Little Goffy

The real price is what the Eagles got - Kennedy, Masten, Notte - give it 3-5 years.

Well, now we get into economic semantics!

Kennedy, Masten and Notte are what Eagles got for Judd.

Pick 3, 22 and Kennedy we're the price that Carlton paid for him.

Pick 4, 14 (or a player, eg Petterd) and 21 would have been the price we would have had to pay for him.

But it's a fair call that if we get more out of Morton, Grimes and Maric combined than Carlton get out of Judd, then we've come out winners in the end!

I'd argue that the extra funds off the field will be balanced by the on-field tension as the salary cap constricts around the futures of Carlton's young guns.

Also, if the Golden Groin doesn't hold up, or any other serious injury leaves Judd omitted or unale to play at full capacity, then the Judd trade will have done almost as much damage to Carlton as the salary cap breaches.

And if, by some cosmic intervention, the arrivial of Judd doesn't suddenly make everyone on Carlton's list 20% faster, 20% fitter, 20% more skilled and 100% better at working as a team, then they'll still be rooted anyway.

It's true, there is simply no need for Sampi in our list- we have creative smalls loaded in now, he'd be a replacement for Shannon Motlop, and thats all.

I'd be looking at Bellchambers in the PSD to make sure of him - supposed to be a top-rate tap ruckman who hasn't yet learnt to work effectively around the ground. Good for Sandy, and the general play element can be developed, while the 'art' of ruckwork can be hard to build if there isn't the original talent. (IMHO)

A couple of tall defender rookies sounds good to me.

Actually, I think it'll be some veterans who step up.

We'll see good growth and development from the young squad, and that will make for an exciting accumulation as players like Jones, Mclean and Bate put in consistent great games.

But I honestly think we'll see something special from Neitz, Robertson, Bruce and Green in 08.

I've said in another thread that Neitz returning to fitness would be a bankable 50+ goals, he remains a star full forward, Robertson really should be aiming to pass 50 as well, he's being underperforming these last two years and we know it, he knows it, and the coach knows it.

Bruce and Green will play better with Johnstone gone. They will have physical and psychological space that used to be monopolised by Johnstone. They are now our top line veteran midfielders, we know it, they know it, the coach knows it.

We also all know that they can deliver, despite frustrationsin the past.

These four stand up, the kids get to play with confidence in the team, everything starts to tick along beautifully.

Certainly, if we're going to be a top-tier side as soon as next year, the core veterans have to deliver.

Otherwise, well, I guess we look to 09-10 as the young guns we've got start to peak in a big way.

B: Garland Frawley Bell

HB: Bartram Rivers Wheatley

C: Bruce Sylvia Petterd

HF: Green Bate Morton

F: Davey Newton Maric

Foll: ????? Mclean Jones

Inter: Grimes, Moloney, P.Johnson, Dunn

Apologies to Whelan, Robertson, McDonald and Carroll who all may still be going strong then, but in the spirit of the thread they've been omitted. Hell, Neitz and Yze might still be going.

On this card, Sylvia has had a few consecutive full preseasons and is a midfield monster.

P.Johnson is in as a back-up ruck and 'KP utility', almost like Holland is now.

I've got no frickin idea who our number one ruck is. Jamar or Meesen? Some brilliant Noob we get in next years draft at pick 16?

Bellchambers, after picking him up in this years PS or Rookie Draft?

Miller is touch and go whether he'll come good. We'll know if he'll be around in 2010 within the first half of 08, I think.

Obviously Garland is a question mark, maybe it'll be McNamara, maybe someone we rookie this year, maybe even Warnock will be our third tall defender.

I can easily see our forward line being Dunn instead of Green and thus becoming one of the youngest forward lines combinations ever seen, with Davey the old man at 27, the rest between 24 and 20!

Bate / Morton / Dunn could prove to be an impossible HF line to match up on.

Chris Kangars – Geelong Falcons, VIC, 193.1cm, 84.9kg, DOB 1/8/89

David Gourdis – Subiaco, WA, 192.4cm, 88.9kg, DOB 14/3/89

Didn't both of these guys miss out completely in the national draft?

I'm guessing we'll take a closer look in the next few weeks and see if they can be accomodated in our currently empty rookie list, or with the pre-season draft.

Interesting times, a lot of rookie potential still around, particularly athletes yet to transform into footballers.

More fun for the recruiting managers.

The ultira-bright red will standout from a distance, and also will be visible in background/crowd shots during games, offsetting what will probably remain a predominately blue colour range.

Here's a bizarre little study to quote -

Olympic Tae-kwon-do competitors are assigned, randomly, either red or blue gear for each fight. Over a sample of many hundreds of fights, a statistical prevalence of red winning was established, approaching 55%.

With all other things being equal, this represents a real advantage. We have to go with more red!

At the risk of being howled down and not trying to second guess our recruiters, I am a little disappointed we haven't taken a KPP, especially a defender.

Just McNamara at 66. I was definately surprised that we didn't grab Rance when available at 14, or Pears at 21. McNamara looks like great grab for 66.

Now for a super-long post, and then I'm off to watch today's 'other event'.

Grimes and Cheney will be competing in what is now a very crowded list of promising midfielders and small defenders, including Whelan, Moloney and Bartram all returning from injury. Several players in this category will be spending most of the year at Sandringham, and there should be pressure on players to keep their senior spots. GOOD! This is a particularly handy circumstance should McDonald retire soon or either of Moloney and Whelan fail to return from persistent injury troubles.

McNamara is the only addition to our tall defenders. However, Rivers, Frawley and Garland are all quite young, Carroll is mid-aged and while Holland is older he is not generally seen as a critical component so much as honest depth. What we need in defense isn't additional back-up or succession planning but the addition of a STAR. If that wasn't to be found in CACs eyes this draft, so be it. Better a smart speculation than another Molan.

I see Maric as the succession plan for Yze's present role in the forward pocket, appropriate given that Yze's other common role at HBF has been loaded up with prospects. It's been noted that despite his small size he can provide a leading target (like Hawthorn's Williams) as well as creating scoring opportunities from general play (so better than williams)

Thank Jeebus that Morton is a flexible player as well as being known for him awesomeness. Whether he eventually claims a CHF/wing role in tandem with Bate, or asserts a presence from the midfield that allows mature players like Green and Bruce to play further forward as they get older, I think his contribution will actually help our forward options, even though he's not strictly a KPP. Remember that Mebourne now has a wide slection of highly mobile 190-193cm talls available for forward duty - Newton, Dunn, Bate, Morton, and even Bruce (he did kick seven against Carlton once, gotta love that).

Replace Johnstone?

This guy sounds like Johnstone and Bate rolled into one.

Happy happy happy, joy joy joy.

small defender.

welcome to the club kyle!!

Still no KPP, these small guys must be pretty good to get in ahead of apparent need!

Always a bright side

Little surprised there's no KPP in there, especially with Rance having been available at 14 at Pears available at 21.

Still, I guess that means they got the players they wanted rather than the leftovers, if the choices were rated higher than those options.

Excited about Maric now that I've heard he has an 80% goal kicking accuracy - sheesh!

Well, I've gone with Rance over Rioli for 14, so I'll take Vesprezidente at 21.

Potato Pears if it's Rioli at 14.

Arrrggghhh...

It's Rance or Rioli, surely our luck will be good enough for one to slip?

I'll say...

Rance

Morton Morton Morton, everybody loves Morton....

I'll just throw my name on the pile.

they are a lot better than virus riddled machines that PC's are.

Pcs have virus problems because billions of people are using them every day, constantly transferring information.

Macs are, admittedly, much better insulated from such issues.

If the Kangas refuse to make the move North, will the AFL veto any further deals where they sell games up there, and move the deal to another club?

An interesting and potentially ugly scene there. Even with the 'soft-loan' arrangement North would still be in deep trouble without the income from the sold games.

The AFL would rightly much prefer games which were a possible prelude to relocation than mere 'exhibition matches' from clubs that have no deeper connection with the target market and fans.

111645 Rhys Palmer, WA, 13 February 1989, Small Midfielder, 181.4cm, 79.8kg.

He was the leading possession winner at the 2007 NAB AFL U18 Championships averaging 32 per match and was named the undefeated Western Australian teams Most Valuable Player and also earned All Australian Honours. Demonstrated elite endurance at the 2007 NAB AFL Draft Camp at the AIS in Canberra where he ranked fifth overall in the beep test (14.8) and second in the 3km time trial (10min 25sec).

111942 Tayte Pears, WA, 24 March 1990, Tall Defender, 190.1cm, 91.8kg.

Composed and disciplined tall defender who is renowned for his good decision making and excellent use of the ball. Recorded an outstanding 2.92 seconds for the 20m sprint – placing him in the top 10% of players at the 2007 NAB AFL Draft Camp.

113904 Alex Rance, WA, 9 October 1989, Tall Defender, 192.3cm, 87.6kg.

Strong, hard running tall defender noted for his dash off the backline. His father Murray played 97 matches with the Western Bulldogs and West Coast between 1986-1990. Alex was a leading player for rebound 50’s with Western Australia and averaged 17 possessions throughout the 2007 NAB AFL U18 Championships earning All Australian Honours.

There they are. One after the other on the offical list.

I see Palmer 4, Rance 14, Pears 21.

I'm sorry guys, but we have an omen here. Time to pack up the discussion and start picking out their jumper numbers and nicknames.

And maybe learn to say nice things about Western Australia. But not too nice.

I want Palmer, I do, I rate him highly.

...

For some reason, and it isn't the hair, when I see him he reminds me of woey.

Great effort with some skill to match, only I'll take it further, his skills are better than Woeys, so woey effort with more skill. Looks great to me.

Played at East Fremantle, yes? Isn't that where Woey played out his days before helping out as some kind of assistant coach?

Mmmm.... Woey with skills.

Well, that settles it, it's Palmer, Morton or Masten

Unless Cotchin slips to 4...

Or we decide to make sure of Henderson or Rance

Or CAC banks on Cyril Rioli

Or puts his money on McEvoy delivering in the dual-role

Oh Jeebus Christos, and this is just the first pick.

Now... the first four named, I think we're all ok with having them on board at pick 4. Preferences, each to their own and all that, but we wont be complaining and will love them dearly (even if they turn out like Trapper)

The rest we'd love to pick up but I think we all want to go for the finesse and hope to land one of them at 14, right?

Ok, can I make a request? Could someone start a new thread with some kind of a 'map' of our draft -

Pick 4 and the likely players.

Outsiders for pick 4 that might slide to 14, plus other good options at 14.

And possible sliders who we'd love to see at 21.

Give Height/Weight and usual role/type.

And give each one something like the three word analysis people do here after games?

Would earn whoever did it massive Brownie points.

Maybe CAC would like to come on, you know, in all that spare time he's got.

This stuff about the Ferals and the like being passionate and Melbourne supporters being effete snow loving theatregoers is one of footy's great myths.

In March 2007 Collingwood had 688,000 supporters nationally (source: Roy Morgan). For season 2006 they had 38,038 paid up members(source: AFL), a conversion of supporters to members of 5.5%.

Melbourne had 228,000 supporters and 24,689 members, a conversion of 10.8%. A further 16,000 known Melbourne supporters are paid up members of the MCC but not the MFC. If you include these in Melbourne's membership numbers then the conversion is 17.8%.

The facts are that Melbourne supporters are 2-3 times more likely to support their Club by taking out a membership or attending games than Collingwood supporters.

That's a golden post right there.

If there's one thing I'm sick of in football, it's people who say 'yes, I follow AFL, I'm a Collingwood supporter' but have never been to a frickin game.

That, and the absurdly imbalanced broadcast arrangements for Victorian Clubs.

Here's a table I threw together based on the fixture, this should be enough to silence anything but pathetic excuses from Collingwood fans.

Club Free 2 Air Fri Ngt Sat Ngt Sunday

Collingwood 19 7 4 (11) 3

Geelong 18 6 4 (10) 4

St Kilda 16 5 8 (13) 7

Essendon 15 5 4 (9) 7

Carlton 14 2 6 (8) 8

Hawthorn 12 3 6 (9) 7

Kangaroos 10 2 7 (9) 7

Bulldogs 10 3 3 (6) 11

Richmond 11 0 4 (4) 11

Melbourne 10 1 0 (1) 15

Average 13.5 3.4 4.6 (8) 8

* Note: all interstate clubs have ALL games broadcast free to air in their home state.

If Collingwood only had double our exposure, I'd accept it's a matter of business.

But the limits placed on some clubs so that others can load up on media are worthy of Dick Pratt. It's anti-competitive practices santioned by the AFL in order to create revenue for themsleves. If this is a matter of business, then it should be taken to the ACCC.

In internatinoal development, there is a perpetual debate about the merits of 'picking winners' when trying to promote industry in developing countries.

Those in favour argue that by choosing an existing company in the, say, electrical supply industry, and then pumping capital assitance and technology into that company, you quickly get a massive, cost-efficient boost to infrastructure and capacity.

Those against this policy tend to be able to envisage the future, beyond a five-year plan, and argue that doing this will result in a monopolistic environment where a single company controls all energy supply and sets prices to suit themselves, resulting in gross price exploitation and a total failure to delvier services to much of the population and economy, who then need to be perpetually subsidized.

Guess which one the AFL is pursuing. Envisage, beyond a few years, what it would do to the AFL competition in Melbourne.

I think, over the next few years, a campaign will be needed to replace the 'competitive balance fund' with a 'competitive balance policy', as the existing way of doing business will ultimately result in the less promoted clubs requiring more and more assitance to compete with the 'picked winners'.

Anyway, does the AFL really have the right to choose which clubs are commercially advantaged, based on how best it can line it's own pockets?

Nothing can compare to the MIGHTY DEMONS

NOTHING!!

(shift to evil mastermind voice)

NOTHING!!!

NOTHING!!!

BWAA HA HA HA HA HA HA HAAAA!!!!!

If I was DB I'd only use him sporadically up the ground and in defence.

... he's REALLY hard to coach against, and he has that wonderful run-down trick that he does.

... He kicks goals at times when lesser players would be happy just to keep the opposition from possessing the ball.

... I reckon it's redundant and ultimately wasted if he's more than 70 metres from goal. If I was an opposition coach I'd be THRILLED to see Aaron anywhere BUT near the goals. Otherwise you know you're going to have to craft a solution, and there aren't that many.

Agree 100%, the perfect rundown of Davey's role.

Sounds like Cyril Rioli is actually the player to take that wider role, with stints up forward, almost a mirror to Davey.

Could be fun to watch, but sadly I'm still in the KPP midest for pick 14. If he slips to pick 21 I'd be stoked.

I remember we went with a very young team full of speedy rookies a while ago, to play the Doggies in Darwin. Worked a treat, gave some seniors a rest and got us a win.

I think there are enough credible players on our list, plus the eight or nine new players (counting rookies) who will be coming in, to put a serious team in for Preseason Round 1 without damaging season-long fitness.

Top of the list of Pre-season inclusions would be Miller, Newton, CJ, Frawley, Holland, Buckley, Bode, Garland, Dunn, Yze, Sylvia and all three of Jamar, Meeson and PJ. All of these players are in a position where they need to demonstrate their performance, and you wouldn't automatically book them in for all 22 home-away games at the moment.

We'd probably also want to get some game time into Rivers, Whelan, Bartram, Petterd and fingers crossed Moloney.

And We'll be wanting to try out the new guys, so theres a few more.

F: PJ Newton Yze

HF: Dunn Miller Bode

M: Buckley CJ Petterd

HB: Whelan Rivers Bartram

B: Frawley Holland Garland

On: Jamar Moloney Sylvia

Int: pick 4, 14, Warnock, Meeson

Basically, we're looking at a reserves side plus returns from injury. Interesting that it is very tall.

All of Neitz, Robertson, White, Bruce, Green, Carroll, Davey, Bell, Bate, Jones, Mclean, McDonald and Wheatley have missed out.

Obviously, based on warm-up matches, training performance and so on you drop a bunch of players from that line up and bring in a few more experienced/obvious performers, with Bruce being a recommendation (needs confidence) and probably Wheatley to replace on of the less mobile talls.

It'd be an interesting experiment to see how our rucks go without White, too.

Melbourne has announced a systematic leadership strucutre review, hiring the same firm which reviewed Geelong's on-field leadership structure last year (with some success, I s'pose we can say).

I for one thing it's well due, and I don't think I'm alone in holding just a little bit of anger that Neitz has had to carry so much of the leadership burden almost single-handedly, taking the field when he should have been given more time to recover. It particularly bugged me when I was having a look over his player stats today.

Putting aside for a moment the two injury blasted years of 05 & 07, he has been an incredibly consistent performer -

Year Goals Disposals Brownlow Votes

02 82 228 11

03 65 185 8

04 69 187 10

06 68 204 10

05 and 07 were both characterised by Neitz taking the field despite having injuries (including multiple injurues each of which would have sidelined a mere mortal) in order to provide a leadership presence . With a better leadership team in place, Neitz will be able to take the time necessary to recover from injuries and will be a 50+ goalkicker for some years to come.

Anyone at Demonland have ideas on the best plan to deal with the leadership problem?

It's very true that the preseason cup has been soiled a little by Carltons two wins, particularly the second.

Still, a little bit of it's credibility has been restored by Geelong's clean sweep this year.

I think the Demons have a responsiblity to win the Nab cup and then finish top four, just to help it's reputation.

More seriously, a win over the reigning premiers, at their home ground, would be a very positive way to come out for our first competitive hit. It's also a possibility when you consider that Geelong will be exhausted from all their partying and we'll all be fresh as daisies given our exceptionally short injury list.

Short injury list?

When the hell did that happen?

I'm also keen for a first up win because we'd be playing up here in merry Canberra in round two. I get emotional about Demon pre-season games up here because it was the first time Aaron Davey ran out in Melbourne colours; and at such a small stadium where you can practially touch the players from the stands, the evidence was pretty clear that the hype had reality behind it.

I'd love to see another first game like that.

Andy Lovell and Anthony Lovell are one and the same person.

Not only that but Chopper Lovell is the one and same as the other two.

Wow, three coaches in one. I'm impressed.

Thanks for clearing that up.

I like his resume, he might cringe at 'Player Welfare and Development at West Coast' but it would seem to be before the present 'era'. Still a valuable aspect for a Sandy coach.

Can't wait for Allen Jackovich to come back as our fitness coach.

Careful, we may yet see Woey on the fitness team

THAT would be a an interesting turn-up. I believe he's got a coaching appointment in the WAFL for a year or two, but it could be fun having him around. I wouldn't know personally, but his reputation is that he was first-class in his commitment and professionalism to training.

Now, just clearing something up, is it Anthony Lovell or Andy Lovell?

I've found an Anthony Lovell who played just over 100 games for us from 88 to 95, then moved to WC for three years. Jumper number 16 at Melbourne.

Is that the guy?

(interesting side note, statistically his two best games out of about 40 for WC were both against Melbourne)