Akum

Sorry, but you're kidding yourself. Mainly because other clubs would know Watts well enough anyway and Roos isn't going to change any of that. But also because it ignores Roos's actual words, which were aimed at Goodwin not at other clubs. And don't ignore what Roos actually said, it's really good advice, which I hope Goodwin heeds.

OK, a question. Which of our current coaches do you think is most highly rated by the football industry as a whole? I really hope he's happy with the situation and I really hope he stays.

And if it's not true, or highly exaggerated? They're not first-hand accounts, by the way. Apart from the cardinal sin of chatting to fans at preseason training. Again, Watts is no longer a Melbourne player. I don't know what's achieved by continuing to demonise him now. My fear is that If our senior coaches agree with most of this board that Watts leaving will only have good results, then they're blind to some important deficiencies that will need to be corrected if we're going to improve next year, and that we're now more deficient in without Watts. For example, hitting a target inside 50. We're one of the worst sides at that overall, despite Watts being one of the best in the comp. That's not a situation that would suggest moving up the ladder. It's not as if we haven't been at the threshold before and ended up back in the compost heap.

Lovely twist of the knife in your last sentence. Probably not necessary. Don't think it's clear at all that "everyone has had enough". All we know so far is that the coaches don't want him. And "coaches", as another poster said, is mainly Goodwin & Macca "and that's good enough for me". However the other coaches feel, they'll have to toe the line anyway. It may be that Roos was his only defender in the previous coaching groups, and now that Roos is out of the picture, Watts is fair game. Seemed to catch Roos by surprise though - especially that Watts is being painted as a negative influence. And I'm quite prepared to believe that Viney snr wants him out, so that's 3 very powerful guys in the FD. No idea whether the rest of the FD agree, but again, they'll have to toe the line. As will the team leaders such as Jones, whatever he really thinks about it. Tyson (who of course isn't a team leader, and may not have been told too much about toeing the line) came close to saying, "I have no idea what he's done to warrant kicking him out, must be more to it that I'm not aware of. I hope he'll stay." Doesn't sound like a unanimous endorsement from the playing group ... yet (it may still come). They'll all have to toe the line eventually though. And so far we have no idea what the executive, the marketing dept, the membership dept, the corporate relations dept all think about it. They stand to lose a bit by him going too, and would be right on top of whether or not he's a bad influence around the club. In the end, they'll have to go with the decision made by their two senior coaches and the FD head. Of course, I could be wrong and the whole club might have just been waiting for half an excuse to kick him out. Or maybe they don't care either way. GNF and others, do you have any mail about how others around the club feel about it? Are they as enthusiastic about MFC without Watts as the "nice guys finish last" brigade here?

Except that every other club is fully aware that if it's gone this far, we're not going to fight hard to keep him. So they're going to bid much lower than they'd normally give up, and then find our FD's point of resistance. I'd say could be as low as late 2nd or early third. And the club that gets him will be scratching it's head over why he was so badly thought of at Melbourne.

And it is crystal clear that Watts is being kicked out of the team. We haven't actually heard how the club feels about it, but the coaches want him gone. He would only be talking to other clubs if the coach told him, "There's no place for you here next year". If the coach had given him the option of staying, he wouldn't be talking to other clubs.

Watts generally stands up in big games. He's been prominent in most if not all of our big wins, especially the ones in our down years. Watts is gone, but don't make stuff up. Building a list, you need intensity players and you need skill players. One of the reasons the Tiges were able to sustain their pressure on GF was that they were able to hurt the Crows with their skill going the other way. If they'd had a string of skill errors or bad turnovers, or some bad misses in front of goal, would have made it very hard to sustain that pressure. It's ridiculous to say that if you have intensity, you can do without skill. If we keep turning it over because we neglect skills, you can enjoy seeing 22 men applying manic pressure for no result. And again, for those of you who still haven't heard what I've said in a number of posts: I'm NOT arguing for Watts to stay. I'm arguing that we have to replace his skills, and improve the skills right across the team (like Tiges have done this year, so that their pressure actually counts for something), or we're going nowhere.

The problem is, it sure reads like hate & venom rather than disappointment.

Obviously agree with everything you say in this post. I just get the feeling Goodwin wants him gone - not for "absolutely anything", but probably wouldn't blink at a late second rounder for example, which is well below his value. Or a 4-pick upgrade.

Fair few of my mates who support other clubs seem to think that he will do better anywhere else than Melbourne.

They got their midfield right by bringing in Caddy & Prestia, 2 tough inside mids to do the 'extraction', for want of a better word. This allowed Dusty & Cotchin to play where they're much more dangerous - in taking the ball away from clearances, and being link men through the corridor. They worked out their defence, got the right mix of players in the right positions, and were able to play them together for just about the whole season. They had very few injuries or suspensions. They developed into a really tight unit. And they played one on one, not zone, for maximum pressure. Didn't they hit upon the small forwards by accident when 2 of their 3 tall forwards got injured in the same game? They discovered that was the way to create forward pressure. They also do smart things like kick into space, and run the ball in waves, rather than kick, through the corridor. And they mix up their forward thrusts - they aren't predictable. Adelaide were very predictable. Hardwick clearly sat himself down and had a real think about how to build the side. Yes, they were lucky with the draw and with injuries. But a lot of the credit has to go to Hardwick. And Neil Balme is the best of the best as footy manager.

Well, the problem is that what Watts brought to the team is what we're worst at, our deficiencies: better disposal, better decision-making, better ball movement, better entries i50, less turnovers and so on. These are the areas we need to improve in most, and Watts, who was our best player in these areas, is now gone. It's OK if you think his deficiencies outweighed his benefits. There are a range of opinions about this - it's impossible to tell at this stage which is right, but they'e all legitimate. But if the coaches are blind to what he brought, and don't take steps to improve in those areas - if all they think we need to do is improve our intensity and we don't have to worry about our skills - we aren't going to get better. Watts is now no longer one of our players. I'm more concerned about us getting better. It concerns me, for example, that some of our core players that we rely upon most haven't improved their disposal for 2 or 3 years. If they don't improve again over this preseason, there's a risk we could get even worse. Pro-Watts or anti-Watts is no longer the point - it stopped being the point about 2 weeks ago. The point from now on is: how are we going to get better (post-Watts)?

So there's no problem here? We've cut out the cancer and now we'll be much better off without Watts undermining everything and contributing nothing to the team? I don't care that Watts is gone. I just hope our coaches aren't as blind to what we've lost - and more importantly, by what we'll need to replace - by dumping Watts, as a lot of posters are. What I've seen and heard so far from them doesn't fill me with confidence.

Again, if Watts was given the option to stay, no matter how much of a "rocket" he got, he would not be talking to other clubs. So we won't have Watts ned year, but we will have Goody. You guys are making Goody sound like Neeld - the type of coach who loves to tear his players down, not to boost them up. Because you're applauding that he's torn Watts down. Some of us aren't so convinced that that's the way to get the best performances out of a group of young men.

You're right about one thing - if we're going to continue to be predictable and attack by bombing it onto our tall forwards heads and expecting them to contest it against 2 or 3 opponents, then we don't need Watts. We probably don't need Hogan either - he's one of the best contested marks in the comp one-on-one, but against 2 or 3 opponents he's as useless as anyone else. We'd be better to train a 210cm athletic gorilla and get him to stand 30m out from goal.

See, I don't mind people saying they're right to get rid of Watts. But when you just make stuff up ... He's not "clearly" a poor trainer. Watts is one of our best for pressure acts - he's 5th or 6th on the list. He's not good at tackling but averages 2.6 tackles a game, which is very good in comparison to those who play a similar type of game. But he was never on the list to be a tackling machine - we've got others who can do that. Just like we never drafted Viney for his elite foot skills - we have (or had) other players for that. He's not a good pack mark, but we didn't get him for that either. His best marks are on the leads. A number of forwards have made great cares abut getting most of their goals on leads - Peter McKenna & Bernie Quinlan come to mind. But they had teammates who could hit them lace out. Jack's had teammates who pass it to him from 30m and miss him by 5m in any direction. No one player is "the difference" between winning or losing a premiership. If today shows us anything, is that premierships are won by great teams, not individuals. But Watts could certainly make a worthwhile contribution, if his team (it won't be us any more) ever used him right.

Watts is gone. Get over it, to me there's no point arguing about a former player. I'm more concerned that we replace the attributes he brings, because they're really important. If our coaches really do agree with the posters that he brings absolutely nothing (or less - he's negative value) to the team's collective effort, then in my view we've got big problems. And next year is going to be very frustrating as we fight harder than anyone to win possession, our contested ball numbers are best in the comp, but we just keep turning it over again and again. Does that fall on deaf ears? Do you seriously think we'll be better without what Watts brings?

In other words: I really have no idea what Watts brings to this team. Doesn't matter anyway; he's gone. If, as Goody said, they'd given him "honest" feedback & left it up to him whether he stays or not, then he'd stay. The only reason he'd be talking to other clubs is if the coaches don't want him. And if the coaches want him, it means they don't think he brings anything to the team either. So they're not going to ask much for him and the other clubs know Jack's situation over the years well enough that they're fully aware of that. It could be as low as late second or early third. So brace yourselves for it.

Pyke's effort was at east as bad. Comprehensively outcoached and didn't fire a shot.

I agree. But fact is he's gone.Goody wants him gone. And if the coach doesn't want him, he's unlikely to want to change.

I really think Lever is one of a handful of Crows who can hold his head up.

Agree, Dusty was good but he was 3rd or 4th best behind Houli, Lambert and perhaps even with Prestia.

Adelaide from 1/4 time on played stupid. Then kept playing stupid. Then played stupid some more.

Nup, these are worst. We saw it all at Adelaide Oval against us.

Tiges won't get more favourable umpiring for another century. May as well make the most of it.