DeeSpencer

If I were Simon Goodwin/Josh Mahoney/Gary Pert or Glenn Bartlett it would be clean out your locker on Monday, thanks for the 2 years and good luck in the media.

Bruise free, treacle slow, mentally soft and physically weak players don't get to go around talking up their leadership and importance, not if I had anything to say about it.

Whilst not exactly good I thought in the periods of the game where the midfield and forward line gave the backline any kind of up the ground pressure they did pretty well. The first half really consisted of decent backline play for large chunks with awful midfield pressure at times creating easy St Kilda goals.

The 3rd quarter when we played a loose man behind the ball was probably worse than the first half.

31 minutes ago, Diamond_Jim said:

Strange fixture.....men against boys... what can go wrong?

The Preuss lacerated Jye Caldwell's kidney last year in the same fixture.

I would've thought it would make more sense to distribute each of these kids in to different VFL games so they could play as the 22nd/23rd men in flanker type roles that kept them away from the hot stuff, but this is a good test for them.

Read the age article guys. He'll be 33 to start next season with 3 years and 4 million dollars worth of contract to go.

Even if the Swans agree to give him up for no cost in a trade and pay 500k a season so they've got salary cap room you're looking at 2.5M/3 so over 800k a year.

I know it's a different sport but LeBron James is a different level of superstar even from the Buddy level and he's 34 and can't do what he used to do and the Lakers are paying for it.

Ageing superstars are very difficult to fit in to a side in a way that works for everyone. Geelong suffered by being too accommodating to Ablett last year and now he's back in a limited half forward role he and the team are vastly improved. To get a similar result out of Buddy is even harder given he's more of a structural player as a tall. You could do it but to make it value for money you'd need the money to be massively less than it is.

One thing we have to be careful not to do here is upset him based on a low ball offer. The rumour is that's what got Lever really thinking about moving home and there's been lots of other cases of that.

It's a good situation to wait and see until mid year and then maybe make a decent counter offer that is fair for both sides.

17 minutes ago, Skuit said:

They likely voted before watching the replay. I thought he had played well as well. I was wrong. Watch the third quarter again - almost every possession was turned over or a missed opportunity.

His work rate looked exceptional, the left foot goal and the sense to draw the free and kick a clutch goal both commendable, otherwise yeah he butchered it consistently. The only question I have is who was better? Clearly Gawn, otherwise it was a game with a lot of lousy players. Plenty of hard running and a little bit of class in front of goal was worth recognising by the coaches.

5 hours ago, stevethemanjordan said:

I think we should be going after Zac Jones in a big way. 

Fits the mould perfectly. 

Tough, breaks lines with hard running and pace and normally uses the ball very well. 

Likes the fake tough stuff more than the real stuff and often uses the ball like he's drunk. Rushes in to contests and rushes his disposal, both traits that aren't particularly suited to the wing or half back. I can't see him being worth the price. The Swans or Saints can have him.

It won't be easy to find a perfect outside runner, they aren't easy to come by, but I still think we can do better than Zak. Ed Langdon would be nice, skills aren't great but he's a more natural outside runner, unfortunately he's started the year in good form and might become costly.

6 hours ago, SFebes said:

Recruiting/drafting way too many injury prone players IMO.

Which ones?

KK sure. 

Lever had 1 major injury before in his career. May had a couple of small soft tissues but had played a lot more than he missed the last few years. A lot of our recent recruits - Melksham, Hibberd, Lewis, Garlett, Preuss aren't guys who had bad injury histories. 

Same goes for our draft picks. I may be wrong but as far as I can remember in the last 5 years the only guy we've drafted who had a big injury concern on him was Weideman. 
 

52 minutes ago, one_demon said:

Was KK recruited to play on the wing?

You recruit players because you think they have the right traits to play the game not especially one position but yes he spent the whole summer training with the mids to play wing and looked pretty good in uncontested drills at training. The groin injury was a set back and he had 2 pretty awful games. Plus the concussion issue raising its head again (pardon the pun).

Need to sort that out and get him playing consistent footy in the VFL, anything more than that would be a bonus for this year.

5 hours ago, Skuit said:

Melksham to me has been lucky over the MFC journey with respect to frees, and in my opinion is now looking to engage one-on-one contact to draw such frees rather than going to meet the ball - in which marking respect he's been incredibly fumbly this year as well. He still contributes, but is not playing with the intensity and running he should. Also, in no way whatsoever did I say Petty should come in.  Putting him back in the Saints would amount to mental cruelty, as he was pretty much the difference in our loss against that mob last year. Lewis I cared about before last week - but we showed last week that our defence can stand up with midfield leadership.

I think the Melkshake suffered a little in the first 3 weeks being used as a deep forward when that should be the change up, the pressure of being the goal kicker led to some ordinary efforts. He played for a free against Hurley, dropped the mark, then was hit high, held and shoved in the back and didn't get any of those 3 free kicks either! I've always said his defensive pressure is poor but I think his overall work rate and running is good to get the ball. Was nice to see him back to playing as a connecting half forward who can then take a spell deep rather than the other way around. 

He's always been the fake tough guy type who can fumble or go half hearted when he feels pressure from behind, at this stage that's probably who he is. If the mids and half backs can improve he'll keep getting better, especially if we can start to get the ball to him in space with angled kicks across half forward. A lot of teams would love a player like Melksham.

17 minutes ago, Supermercado said:

And watch bad teams get stomped in spectacular fashion like they used to in the VFA. Imagine if you took our 2012/13 teams and added even more open space on the ground - we'd have topped 186 and 190. The benefits when good teams play each other might be worth it, but there will be less than zero benefit for the people that watch their team lose by 25 goals each week.

As for full ground 6-6-6 that is just dead-set insanity and anyone who thinks it's a good idea should have to undergo a urine test before posting.

The transition period would surely be rough but the draft and free agency should keep competitive balance. Those older C+ guys who can do a job should spread around the comp.

Opening up the ground would be a factor (if it works) but most teams right now are fielding a pretty ordinary bottom 6. Young sides might not get away with playing so many kids but they don’t right now anyway. As soon as a team is really full of babies they lose by 10 goals.

4 hours ago, deanox said:

 

If you want to fix congestion around the ball you need to do the following:

- Strongly enforce holding the ball / illegal disposal. Don't let players gather/drop, gather/drop.

- Stop allowing a third player (ie a team mate of the player with the ball) to wrap up a tackler and keep the ball locked in. This stops holding the ball decions being paid. (It is just holding the man, so pay a free kick to the tackler)

These tactics are coached deliberately and are designed to ensure stoppages are win or draw only (not lose) by creating a secondary stoppage if you cannot win clean possession and dispose outside to a team mate.

 

There's an easy way, which is also the most logical way to remove congestion. 

- Remove 2 players from the ground and make it 16 a side with 3 or 4 interchange. 

I'd love to see a serious trial involving a state league competition and AFL preseason. Giving the good players the ball more often (even just 5% more) and with more space to work with surely results in more open skilled play.

1 hour ago, titan_uranus said:

The level of intensity and application Essendon showed against us was at least double what they showed against St Kilda.

That was little to do with St Kilda being better than us (which was also true), it was more about how Essendon attacked the contest or generally cared about the game. In the first half of their game, Essendon was non-existent. St Kilda were playing a below-VFL level side. 

They've beaten a developing young side in GC by 1 point, an Essendon side which played the worst half of footy anyone will play this year whilst struggling to hold them off, and they beat Hawthorn by a kick despite the Hawks having at least 6 injuries and only 2 on the bench for a half. 

If we're talking their 3-1 record alone, I'm not worried in the slightest.

It's not their W-L record which is the thing we should be worried about. St Kilda play a style of game which, when they're on, is our achilles heel. They'll use the space on the G, they'll bring pace, and if we leave too much space behind our press then they'll find it easier to score than they have in the opening four rounds.

This is not going to be easy for us, but St Kilda is not a good side.

I think Essendon certainly took a step forward between weeks 2 and 3 but a lot of that was because they went from playing the Saints to playing us.

We took a leap between weeks 3 and 4 not only because of fitness/coaching/effort but because we were playing the Swans instead of the quick bombers. 

So much of the confidence and run that Essendon had against us came from our lack of pressure. We showed in the second quarter that if we could stick with them a bit and hold them up they started making mistakes. The Saints deserve credit for doing that.

Again, not saying they are anything special, just in agreement they have traits to challenge us and I think the results against Essendon one week apart should be put down to more than just the Bombers getting it together.

3 minutes ago, phuket demon said:

Every time I watch him play, even non dee games, he is an absolute gun. I have no idea why he was dropped for the best part of a season, but he always seems to kill it. Whats the knock on him? 

Would be a massive upgrade on Oscar. Won't happen I know. 

Had a few really good games to start his career, then got a bit ahead of himself and was ad libbing too much for the Swans liking and butchering the ball.

Killed us last year when allowed to play as an intercepting half back but being stuck on Preuss deep and providing little intercepting or attacking drive largely took him out of the game. The Swans should've trusted young McCartin deep or flipped Ried to full back and McCartin forward and got Aliir up the ground, but Longmire isn't very creative.

If we get May and Lever fit we will be well served for intercepting tall defenders, we just need a 3rd guy who can do a shut down job.

12 minutes ago, At the break of Gawn said:

Saints are rubbish. Have beaten Gold Coast by 1pt, Essendon when they were a shambles, lost to Freo and beat the Hawks on one leg. 

If we bring the same defensive mindset and contested footy, we should beat them easily. 

So the bombers just magically went from a shambles to good in the week before they played us?

St Kilda aren't world beaters by any means but I share the OP's concern that they run hard and fast. They've also got a decent smattering of guys who will cause us trouble - Webster, Billings, Gresham, Bruce, Membrey and at least 1 or 2 of Lonie/Kent/Parker/Long.

The Swans are slow and sluggish from half back and in the midfield. That's why we were allowed to play our style. We'll need to lift it up a level again to make we get the game on our terms against a side with more pace and innovation.

48 minutes ago, Rodney (Balls) Grinter said:

A semi random thought regarding May and Lever - it kind of depends on how our key backs settle and build form over the next few weeks and it might be a bit old school, but personally I'd be in favor of bringing back both lever and May through the twos.  Let their bodies build back into a fully match fit state for the rigors of compeditive senior footy and let them build some confidence with the ball as well.

Steven May hasn't looked in great nick reading and finding the ball for his entire injury interupted preseason and Lever took at least half a dozen games to find form with us at the start of last season and he has missed practically an entire season of compeditive footy since then.

I want these guys back in the side as much as anyone, but I want them in and firing, not struggling to get back into the game.

Lever will come back through the 2's probably for at least 2 games.

May had some very good moments at training and wasn't too bad against Brisbane, I think even not at 100% he should be thrown in but given a bit of time to build fitness and form in terms of performance. In the Geelong game they tried to use him as the 3rd tall intercept player and something like that would be ideal - sit him on a resting ruckman and let him run off.

I think we should roll the dice of 1 tall defender against the Saints forward line. I'm a big Petty fan but last year against the Saints he was exploited for a lack of suitable match up and poor team defence and that has to be the focus again.

Lewis and Jetta in to the backline means 2 defenders have to make way or be reassigned. I think it might be time to try Salem up the ground, can always swap him with Fritsch or Lewis if it isn't working. 

T. Smith for Preuss if we want to maintain a bigger forward line, or we could go small. Unsure who gets the last couple of forward spots. I like Spargo because despite the slipped tackles and limited ball winning you can see he's a smart footballer who gets to the right spots, which then makes it easier for everyone else.

FB: Jetta  Hibberd  Hore
HB: Lewis  Frost   Fritsch
C: Salem   Oliver  Stretch
HF: Melksham T Mc  Petracca
FF: Hunt  Weid   T. Smith/small
Foll: Gawn  Harmes Brayshaw
Int: Viney, Jones, J. Wagner, C. Wagner/Spargo/Garlett/Lockhart

A very difficult selection. Hard to balance the desire to reward the guys who did the job with the reality that last nights side is far from perfect.

Jetta straight back in if he's fit. Which defender makes way? J Wags?Oscar?  Hore? Does Hibberd come under big scrutiny? 

Does Lewis back mean Fritsch moves to a wing, maybe play C Wagner at half forward/mid and cover the likely absence of Preuss. 

Or do we bring in another taller target to keep the 3 tall structure? T Smith or Keilty?

The Weid absolutely crunched the Swans 2 most dangerous players - Papley and Heeney - in big tackles. Had a couple of really nice handballs on both sides of the body and nailed his kicks, including a vital goal.

Not high possessions but an oddly valuable game. A bit of a reminder that just as you sour on him after 3 weeks he bobs up with some really good stuff. 

I really want to see him play some half back or even midfield just to test him in some different roles at times because he does the occasional really good thing at ground level.

35 minutes ago, Diamond_Jim said:

Gawn... needs a gameplan

seriously... how do you dominate in the ruck but get beaten in the midfield

Goodwin... Lift your gameplan

Did you watch the second half?

I've always liked Josh, thought he reads the play well, good in the air and can kick it nicely. Just is a bit slow for a back flanker and he went through big patches where he wouldn't stick tackles or attack the ball like he did in his first season. He's limited but it's nice to see him doing a job the last two weeks.

Actually not as sold on Corey. I think he does fumble and panic too much for even a depth player and he should be a better tackler given he's got decent pace. I was hoping for depth player with a little upside to build on. That said, worked some hard tonight and is still young and inexperienced, he might start to smooth the rough edges.

Along with Hore, Stretch and Frost the Wagners are mature depth players who did their role when supported by experienced players leading the way. Was nice to see.

8 minutes ago, FireInTheBelly said:

OMac has concussion. So how did that happen?

Possibly on this? Doesn't really look like his head hit the ground but maybe it did?

I hope Oscar is ok but I think it showed we're a better team without him. 
 

2 ordinary preseason games, a bad debut and possibly an average VFL game (I didn't see it so I can't comment). Wasn't exactly expecting much and he was excellent. The intercept mark where he cut across a forward was very important. Leapt at the ball and punched decisively. Kicking was still a bit haphazard and he rushed some disposals but it was a huge leap forward.

Great first quarter with 2 great goals, not sure how often he'll reproduce them. Hard to judge him after the shoulder knock though.

He did free up Weid, T Mc, Petracca and Melk all to play better than they had been.

But how many coaches will allow Preuss just to sit forward and occupy an intercept defender like Aliir? It took Alliir 3/4's until he started running off Preuss and hurting him the other way.

Keen to see him play again, but I'd like it to be with a fully healthy shoulder. If he's not right then I'd probably look at either Keilty or T Smith, we can't afford to carry him if he isn't plucking some marks and able to really dominate in the ruck.

He's only just turned 31. I remember a few years ago in the early rounds I thought Kade Simpson and Jarryd McVeigh were both absolutely shot. Both are 34 now.

He mostly looks terrible right now but there's still time for Jones to adapt and turn it around.

I reckon he looks very stiff in the back and isn't bending or turning anywhere near like he can even for his age and games played. He might just warm in to the season with a bit of match fitness and maybe the back loosens up.

He showed some heart tonight and did the job required. Well and truly earnt his spot and hopefully he's on the upswing.