Adam The God

He never said that. He said they didn't review it, which means the coaches didn't review it with the players, but of course, the coaches reviewed it. That said, we're stubbornly continuing to play a game style that doesn't work and has been shown doesn't work on the second biggest stage (a prelim).

Yep, agreed. And once he gets creative, he'll eventually get the confidence back in his kicking.

It seems I'm not quite as pessimistic (?perhaps that's not fair?) as you seem to be. This post makes it seem like we're in more trouble than I think we are. Although, I do see what you mean about Hibberd and Jetta, and having to replace them soon. Agree completely with the forward problems. But I reckon we've got our inside midfield set. We need to get some leg speed like Collingwood and now even Carlton have. If Lever recovers, which I think he will long term, we've got a real general there and someone to build a defence around. I'm more excited by Petty than you seem to be, but time will tell. I also think Weideman will be a good player, but there's no doubt that we have some holes at both ends of the ground and through our midfield given the lack of pace through there.

Particularly, as Richmond's midfield struggles to win clearances.

See, I don't think this is cause for alarm. What we have done is recruited players that allow us to control the midfield. That's the first pillar in any great team. If the game style is shizen though, your hard work at the coal face stands for little. I truly believe this can be turned around relatively quickly. I'm not convinced it can be turned around in-season, but in 2020, with some new experienced coaches to implement a new system, we can start to properly cash in on our continued midfield dominance.

Stretch needs to be given a proper string (didn't want a pun) of games to show he can cement his spot. For years now, Stretch has been in one game and out the next, yet others play terrible games and keep their spots, or do very little but are given a proper go at it. Given Stretch's professionalism, he can't be any worse than Jones or Lewis on a wing. The latter two are almost always out of position anyway, so I can't for the life of me, understand why Stretch is constantly treated differently from others. I presume it's an attack on the footy issue that Goodwin doesn't like, but give the kid a bloody chance, like you did with ANB for years. We're crying out for outside run and at least Stretch has a bit of toe.

This is spot on. I reckon Preuss' recruitment is a bit inspired by Cox's importance to Collingwood last year, but as you imply, we don't deliver the ball to advantage like Collingwood do. The more I read on Demonland today, the more it's obvious that given our statistical dominance is still in most areas, if we can switch up the game style mid-season, we could still win a few games this year.

Great post, mate. Melksham and Petracca are really the only two winners in our forward half beside maybe Preuss, who continually brought the ball to ground yesterday against 4 or 5 opponents. However, I'd be playing Melksham and Petracca across half forward. Their delivery is so far superior to just about anyone else. Melksham lead the comp last year for assists. We need him up the ground, because he's the guy that creates so much of our connection between midfield and forwardline. Further, when we got our game together in the second quarter against Essendon, it was Petracca and Melksham across half forward (and rotating deep forward to be fair) that were involved in so many of our scoring chains. We need to work out a way of unclogging our forward half and enabling our forwards space to lead into. Changing a game style that is entirely focused on the forward territory battle will be a start.

Yes, @Cam Schwab's Whiteboard, please change your name. I already feel like I'm watching 2012 onfield, I don't need to be reminded about 2012 off field too.

At half time yesterday, I was looking at the stats. We were winning the UPs and were close in CPs. We led the rest of the stats. The only stat we weren't leading was the glaring discrepancy between forward 50 efficiency. St Kilda's was healthy, well over 60% and ours was a shocking 37%. Looking at the stats on my phone post-game now, surprisingly I see that we staggeringly won UPs (by 2), but yet again, lost the CP count. This would back up what it seemed to me at times was us trying to play a bit more tempo between chaos and control. The rest of the final stats are relatively even except for efficiency inside 50. St Kilda's dropped from half time to 55%, but not surprisingly, ours dropped even further to 35% (19 shots from 55 inside 50s). I'm probably not saying anything new here, but there's certainly no need to completely start again list wise. Yes, we have some holes, but our midfield dominance is still apparent. I'm going to argue that if we fix our forwardline and our delivery to our forwardline, that's where the answer lies to multiple wins this season.

I haven't rated SOS and have been vocal about it. I certainly didn't rate much of what he did at GWS with the gold he had at his disposal, but he's certainly done a good job the last 3-4 years. I'd argue Cripps is their Oliver. I reckon we need a Walsh type to compliment our Oliver though. Maybe we'll get him with our [censored] 2019? A nice breakdown of their outside mid talent though. It's quite Collingwood-esque (jeez, I really am going mad with all the Collingwood love at the moment). We'd kill for that. All those quick, nicely skilled back flankers that can roll through their midfield. I'd also argue McKay feels more like a Daniher/Buddy type, but we'll see. I think Weideman will be a good/very good player, but Carlton cleaned up that 2015 draft with Curnow and McKay as mid to late first rounders. They were a bit lucky due to the depth of KPPs that year, but they managed to almost entirely sort out their spine in one draft year (Weitering at one end of the ground and the other two at the other end). It's a bit like the 2004 draft for Hawthorn with Roughead and Franklin in the top 5.

I've just re-read this thread and that wasn't at all what he was saying. He said he was a spud that should be traded at year's end and you agreed with him. Nice try backing out of that one. Mostly because posters can't be bothered pulling you up anymore.

Petrevski-Seton is exactly the sort of player our midfield is lacking. The closest thing we've got to him is Harmes.

I wouldn't say he was good. He had a number of slipped tackles and as usual, was caught underneath the ball multiple times. That said, he was better than most of his defensive mates. Jetta was a shadow of his former self and has been all season. Hibberd was terrible. Hore took some good marks, but was still outmarked too easily at times and turned it over by foot once or twice. I know when there's not much else out there to get excited by, the [censored] looks okay. I think that was the case with Frost. He didn't have any obvious brainfarts, but his usual errors were there and I'd actually say his tackling (one of his better traits) was off.

Look, TBH, I'm right there with you, mate. Not sure if you're joking, but if you're not, I reckon the Blues have fixed their spine in the last 3 years (their forwardline is going to be seriously dangerous in 2-3 years). I have major questions over their engine room, but they have just about the best mid in the game and unlike us, they have some zip to their midfield. I wonder how much having Roos in control for the time we had him, played into our drafting for certain needs. Surely it had a huge impact. The one knock on Sydney for years has been their lack of pace and you'd have to say we've gone hard after a certain type of inside bull and neglected pace. Sydney were always thereabouts, but they only won two flags (of course I'd take this record!) and missed a bunch of times, despite finishing in the top 4 for however many years. It's worth questioning this Roos influence. I don't believe you need an array of A graders with pace on your list. I believe you need role players that offer the team a bit of balance though. We clearly don't have this. We've been able to paper over our leg-speed deficiencies because it's more about speed of ball movement, but in actual fact, the modern game still requires great leg-speed. @Redleg If you look at how Richmond implement their forward half pressure, it's all about speedy smalls. If you look at how Collingwood implement their control style from the back, it's all about having players that have the pace to get into space on the wide expanses of the MCG. But let's be up front about this here. It'll make me feel better. Where are the holes in our list that you see, @rjay?

I had a perfect view of that Gawn dropped mark that lead to St Kilda's first goal. He certainly took his eyes off it as you say, but it actually would have been an uncontested mark. The St Kilda player wasn't as close to him as he thought. In fact, from memory, Preuss or another Melbourne player was closer to him. And yeah, that's ridiculous. I didn't realise they'd been off that long. Salem had just started providing good outside run in the second and Gus was our second best player behind Harmes to that point in the game. Are they trying to manage loads within game? I have no idea, but if not, it's mindnumbingly stupid coaching. I'm certainly not writing off Goodwin, but our structures are a mess and his chaos game style is already outdated. Surely, watching the two Grand Finalists from last year, who both play control football, spanking the other two preliminary finalists, who both play chaos football, was enough for Goodwin to realise the Beveridge / Hardwick chaos game could be too easily beaten? Maybe it's revisionist commentary, but it could be viewed that Goodwin was incredibly arrogant to think that with our interrupted and shortened pre season, we could replicate the midfield dominance of 2018 and that no other side would improve. There is certainly a danger of comparing game styles of other sports with AFL, because all games are different, however I would argue the prevailing game style of repeated champions in not only the AFL but soccer, is the control game style. Spread the field as wide as possible and stretch the defence, allowing holes to open up in the defensive structure, before going into these pockets behind the defence at pace. I know Goodwin is a fan of international sports, so I hope he is paying notice to what Man City and Liverpool are doing in England, because it's exactly what West Coast and Collingwood did last year. West Coast play on the counter with speedy ball movement (controlling from their superior defence) and Collingwood chip the ball around and then go in behind the defence with pace like City do. Obviously, this is an oversimplification of game style, but chaos caught teams out for two years and it's now been figured out. It's dead. Time to move on, Goody. What I found interesting for a portion of yesterday's game was that we tried control from the back. We tried to flick a switch from chaotic to control, but what would happen is we'd eventually handball after kicking across our backline for a bit, and usually this handball would go to say Hibberd, who would then bomb it long to a contest (exactly what the opposition wanted). That contest wouldn't be deep inside 50 where we could reset and apply pressure. It would fall somewhere between centre wing and 60m out from our goal. This has to be a coaching thing. The messaging has to be 'get the ball in quick'. The problem is there's not enough nuance to that plan. And what I find staggering is that this is exactly what we were doing for large periods of last year and it wasn't working. When we started lowering the eyes and kicking shorter we'd win. We tried this a bit yesterday but our forward set up is also a joke. Melksham and Weideman are the only two forwards who lead at the ball carrier and Weideman often runs under the flight of the ball. So when we'd go short, it'd eventually break down and St Kilda's pressure was good. So I agree our team defence is terrible, but I'd add that our forward structures are hopeless too. Why is it we haven't looked at poaching coaches from the Hawthorn system? It's a coaching factory out at Glenferrie. For the record, I'll back Goodwin, unless Clarkson becomes available. ?

Yep, if Roos actually said on the post game last night that what Goodwin is implementing is an extension of what he was putting in place, I just don't buy that. Goodwin almost immediately implemented this ridiculous aggressive defensive press, which with complete midfield dominance, can and does lock the ball inside our 50 for an extended length of time. However, this almost always leads to easy opposition goals out the back. It also means that without us converting every clutch chance under pressure in our own crowded forward half, this game style has the propensity to break our back psychologically. Whenever we have dominance over a team and we fail to score in our crowded forwardline, seeing the opposition slingshot down the other end for an easy goal, is soul destroying and undoes a lot of our hard work. The game style sets us up for failure more often than not and relies on such little margin for error that it is so clearly unsustainable. This is year 3 of the aggressive press and it doesn't work without, as you say mate, world record midfield dominance. That's unsustainable. You can't expect that every week and every season. I want sustained success and I'm sure the club does too.

There was a contest at the 11 minute mark of the first quarter where he was completely out on his feet already and the St Kilda player skipped away from him. I knew we were gone then. He then spent a few passages of play in the third, when we were murdered, trying to get easy kicks in the forwardline but failing to chase. He also played a kick behind the ball a few times, that is what I presume you're referring to when say 'running defensively', but was completely caught out of position constantly. Hard with turn overs but he was playing a kick behind the play, as was Preuss on occasion. There's two things here. 1) he either has absolutely no tank due to a poor off season or 2) he's incredibly lazy and playing 'me' football. I would like to think if it was "1", he'd still be busting a gut and running himself into the ground. On the ground, it certainly doesn't appear that way to me. Off the back of last year, I was one of the posters saying Gawn could be captain material. He'd just shown that his first AA wasn't a Mark Jamar flash in the pan, but he's so inconsistent from year to year that I'd prefer he concentrate on his own game and fix that first. On this point though, leadership continues to be a major issue at Melbourne. Jones and Lewis must surely be gone at season's end, but who do we turn to for leadership? A constantly injured Jack Viney who needs to focus on his own game or someone else? I'd say Lever and Viney if either could get on the park, but we can't rely on that just yet. A lot of thinking to be done for all concerned.

Did you watch the game today, mate, or check the stats at the end again? Gawn was ordinary, I'd say he was close to terrible. He constantly dropped marks, was run off his feet at ground level (I recall one really good chase down tackle from him, otherwise zilch) and his tap work was so-so given who he was up against. The reason I will take a ping is because Gawn was out in the media flapping his tongue all off season, talking a big game, and that's all well and good if you back it up, but he hasn't. That's the bloody embarrassing part. As was being outmarked by a 192cm KPF in Membrey on the goal line. No excuses. He's a leader now and he's not bloody showing it. People are well within their right to question his leadership and output.

He played on a wing last year too.

The post is spot on, but obvious.

You can't help but think we've got a few on the ground and in the coaches box that drank a few litres of bathwater over summer.

Because Tom McDonald isn't a good backman. In fact, he's ordinary. With ball in hand in the back half, he more than not [censored] it up. I'm certainly lost as to why they keep playing a clearly injured McDonald. I can only think they're trying to protest Weideman.

Lol. Go and pop up another best 22, fella.

[censored] call. Continues to try his heart out and is creating assists for his team mates every week. Playing in our forwardline would be pretty horrible the way we bomb it in long to Preuss every time.