Adam The God

If only we could keep Viney out there, a midfield of Gawn, Oliver, Viney and Brayshaw is A grade if they can improve on their two-way defensive running.

Is that gronk Boomer Harvey in the media is he?

I've got to say even Viney (who'd probably be termed as B+ at the moment), has shown up Jones' leadership, as Jack really has the will to drag his team over the line and almost did it the last quarter against Port.

AVB definitely backwards in his second year IMO. And then got injured.

Once again, I think some are confusing the points here. The consistent line is Jones was the only one who tried hard every week, but he was surrounded by players who weren't good enough. When Roos got to the club he did an interview on the MFC website that discussed how Jones would play easy footy, the handballs out the back, the long kicks to no one. Nathan himself has admitted that he improved and became a better player under Roos, winning the BnF in 2014. Our list was ordinary again that year. Since then, others have gone past him. Some posters who I respect are also suggesting Jones is being judged merely for poor form this year. When I talk about his leadership qualities onfield, I am referring to his entire body of work. It's Jones' leadership credentials that I would debate the most. Neitz was a guy who could turn a game. He was no Franklin or Judd or Ablett, but he was capable of turning games. Jones has rarely, if ever, turned games. That's just fact. If there's evidence to the contrary, people would be able to point to this. He did lay one of his two big tackles in that quarter that led to Spargo's goal actually, but yes, he certainly didn't create the momentum in that quarter. Nor does he. Yep. I'd take SWYL's post to mean that the fact Jones has been held up as a champion A grader by some supporters (the same way some lauded Brock McLean and Jack Grimes), shows how bad we've been, given Nathan's actual abilities have never been A grade.

He deliberately pulled his kick because he looked up and saw Bulldogs all down the line. We were right behind it and saw what he saw. It was a deliberate skill error.

I don't rate Vanders either. His disposal is extremely hit and miss, and he's probably the worst handballer I've ever seen at AFL level. But I suspect Vanders will get a game soon enough for his pressure acts and his ability to bob up with a goal or two.

Completely agree RE: players developing at different rates, but Bugg has a fundamental flaw with his kicking and IMO poor decision making is very rarely corrected. If he's still making these mistakes at 25, I'm sorry, but it's not going to click for him. I can see the horizon for Harmes and ANB might get there one day, although I'm skeptical. The major thing these two guys have that Bugg doesn't, is time. They're both 22.

I reckon GWS could win it from outside of the top 4 too. I was thinking that over the weekend. Will be tough without Cameron and Patton though. They might have got it done the other night, but how much longer?

Yep, I'd certainly be picking through Richmond's list for a zippy small forward. We really only have Jeffy that has genuine leg speed. If we could get a Richmond want-away for a 3rd rounder, I'd do it.

He's got a good tank too, does Harmes. He could make it as a tagger and winger. I've written him off before, but if he keeps working on his skills and limiting mistakes, he has enough flexibility to play 100+ games for the club.

The problem with Bugg (despite being limited by foot and decision making) is that we already carry Harmes and ANB. The latter two are inconsistent and when they're off, they're really off. Particularly, ANB. If you add Bugg in there too, the margin for error is too high. The more we improve list, the more these players will become fringe players, which is a good thing. It means every game they play is a blessing for them, which ensures they can rarely afford to drop off. He might get one more game, but I reckon he's done at season's end. With Taylor's record, I'd be giving him as many picks as possible to unearth another gem that could replace Bugg.

It's hard having an opinion on here sometimes and probably because there are a lot of ordinary posts about. However, just because you think Jones isn't good enough anymore and state that he has always lacked vital leadership qualities, doesn't mean you're being mean-spirited. I've been on record for many years as saying Jones stood out because he played in one of the worst teams in VFL/AFL history. A good player, but not a great player. Not an A grader. And not an onfield leader. He's been a captain by necessity, because of a vacuum; it must be said not created by him, but by the horrible recruiting of CC and BP and poor development standards set by CS - yes, we've had those discussions over and over again through the years. But it seems there are some discussions we can't have around here without getting defensive. Or rather, some players or people being sacred. Nathan has always stuck by the club when he could have gone and this has often afforded him the defence of some posters on Demonland (and my respect), despite his lack of genuine A grade quality or A grade leadership ability. IMO, there have been multiple games over the years where his lack of leadership has cost us games, yet some posters refuse to admit this and instead revert to defence mode immediately. His lack of onfield leadership when the chips are down has been evident by mere body language, decision making and connectivity with his team mates for years. He seems like a really nice bloke and he has eked out every drop of himself, but if the end is coming, why can't we call it out? He's managed 250+ games and that is an incredible effort, but he's almost done. It's fine to accept that.

All I can say is 'thank you, Jason Taylor'. The new Wiz.

The thing about Dahlhaus is that he's been there before. If we can land him through FA and not take up too much of the cap, it'd be a coup if we can couple him with Gaff as well. All of a sudden in 2019 we have outside talent in Gaff, Dahlhaus, Fritsch, Hunt and even Stretch (who showed promising signs the other week). For mine, outside of FAs in Gaff and Dahlhaus, I'd be really keen to get a mature aged ruckman (a plug and play) on the list to support Max.

I'm confident that the club will have factored in Gus' rise. He's a top 3 pick. It's not like he's really come from the clouds. This was expected when we drafted him. He's finally starting to fulfil the potential he has and we've now invested time in him too. He'll sign and for a fair deal. This is a guy who we stuck by despite his career being on the edge of a precipice last year and even early this year. He'll sign a 2-3 year deal (it may be 3 to give himself a bit of security in case the head stuff flairs up again). As for Fritsch, he's another one who we gave a chance to through the Casey system and then backed him in through our AFL system. I can't see him playing us too hard either. As we've heard multiple times from the club since Roosy arrived, we have a no [censored] policy and good characters are sought. As long as Bayley is being paid fairly, he will not hold the club over a barrel. Which, leaves plenty of money for Gaff. The more talent we have in this side, the harder it is to fail. Gawn, Oliver and Brayshaw are starting to show some leadership, which coupled with Viney and Lever, means we have a terrific young leadership group to guide this talented side. And when Vince, Lewis and Jones go over the next 1-3 years, I'm starting to believe these guys will more than fill the void, they'll demonstrate the leadership we've been calling out for.

Not sure how we finish above the Power if we both win 3 games from here on out. They are already a game ahead of us.

I'm in Perth for business until Monday afternoon, so I'm going to miss Round 23 as it stands. This idea, however, would allow me to see it. Therefore, yes, please.

Bugg is not good enough. Should not play again unless we're ravaged by injuries or our small forwards fail to deliver consistently.

Agree on the Vandenberg comparison. If we had more experience on our list, you'd be moving on Vince, Jones and probably Lewis at the end of this season, but given our dearth in this area, Jones and Lewis will stay on. I'd almost certainly suggest Lewis and Jones will bow out at the end of 2019. Sometimes, the end comes quickly and you can really see it this year with Jonesy. Vince shouldn't have played on this year IMO.

The attribute that really makes Gus stand out and makes him hard to play against is his dual-sidedness. If you look around the competition at the best midfielders, only Dangerfield, Bontempelli, Sidebottom and at a pinch Cotchin and Ward, can kick well and consistently on their opposite sides. Given his ball-winning-ability, that skill puts him in pretty unique company.

That was potentially the most dominant game Max has played. He was brilliant (aside from a few of those kicks - please don't kick it - you can't), his tap work was sublime, as was his marking around the ground. After a first half where he was found defensively wanting, Gus really lifted in the second half and was instrumental in that powerful 10 minute blast that changed the game. Not only did he exhibit much better two way running, he won a staggering number of clearances in the second half. I'd have to look at the numbers, but if Macrae had a really good first half, Gus had a stunning second half. Wonderful to see the young fella getting great reward. His outside/inside work and link up with Clarry is really becoming damaging. This brings me to Clarry, who today became my favourite demon of all time. I've just never seen a Melbourne player as good as him nor as consistent. This guy is the stuff of footballing dreams. He is the absolute complete package. When we start to see that contested marking, he will become unstoppable. He's also close to untaggable if he can become more damaging up forward. The first A+ footballer at the MFC in 30+ years. About time! I was also a massive fan of our centre stoppage set ups today. The Bulldogs are a team who are really well coached and have troubled us in the middle, in the recent past. But today we looked dynamic and the link up play between Gawn, Gus, Clarry and Petracca was extremely exciting. If those guys are clicking against decent midfield opposition (say what you like about the rest of the Bulldogs team), then we may just have turned a corner with our midfield. The biggest change to our midfield is the defensive transition running, which was for much of the game, far better than it has been in the past. However, there were moments, such as one of Wallis' goals where our defensive set up was all over the joint. We had our entire defence sitting 10-15 metres out from goal and there were 3 or 4 Bulldogs waiting by themselves 40-50 metres out. We miss Lever's organisation and I have question marks over Plapp's capabilities as defensive line coach, but our mids worked really hard to push back and cover space today. He doesn't get massive numbers, but Charlie Spargo is a Caleb Daniel clone. He's a brilliant decision maker, hard tackler and neat kick. Fast becoming one of my favourites too. Jason Taylor's a genius as far as I'm concerned, particularly, when you put Spargo alongside Fritsch, who should play on a wing or off half back for as long as possible. He's silk and another elite disposer, alongside Salem back there. Unfortunately, Jones is just about at the end though. He laid one excellent tackle that led to a goal, but other than that, I thought he was embarrassing. Vince was his usual self too. While Hannan showed why he was only playing due to a late injury to Viney. I'm glad we got this one in the bag though and a percentage boost of 3% made it even sweeter. Pity it wasn't more, but I'll take it. Next week is the season. Without Viney's intensity around the contests, everyone else has to be up and about. If Max, Clarry, Gus, Petracca, Hogan and McDonald have good games, it'll go a long way to ensuring we win.

He's very soft when the ball is in the air. He got beaten a couple of times in the air today and at least one of them resulted in a Bulldogs goal. Pretty much sums up my thoughts. Vince in particular, with Jones not far behind. JKH definitely gets a game next week. He must deliver again next week otherwise his time might be up.

He played a game like this earlier last year too, where he tackled really well and that was about it. At least, he had a couple of good disposals to go with the tackles today. Not sure he has the tools to make it though. This off season will be interesting. There are probably 4 or 5 in the gun to be delisted and Jay is one of them, although judging by Goody's bear hug on him after the game, he liked what he saw of JKH.

I agree about the flakiness of other clubs, but I reckon it all comes down to next week. We beat Geelong and we make finals, lose and I don't think we'll get there.