Adam The God

Without knowing exactly what role we're asking each mid to play, it's hard to know whether he's playing his role or is nowhere near it. It does sound like he's nowhere near it. I hadn't caught up on those player ratings. Good old Wheelo.

I was on board and ready for some growing pains with the new game plan's emphasis on counter attack over forward half territory off the back of stoppage, but dishing up 2 deplorable results in 3 weeks suggests we've overcorrected and should revert to a forward half stoppage game that again maximises the talents of Gawn, Oliver, Viney and Petracca in the middle. We lost a QF to the eventual premiers by 7 points, having lost a player to concussion and being forced to activate our sub early in the game and Fritta and TMac both missing extremely gettable shots that they would usually take late in the game. We also missed multiple simple shots (Max's snap from 10m out for example) against Carlton that would have closed out that game that we only lost by 2 points. I think in retrospect we should have held our nerve and gone into this year with the same game style that saw us finish top 4 three years in a row, but with some minor tweaks. The tweaks should have focused on entries like entering 50 with flatter entries (see the practice game against Carlton early this year) and that is something I think that has worked quite well this year. But the rest of our tweaks (deeper defensive set up and less focus on stoppage) haven't really worked and as we pass the half way mark of the year, I think it's time to revert to what we know maximises the strengths of our team and that's a forward half territory game that relies on winning repeat stoppages.

And that's fair. I think we have a very good list, but it does lack balance for good users out of stoppage, so we rely on blunt execution from stoppage, which has been covered ad nauseam. Having the likes of Kozzy at stoppage is clearly hoped to improve our execution out of there. I think we still have 2-4 years of our window and I think we can extend it by targeting a Callaghan type and/or a FA or two.

It's hard to tell until the end of the year. A lot of water to pass under the bridge yet. But no, when someone says the window is closed, that doesn't mean you can open your window with a couple of FAs or "hard trading" (whatever that is). The window being shut means the nucleus of your team (Gawn, Viney, Clarry, Trac, May and Lever) won't win another flag. I think it's too early to call that. You disagree, fine.

I'm arguing that you can have a down year without being out of your window. So you can gloat at the end of the year, but it doesn't answer the question.

What? Where did I say we're a contender? That's putting words in my mouth... There's a difference between your window being shut and not being up to it at the moment. Read my post above, top 4 is probably shot now, and we're now a real shot at missing the 8 altogether.

The point I was making was if the window is shut, you don't go off and top up with FAs, you rebuild instead. As for our problems, we have huge problems, very unlikely we make the top 4. 2 of the last 3 games have been deplorable, plus that first quarter against Carlton. We're completely inconsistent, lurching wildly from heinous to solid. If it continues, we will miss the 8 altogether.

This makes no sense to me. If the flag window was closed, you'd be clearing out and looking to bottom out, not go after FAs. I disagree though. I don't think the window is closed, but we definitely have huge problems.

Demoralising. Utterly demoralising.

It's such a small sample size though that Cal is going with. And all of our mids were invisible early in the game against Carlton. I think we still need to use Trac in the middle, but totally happy with a 60-40 or 65-35 split depending on the game.

I thought someone posted that Frederick wasn't playing? Anyway, he's a handy player and difficult to shut down given his pace. He's a good "in" for them.

Gulden was a Swan academy member. No one else had access to him really. But generally I agree.

You're not giving Goody enough credit. He built our brand of smashing teams in the middle and from building arguably the best midfield in the comp. We've since changed our game style in the Chris Scott mould being less reliant on stoppage. Collingwood are the same. Sure, defence is a cornerstone of our game, but the idea that we don't focus on contest right across the ground is a bit of a fantasy.

May and Petty were both out in that game. We were very unlucky that night.

We have access to the cream of the crop at the end of this year. Why are we making such a big deal out of what is essentially a rookie draft?

I'm not saying Newcombe, Jordon or Harmes are not good players or don't have good attributes. In fact, that's exactly what I said. But, they are not of the level of Trac, Viney or Clarry. We need to add a Callaghan or someone of his level, someone with the potential to go A/A+ alongside Trac, Viney and Clarry.

Quote of the year. 🤣

We don't need an elite KPF, 2nd ruck. We need a good player. Newcombe is a good player for example, but he's nowhere near elite. We need to add elite talent to our midfield, not another Dunstan, Harmes, Jordon or Newcombe...

The problem is elite midfielders almost always (particularly in the 2020s) come from the top 10 picks in the draft. This was a midseason draft. You cannot expect the cream of the crop out of season...

Some people also forget that we may have an FA or younger on the hook for 2025, the club will also know Petty's intentions better than us, and will be drafting accordingly, as well as planning contingencies should things change. I completely agree with @binman, surprise surprise, in that this year Luker is seen as the next in line for JVRs spot as KPF/2nd ruck. It will also give us cover for Petty if he goes down again. As @old55 puts it, this list decision makes perfect sense from how we're looking at setting up. I'd also say it's spreading the "bet" across multiple players, rather than relying on too few to make it.

Sorry, slightly off, but my point stands. Hawthorn vs GWS, Round 11, Sunday 1st June 2014, 4.40pm. Crowd 17,906. Ironically, the same year, Hawthorn played a home game against St Kilda at the MCG in Round 7. The crowd was 32,924. They were coming off a premiership and up the top again. So we managed a higher home attendance this week against St Kilda at the MCG. Short memories, those Hawthorn nuffies.

So if Luker can make it, it frees up JVR to stay a KPF only and we gain someone who can play as a KPF/2nd ruck. Turner is a forward for this year I'd say, but next year Luker goes forward and Turner goes back. Be interesting to see if they think he can play this year. Doubt it, but we'll have to wait and see.

In JT we trust.

I guess I think we should target someone for the 23 and naturally they'll create depth at Casey. I hope we go Voss. I wanted O'Sullivan last year, hope we get old mate.

I'd much prefer Bowser playing off the back of stoppage, ala Salem. That's realistic too. Not sure McVee through the midfield this year is.