the ball was wonderful. Should also add point 3 - we played a horrible opposition.

Firstly there is no such thing as elite without the support! If you are elite (Judd, Ablett, Pavlich) you can do it with out support. Sylvia at the moment is a classic front runner. It's not neccessarily a horrible thing but he plays he's best footy in a side that has others around him to do some of his running. I was hoping this year he found consistent form like late last year and went up a gear. At the moment it appears he hasn't.

Can Davey defend one on one? Would any good forward continue to drag him deep and lower his possession count more? I'd prefer him starting on the wing/half forward and running up and down the corridor.

Smart ruckmen and clubs have worked him out. Against any half decent ruck he is restricted as to where he can hit the ball due to fact he doesn't get over the top of his opposite ruckman, more so he restricts the other ruckmen from getting near it and drops it down to our side of the contest.But really it should be more predictable for us that any other club. Crazy.

Lynden [censored] for brains Dunn ran through him at training. He's pissing blood and restricted to swimming. He was just coming into some form at VFL level and has once again copped an injury. No doubt the majority will see this as Strauss' fault.

I'd love to pick the eye's out of this post, but I won't.I agree. Leaving one defender at home I think is a smart move, especially when up against such dangerous forwards. But then you still need to apply forward pressure. So how do you do both? The secret I think is to have a really fit and hard working midfield/half forward and back line. That's one thing the Cats have, with midfielders/players as fit as mids across the lines. Collingwood do as well. We don't!

Hurley isn't slow. Watch as he competes in the air and then can pick the ball up at ground level. He was reactive today though.He simply got smashed by a good defender (Tarrant) in a very good defence. Was he much worse than Riewoldt (the best CHF in the league) in 2 grand finals last year? The problem is to play through your CHF against the pies is a disaster. You have to spread there defense and move the ball quickly, often going across the ground and down it. Hird is spot on. Your CHF is your most important player. So Hurley is theirs and really Watts is ours.

He was hardly a success last year. But he didn't exactly fail either. He was our best second ruck option but was hampered by repeat small injuries.

I don't want any more excuses so I agree with the first bit of your post (that I haven't quoted), but I don't think being bigger and more aggressive necessarily gets you far. Collingwood have 2 big boys upfront but besides that probably only have a few players (Swan, Ball, O'Brien, Maxwell) in the rest of the ground who are strong aggressive players. A 22 who all go hard at the ball and are collectively strong is more important. We need the big key forwards and Watts and Cook are the hope there and I'm willing to wait, but I'm not worried about the rest of the ground. Frawley, Rivers, Tapscott, Trengove, Moloney, Sylvia - we've got our share. We don't need a team of big units, rather a team of 22 who don't shirk the issue.Our major problems right now are: 1. Lack of big forwards - As mentioned above this will take time 2. The players are a bit confused by the game plan. I know this as a fact. This should be resolved quickly and is not acceptable. You can have a bad game plan but to have one the players haven't mastered is very average coaching. 3. An inexperienced midfield. The loss of McDonald has hurt us especially considering we've got Scully and McKenzie out (and until recently Morton). Moloney is up and about but Gysberts is very fresh, Bail is new to tagging/the centre square at AFL level, Sylvia is probably best suited in midfield bursts and Trengove is hardly a veteran. 4. The whole ground defence hasn't been good enough. This is linked to the first 3 points. We need bigger forwards, a sharper game plan and a more experienced midfield to get this spot on, but it needs to lift quickly.

Good call. That's exactly how I see it.The midfield I'm not overly concerned about. They are adjusting to life without Junior who used to do half the running and tackling for them. McKenzie (tackling) and Scully (running) will be a huge boost. Bail, Gysberts and Trengove are all inexperienced in playing the most important position on the ground. However, we'll be a much better side when we get a forward line who play with the courage and work rate of our backline. At the moment I don't think any of Jurrah, Green, Dunn or Watts do. Green's been getting his work rate up this year. He was trying to lead by doing the spectacular but I think has started to realise the simple stuff is more important. Jurrah lifted his defensive work and close observers will notice Watts' tackling has stepped up this year. Back on topic. I'm all for Juice. Dunn's best form (and goals) came last year when he was played as a defensive forward capable of dragging an attacking HBF deep and using his height advantage. This year he's been played deep as a tall and I just don't think it's working. Juice has upped his work rate massively in the VFL and I think deserves a chance.

Maybe you're right. But Roos went within a kick of 2 grand finals winning one and Lyon the same. Have things really been revolutionized by Mick Malthouse who has been coaching for what 20+ years?Contested ball, defence and a well drilled structure are still the backbone of Collingwood's success regardless of forward press and other stuff. Personally I'd love to see Bailey get it together and get the ultimate success, but having Roos would be interesting. When was the last time a premiership coach came to Melbourne? I've heard the rumour he's coaching us next year, but I'm not sold on it yet. It could just be he takes a special interest in our group - we did give the worst loss of his career last year and that alone might have been enough for him to think that we've got a playing group capable of more than we are giving at the moment.

Green - not yet captain Jones - unJones like game Bartram - Blease or Strauss? Watts - MUST KEEP SPOT Gysberts - does hard stuff Bennell - like in backline Frawley - best still coming Trengove - hits the post Morton - run V soft Sylvia - arrogant or confident? Dunn - We want Juice! Grimes - the new Bruce Garland - had sloppy moments Moloney - dominant first half Jurrah - better defensive game Rivers - led the way Wonaeamirri - little brilliant moments Martin - decent hit outs Tapscott - the new Grimes Davey - need more words --- thought one of Bailey's better coaching decisions was to give Davey some easy kill time up forward, instead of having to be the go to man as he is most weeks Jamar - just too BIG! Bail - better each week

He's playing awful footy at the moment. Got a couple of easy ones today but he really isn't looking dangerous as a forward, exerting minimal forward pressure and probably isn't great as a midfielder any more either. He needs to lift in the next few weeks. Our leadership group as a whole is struggling. Jones is just battling through games, Moloney is playing well but has had an off field slip, Grimes and Davey aren't near their best. Probably the only one who's going well is Rivers, and he's only a few classic Rivers brain fades away from looking rubbish!

3rd quarter and first 5 minutes of the first was rubbish. We can't afford these lapses against the good sides. The rest of the game was ok but still scrappy. This was a bad side even for the suns (No Ablett, Brown, Krarkouer or Bennell) and we let them score too much. Forward pressure went up and down as did the midfield work rate.