DeeSpencer

7 hours ago, BangBnagBang said:

In which way is the game going past him??

Not everyone is gong to play like Viney in regard to attack on the ball. You need all types. Fritch is the best fwd 50 target in the AFL post bye according to champion. Would wanna be a good pick to let a 40 goal forward go, they are hard to find

Our game plan was to bomb it to congestion at half forward then burst out of that and hit Fritsch inside 50. That's where we've changed but I also think the league has changed too. Teams will keep a lot of deep defenders now. You have to move the ball faster and wider to get out to space across half forward then have more guys inside 50 rather than a 1 out option so often.

A fair counter is Jamie Elliott was dominating in a Fritsch style role for a lot of the year so maybe it's not over for that kind of player but Elliott is also more well rounded.

Of course he won't be Viney. But for a lot of this season (and last) Fritsch has been close to uncompetitive. Hopefully that's changed now.

Anyway, mid year I'd have sold him for pick 40, now I'd want something top 25 and a Jason Taylor level of belief that it's a pick they can find someone with. I'd certainly be open to keeping him too.

Excellent. Now take note of who Graham Wright is lining up as coach in waiting at Carlton and nab one of them as the senior coach and away we go

16 hours ago, kurtneverdied said:

There are 3 players we could have traded for heaps. Trac, Oliver and Petty and now we would be lucky to get a first rounder from all 3.

No one made a serious offer for Clarry at the end of 2023. The best offer from Geelong last year was just about a joke.

No one made a serious offer for Tracc last year, he’d have forced a trade if one was remotely available.

The only one of those who the club was actually offered a deal for was Petty for a couple of late firsts in the 2022 draft with no doubt a second or more going back the other way. Easy to say now we should’ve done that but that undervalues how much good footy at both ends of the ground Petty should have left. Petty for Darcy Wilson or James Leake and a pick swap isn’t the home run some think it is.

I’d have put Fritsch on the table last year, the writing was well and truly on the wall, but at the same time we’d lost AnB and we need guys in the forward line who aren’t kids or Melksham.

The bigger issue with our list management is handing on long mega deals that have seemingly bounced up with the cap. We signed Clarry super early with a mega deal, which given he’d never missed a game and never played poorly was perhaps fine (even if he was never the perfect citizen off field). But what was reported as a 1M deal at signing seems to now include years peaking at 1.7 after the cap rises. If he was on a reasonable wage we’d be able to eat a bunch of it and get a pick for him.

3 hours ago, Red But Mostly Blue said:

Fritsch being named here as one to let go?? WHY?

Because the game is going past him so it's better to cash out now rather than hold on. Depending on the offer.

For most of the season (and honestly for about 3 year now) Bayley has jogged around in second gear. It's not that he doesn't tackle enough it's that he sits and watches play go by until he makes a defensive effort and then invariable it's too little too late. The number of sloppy too high free kicks he gives away is abysmal.

Plus the terrible attempts at winning a contested ball on the deck and over reliance on the get the ball out the back efforts at contested marking rather than playing in front and being willing to wear a defender crashing in to you.

Similarly he's been tried up the ground and for such a skilled player his ball use and decision making are dreadful. He looks like a local football when up the ground.

Now the last 6 weeks or so the penny has appeared to drop a little. He's putting in more effort at the contest and defensively as well as finding the ball consistently. But we've also played a very soft draw. I'd probably still have a draft pick in mind at which point I'd be willing to let him go. He's far from untouchable. But for now anyway he's not almost free to a good home as he would've been mid year.

2 hours ago, GawnOfTheDead said:

Yeh I get that, if you watch the video you’ll see what I mean. He’s talking like he won’t even be at the club in any capacity.

In the press conference he gave a similar comment about needing to leave the MFC to further his career at some stage but also suggesting he'd be glad to stay.

My guess is he's contracted for at least next year. I doubt he would've taken on the challenge of forwards coach without some contract security.

If the new coach gives him permission to leave and he can find a job without relocating his family he probably takes that opportunity. Backline coach at Ess/Rich/Carl etc you name it.

If the new guy wants him to stay and holds him to his contract then he stays for at least the 1 year more.

3 hours ago, Demons11 said:

Who do you expect to be on there? It’s the President, CEO and head of footy. Would you like the water boy and physio to be on the selection panel. The new CEO would not have been hired if he didn’t know anything about football. Just because he didn’t play or coach, doesn’t mean he doesn’t know anything

He’s an Essendon supporter on the RV board, I’ll be pleasantly surprised if he knew the earth was round yet alone anything about football.

(Of course, he and the head of footy - if backed and not sacked - both belong on the search committee, along with outside football knowledge please)

I can hardly trust Caro but Steve Smith has to take on the Presidency before we appoint a coach, anything else is just nonsense.

The Board elect a President.

They hire a CEO.

Together with input of a subcommittee with a Footy Director/head of footy etc they hire a coach.

You can’t have an interim President making moves only to hand over to the incoming President.

1 hour ago, adonski said:

Does anyone think our list is bad? (Genuine question)

I think it's significantly better than what almost all new coaches inherit

It’s far from terrible but the lack of leaders and quality players in their mid 20’s makes me think we’d be smarter to go backwards to go forwards than push hard the other way.

There’s a possibility where we transition to new/younger talls as required and Tracc and Oliver get back to near their best but it’s unlikely.

We’ve also got to nail recruiting a few ready made players and with our track record since the flag that seems hard to believe in.

In simple terms just get more comfortable playing in space. Attacking and defending.

We’ve come along way already but there were some glaring moments against the dogs in the first half and by the end of the game Windsor did a hammy, Disco went off with cramp.

That’s tied in to transitioning our midfield but it has to happen even if we stick with our current guys.

FB: May, McDonald?, Adams

CHB: Petty, Disco, Derksen?, Lever?

Int: Disco, Lever?, Howes/Rivers

FF: Melksham?, Kentfield, Jeffo

CHF: Mihocek?, Petty, Jeffo

Ruck/Fwd: JVR, AJ

Small ball: Fritsch, McAdam, Tracc

I’m not sure 6 talls fits the modern game unless they can run and have skills.

Disco as a much better mover than Lever provides some of that but he needs to improve his ball use.

Up forward Jeffo is the interesting one because he’s got untapped speed, agility and skills

Collingwood often park Darcy Cameron as a 3rd key defender and we’ve done that with Gawn at times when we’ve played 2 key backs.

Langford and Culley are 2 options for marking targets around the ground too. I like seeing Harvey have a go at full forward in 4th quarters the last 2 weeks.

29 minutes ago, Greg Schneider said:

19 out of the last 20 flags have been won by first time coaches

It’s a compelling stat but I also don’t think correlation = causation.

So few coaches get a second chance.

When they do it’s often Mick at Carlton, Eade at the Suns, Clarko at North where they’re in awful situations just trying to tread water to keep their job. Even if they weren’t good (or good so far for Clarko).

And some of the great premiership coaches are done after their stint. Lethal at Brisbane, Bomber at Geelong, Sheeds! Roosy as a serious long term coach. If those guys took jobs in their prime (and Lethal at Brisbane counts like that) they could’ve succeeded.

13 minutes ago, The Jackson FIX said:

Who is to say they haven’t had a first round of discussions but we just don’t know about them?

I understand some don’t trust the club and want full transparency BUT it is naive to think that things like discussions/interviews aren’t happening (or have happened a long time ago) behind closed doors

You can have discussions all you like but the point is to assemble the best panel and listen to what a range of best candidates have to say. There's no way that's happened behind closed doors, not with how much the AFL (and MFC) leaks.

I'm not saying we have to subject a Buckley/Simpson/Horse to a full scale interview process, we know what those guys are.

But if you're not sitting down with a bunch of the brightest assistant coaches you're missing out on a whole heap of information that can be useful not just for finding the best coach.

I'm still not sold that he's a long term player, but it was a performance against a far better opposition that suggests he will get another 1 year deal. The tackling and strength at the contest were both steps forward that he didn't show a lot against the Eagles (honestly didn't need to).

27 minutes ago, The Jackson FIX said:

The ‘show me the process’ crew don’t seem to understand that it is near impossible to get an quality experienced coach to get involved in any public process, look at Ross Lyon with Carlton.

Being a declared starter in a public process (where they are not guaranteed the gig) is too risky to their reputation, they look out of touch if they fail.

I reckon Horse and Simmo have interest in coaching next year but going with the ‘I’m happy doing what I’m doing’ line to preserve their reputations whilst they wait for a phone call in the future.

I'd feel exactly the same with appointing Buckley as Ross Lyon. If your ego is too big for at least a first round of interviews then you probably aren't the man for the job. I doubt Carlton or anyone else are all that worried about missing out on Ross le Boss. Do the interviews, claim family reasons to drop out if it's not going that way.

Everyone thought Terry Wallace was a lock to Hawthorn in 2004. They went through the process and Al Clarkson blew them away. 4 flags.

6 minutes ago, Norm Smith's Curse said:

I often read this and wonder how that could be true given he got them to a premiership and then a prelim in the later years of his time there.

4, 6, 11, 11 (1 less win), 12, 13, Longmuir joints, 3 (loss granny), 4 (lost prelim), 8, sacked as team we on to finish 17th

Adrian Hickmott is doing an incredible job with Hawthorn’s forwards.

Gunston - ancient

Watson - tiny

Ginnivan - part human/part troll

Lewis - chronically injured

Chol - 2 phones

Dear - a teenager

He’d be a fantastic choice on merit rather than picking Buckley on reputation.

We’re dumb, but we can’t possibly be appointing Nath Buckley without running a proper process levels of dumb can we?

Buckley is an inferior version of Goodwin except rather than a media witch hunt to get him he’s got media fawning all over him.

Bucks coached for 10 seasons and 9 out of 10 they went backwards. The only year they improved was the they poached Justin Longmuir to run a great defensive system.

3 minutes ago, 48 Year Now said:

I think Kolts going to be a good solid player but wouldnt reward him yet.

Windsor out.

We only need replace the sub.

Need a runner in tho. Can’t have May for Windsor.

We could leave Sparrow in the starting 22, or drop him entirely but I think sub is a fair compromise. I don’t want to disrupt Casey too much either, those guys are having a good crack at finals.

Lindsay in not Kolt is an option too, but I’d like to see Kolt play a little defensive mid.

May for Adams

Kolt for Windsor

Howes back, Bowey forward, Sparrow sub.

It’s not harsh to drop Adams. He’s not ready. You can tell at Casey he’s not ready. He loses concentration and doesn’t seek out the ball. It’s good he got a taste and there were some flashes but he has to take that back to vfl and dominate.

20 hours ago, Pates said:

Honestly to me us extending Viney, May, and even Gawn for as long as we have is worse than giving Laurie an extra year. Unlikely he's on big coin from an AFL perspective.

Gawn has barely slowed down and is a legend, no issues with his deal. May still a very good player, been better this year than last, just the up ground defending has been awful at times. If we want to trade him we still can, I’d rather operate from the position of leverage with the deal.

Viney deal was moronic at the time. It was a lame attempt at PR that achieved nothing. I’d be all for Jack getting 2 more years at a fair price (1 he deserves and 1 for legacy), instead he’s signed up for 3 more and I’m willing to bet its overs money.

Really starting to believe Luker is our most talented key forward, just a matter of getting the mind and body to afl level. Clean skills, clunking hands, times his leads and jumps.

Jeffo might be second most talented too and he’s got tricks that can combine well with Luker too.

I’d want a coach that really believes in these 2 if they do the work building their bodies to afl level.

6 hours ago, Left Foot Snap said:

Gerard Healy has been very strong earlier in the year on JVR being an excellent KPD for the future.

The problem is his turning circle, slow skills/decision making and lack of leap would hurt him down back as much as they do forward.

But to play off a forward and crash through packs he’d have some value and he’d find some easier marks.

He reminds me of Caminiti at the Saints. Who’s been just fine as a key back, but probably depth in a good side.

The big question is now he’s finished biking up if there’s more mobility and speed. Lumps just don’t cut it at afl level unless you’re Hawkins level lump

1 hour ago, Dee*ceiving said:

I legitimately feel like an untried assistant isn't an option for us considering the pounding we've copped from headquarters, the media and even Parliament over the last several years (noting a lot of that was driven by own goals).

Pretty much all of that was driven by a certain HS journalist and his sources and we all know who they are.

Now that they’ve got their main targets we’ll go back under the radar.

There will be some tough calls on veteran players but nothing an experienced assistant can’t handle if the club gets back to supporting a coach properly which we did for most of Goodwin’s time

3 minutes ago, Turner said:

if Laurie is determined to play afl games beyond this year, and to be honest this should have been a conversation 12-24 months ago, he should turn around to the coaches and say make me your back pocket, i will tackle, i will lockdown and i will stop my man kicking goals

I'm 179cm, one paced, no aerial game but chuck me in the back pocket and I'll succeed purely on the vibes?

What does he say to the coaches when he's had half a dozen goals kicked on him at hafl time?

43 minutes ago, Howard_Grimes said:

But if we were on par with another club in those areas and it came down to club training ground location and level of facility, nobody is choosing us.

So of course it's a massive factor.

I can't believe there are still supporters that think it's a non-factor.

It's hilarious.

It's a minor factor. Every club has pros and cons.

Carlton are likely to be the only other side in the coaching market. They have better facilities with less travel (although getting from the inner South East where more coaches live to Princes Park every day is a real pain). But they also have 20+ years of incompetence and fire coaches every 3 years.