DemonDan...

and we're off ...

I don't see what the issue is.

Lol - are you a lawyer?

you can jazz it up all you like - whatever gets you thru the night and all that..

But the reality is we get 3 guns -OR- 2 guns.. thats the bottom line..

i'll take 3 thanks.

this is the perfect way to think about it, i would be [censored] if we didnt take him and many people would reconsider there membership

this is the perfect way to think about it, i would be [censored] if we didnt take Toumpas at Pick 2 (if GCS are dumb enough to offer it) and many people would reconsider their membership..

The thing that actually bothers me, is that its not Neelds decision!

For some reason i would be much happier with him making the final call.. (take JV at 3 or not) ..and would be happy to back that, whatever the decision was.

Do we want this dud anyway?

Fake glasses wearing hipster [censored].. more concerned about coking it up with buddy and the like.

He reminds me of the kid who'd get beat up at school..

and b-grade at best atm.. even coming from the filth midfield- he's behind jones, grimes and jordie in rank imo..

..and denham t.p.man, everyone knows he hates MFC, he just does.

he'll walk past me on the street one day with any luck.

We have absolutely nothing to worry about.

This is what i dont get with people..

We can have 3 gun mids / players -OR- 2 gun mids / players..

which would you prefer?

Suns list manager Scott Clayton on Jack Viney: "As much as his family has been very Melbourne ... things change."

Counter punch..

Not a strong one though.. they might blink 1st after seeing that H-sun article..

If you click the 'star' next to the thread it will take you to the last post that you read.

You see thats helpful, you can be nice.

But ive kinda grown attached to ma tahoma after all these years.

I'll make sure i post like this, whenever im posting in your threads or responding to your posts though..

Then everyones Bexed..

I've been pumping up Toumpas a bit but wouldn't be disappointed to pick up Wines if that's how the cards fell.

Jimmy Toumpas - you dont want to put pressure on the kids, but its easier to use a past player instead of listing a dozen different qualities to say how you feel about them..

and boy does this kid remind me of Andrew McLeod screaming thru the middle of the ground.. and skills!.. ridiculous.

He has a weird gait, but that'll be sorted soon enough.

Then theres Grundy.. he's just nipping at everyones heels for mine.. come along in leaps and bounds (literally) imo this year..

If the cards fell our way Toumpas would go 2 as you would expect, leaving us Wines, Grundy, and Viney 2nd round.. that would be my preference.

If not, Toumpas and Wines for me and hopefully a stringer or mayes might fall to 14.. if we dont trade it.. and i'll regard GCS in the same vein as i do the filth.

Sheahans job is to pump up the kids, rarely if ever do you hear anything negative from him. He is the guy that tells us that so and so is like Judd, Goodes or Selwood, then the kid lands at the club and the supporters think they have the next Judd, Goodes or Selwood and get disappointed when he doesn't step up in his first year and maybe never steps up.

Fair enough.. i agree.

But not all were presented with an award for the 'best player'..

Sheehan reserved that for the best player over the ten matches, that deserved an extra highlight..

on a show that is there to do just that.

..and this year it was Wines.

Having them both, him and viney as really good mates, on the team would be awesome and id expect an indigenous type connection between them..

Yes, I saw TAC Future Stars. And no need for the notes.

Wines is a good player. You don't need to convince anyone. Just not as quick, or as good 'inside' as Jack. Viney is the stand-out inside mid in the draft.

You won't get an argument from anyone - except the mirror.

Well done on the effort though.

Thats funny because in the very line before that you ARGUE - 'Just not as quick...'

Plenty of people put Wines ahead of JV..

People that can actually retain a certain amount of what they read and spit it back out in some form of opinion, that actually adds to the discussion..

of which youre obviously not one.. because you have a boner for him.. its weird.

..and the video and links were for everyone.. get over yourself.

Can I just say that when posters use another font type to make their posts stand out - I immediately think: 'this person has no confidence that anyone will read what they say.'

Just use the default font type.

Actually, i dont log in that much, so when i pop in to see the latest when i can, its easier to spot where i left off last in a particular thread..

But since you know everything and insist on telling us about it- in every post, in every thread, on every page- (congrats on the 10,000 posts too)

i'll just move on..

"O.Wines is an inside-mid with leadership qualities, -just like Viney- theyre almost the same player, they grew up / trained together.. now viney has 3 kgs on Greene, BUT wines has 3 kgs on viney!"

Viney is a better inside mid than Wines, Dan. Viney is quicker, has a better sidestep..., is more aggressive, more manic at the contest, and is a more reliable kick over 30-40 metres. Viney doesn't have great penetration in his kicking, but he's very accurate over a shorter distance.

Anyone who has watched a bit of Wines and researched him knows that his kicking is little better than average and lets him down on occasions.

Thats just your opinion, Ben.

Wines is just as quick as Viney, aggression and attack on the contest (add tackling, endurance) are all equal to that of viney, if not better.. i'd say better.

watch for yourself, he bursts out of packs and hits up targets superbly and tackles like a beast, takes a nice mark.. its all there:

In fact, just a week or so after you posted this reply,

Wines was awarded the tac cup / u-18 player of the series - was on Future Stars - sunday morning - hopefully its on the net somewhere..

Shifter spoke glowingly about him.. and this from contested footy (the 1st article i pulled up..)

Quick Notes on Oliver Wines

• Very strong bodied- AFL ready
  
• Inside player
  
• Attacks the footy hard
  
• Exceptional endurance
  
• Good skills hands or feet
  
• Great tackling technique
  
• Reads the game well
  

No mention of

"Anyone who has watched a bit of Wines and researched him knows that his kicking is little better than average and lets him down on occasions"

From either Sheehan, or in any article ive read.. and i'll take his opinion before anyones.. i dont where you got that info..

IMO - Wines is the best inside mid atm.. id take him at No.4 in a heartbeat.. a micheal voss type with leadership all written over him.

this too - http://www.afl.com.a...x?newsid=139314

..and if someones stupid enough to leave us the next andrew mcleod in Toumpas (his running style will be corrected as soon as he gets to a club and his hips will be fine)

or Grundy, who looks plays like he'd scare Dean Cox out of a contest.. then bring it on.. you cant give up the 2nd live pick in this draft, if offered..

Viney will come home imo.. or we'd try like buggery!

-in saying this, as we get closer, i have a gut feeling we will chicken out and take him if called by the suns at 2-

He wants out ...

Collingwood's Chris Dawes looks for new home

Byrnes manager all but confirmed him coming to us..

'I think he'll find a home there' he said, tacked onto the end of an article that i cant find atm.

anyway.. (allowing for a mitch clark-like sensation)

its done!

also this:

http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/HeraldSunAflMelbourne/~3/f0iMqZ5MyeQ/story-fn69a32t-1226486129188

do the google thing..

So will you still trust Neeldy if we trade Stef? Or we find out what's wrong with you?

Yes, i'll trust his judgement if he gets traded..

Thats what i said.. i even underlined it and its still not clear for you..

I trust that Neelds methods will drag us up the ladder - and keep us there..

Caps off a fantastic year. Considering the team won a total of 4 games I thought this was an incredible effort.

It was obvious he would top the polling for us, but 14 was more votes than I thought. Well done Jonesy.

Hard to believe some posters in Demonland gave him the same treatment as Cale Morton few years ago........

Ive been wanting to 'bump' that thread from 2010 for a year now..

Great effort Jonesy and there were many calling for him to be traded a couple of seasons ago, let that be a lesson to all on this forum who slag off our young players at every opportunity.

Again great effort Jonesy it's a tribute to your dedication and efforts

Absolutely 100% spot on.. ignore any trolls in response mate, that comment is spot on.

the keyboard heroes on this site are plentiful..

Jonesy.. you ARE the man! Congrats mate.

I knew you had it in you.

Don't agree wyl

He was pushed out make no mistake about it.

Can i ask where you were standing when you witnessed this event?

just curious..

Maybe, mfc implied with the recent injuries he'd been going through around the time, that he was more likely to be making his way up from Casey - rather than a guaranteed start from week to week?

Maybe, he felt his body was letting him down? ..and after a year 'off' decided it had healed enough to go around 1 more time with gws?

EDIT: Wish he couldve been kept around the club, in some form of coaching role tho..

You're being selective and even erroneous with your dates and ages.

Martin is 25. He'll be 26 at the end of this year, and will play next season as a 26 year old. If he stays for Jamar's 3 years, he would be 28 for season 2015.

Collingwood (and if rumours are to be believed, other clubs as well) are into him for a reason.

TY bing. Its like Rhino Richards the 2nd!

dont let the truth get in the way of a good arguement..

Whats wrong with people?

Have we been so battered and bruised recently, that we'll turn our displeasure to whoever the topic of the moment is on?

Someone said Martin was 'uncoachable!' WTF? Another wants to trade him AND another mfc player for Josh Caddy!! The same Caddy that struggles to get a dozen touches each week and has NO impact..

Wow. Were beyond desperate.

Maybe we should just trust Neeldy and his team this year, that they will make the right decisions. Im more than confident in Neeld.

Stef Martin is a BEAST. He's our Naitanui.. (but Stef CAN kick) He roves his own ball, is just as athletic, he's faster than most - he's just got to get his body right. Im sure Neeldy sees it too.

The difference? Nik-nat plays in a sucessful team with Dean Cox..

Besides the fact he's about to peak, theres 20 players who imo, MFC would cut before him.. and lets not forget the fact that he started a few years later than most too..

i believe he's earned his chance, with us, next year.

From a TAC cup preview this year.

"Oakleigh are always strong, like Calder, it helps having private schools in you catchment handing out footy scholarships like candy. Jack Viney seems to have given TAC a miss this year to play at Casey with the Dees 2s, which will hurt their midfield a bit, but they'll still be up there. Too well-coached and too deep a list not to. To watch: Jaksch, Stewart, Hachem, Prows"

Viney was having his work load managed by Melbourne to play school football at Carey and some games with Casey.

Yep, and we established that i was talking about u18s, not TAC.. oh.. about 2 PAGES AGO..

Turn around, look and wave, its already gone past you..

The strangest post I have ever read

So you actually understand it?

Kudos to you!

I do appreciate that you try.. you'll be at a big-boy level in no time.

TAC Cup and the U18 championships are 2 different competitions. A draft expert like yourself should know this

What are all the feeble minds doing out tonight?

DOES IT MATTER WHERE HE PLAYED? -or- HOW He Played? hmm..

I dont know the other numbnuts so well, but you Furious D - i KNOW youre going to need extra time to figure it out.. good luck.

Now dont help him out anyone.. he has to do it by himself..

The key component with Viney and other contested ball winning maniacs is their weight. It's far more important than their height. Viney is already 3kg heavier than Toby Greene. Viney and Selwood spend their time getting head high tackles due to being first at the footy and being the lowest in the contest. For them weight, skill and attitude is far more important than a couple of cm. I really rate Hrovat in this draft, as well as Kennedy and Viney towers over them.

I hope this helps.

How could it help? You have NO idea.

O.Wines is an inside-mid with leadership qualities, -just like Viney- theyre almost the same player, they grew up / trained together.. now viney has 3 kgs on Greene, BUT wines has 3 kgs on viney!

You emphasise on weight being the KEY component, yet ignore the strongest inside mid available!

You would havve to be about the least educated here in regard to the draft.

You have NO idea.

The only reason I'm engaging you is that you're representative of many who seem new to the history of drafting.

One thing that is certain is that things won't pan out the way you think with regards to who the best players turn out to be.

Wow. A whole big page of nothing, no meaning, no point - just drivel.. i could barely get through it.

Im glad youre CERTAIN of something, when most of us just voice our opinions..

Anyway, keep reading, youre about to join the other 2 as monumental fools..

Look mate, you've been owned. You haven't seen him at all.

HA HA - another to the list of pathetics..

NOW - The only reason I'm engaging you is that you're representative of you, who seems new to the history of INTELLIGENCE..

You see i actually have the games he played in, recorded off Foxtel and have watched them more than once.. Do your research fool.

HOW DISGRACEFUL that you didnt even know he was playing!! ..AND YET, youre sticking up for him!! HA HA HA.

you absolute nobody..

Actually the more i think about it -THANK YOU- because even i couldnt have made you look as stupid as you do right now!

I Will NEVER let you live this down you absolute pillock..

HEEHEE. love it.

Just a refresh on the situation for all as it stands: here Ben-hur, 1st line paragraph 2, just for you:

the problem with your stance is theres no way of absolutely qualifying that. The best you can use is hidsight and actual history in order to assess where they should have ranked.

Again, this year i think its much more clear cut.. {obviously leaving out daniher}

1. whitfield

2. toumpas -or grundy if GCS want a tall

3. grundy

If we get at least one of these players {or Hogan, MD} and JV rd.2 - its a clear win for us.

In my opinion, clear cut.

Lols Jack didn't play any games in the TAC cup this year, keep watching you battler.

"New age hipster" - enough said.

DemoDan - youre a clown

I meant U18s, trust you imbecilles to miss the point..

After i opened up on you a couple posts back, your best response is - 'DemoDan, youre a clown'??

How embarrassing for you in front of everyone..

Don't hold your breath DD - we've stuffed this up before......

..which hopefully has moved us closer to a time when we DO get it right..

L. Cook, for eg, was plucked at 12 when many thought he go at 2o - 25..

This year its clearer, imo:

-we either trade 3 for Hogan in the mini-draft toumpas/wines/grundy at 4 {whoever GCS leave behind.. {i think theyll take grundy}} -means JV rd.2-

-GCS bid Viney at 2, they get him and we get a choice of any 2 of toumpas/wines/grundy, at 3 and 4! -i'll go the 1st two! -means no JV-

-or we all die on december 21st 2o12 and none of this matters anyway! -means no nothing-

Option 1 would be my preference.

FFS, get over it. He's top 10, that's close enough.

Just THE PERFECT example of the inadequacy that has become the norm within the MFC and its supporters.

NO.

At pick 3, i want a top 3 player. Period.

This is one of the worst posts I have ever seen

Your logic is this -

because Ablett and Watson were taken in the 40's 10 years ago (completely insignificant to whats happening in 2012, but thats another story), the Demons should let Viney go to Gold Coast because we arent going to get him with a 2nd rounder.

Never mind the fact Viney is a clear top 5 talent. and pick 3 is a fair price for him.

He is clearly better than 2 of the kids you listed, and Id have him equal with Whitfled and Toumpas.

Go watch last years TAC cup grand final and then tell me he isnt a top 5 talent. And on top of that he is an animal with his attack on the footy and is a born leader.

Cant wait til he lines up for the MFC in round 1 2013.

I'll dumb it down for you..

At no stage did i think or say, because others -GA / JW- as mentioned, were picked up at 4o, that we should also be entitled to have that luck.. you've assumed this to support your post.

So nice try, but you'll have to get up a bit earlier than that..

"Never mind the fact Viney is a clear top 5 talent. and pick 3 is a fair price for him." -

This is just your opinion.. i have one too.

In fact, experts in the area have had him in or around the top 1o, some NOT even top 1o - let alone top 2.

Many also put Wines ahead of Viney, who for the same type of footballer, has 3 kgs and height on young jack.. but you already knew this huh?

"He is clearly better than 2 of the kids you listed, and Id have him equal with Whitfled and Toumpas."

Lol - Now youre just highlighting your own lack of knowledge in the area.

"Go watch last years TAC cup grand final and then tell me he isnt a top 5 talent."

So i cant go back into the past to use ablett and watson as an example {even tho theyre both still playing to this day} but you can- to highlight a point youre making about JV??

I'll respond anyway:

I tell you what - I watched every game of this years TAC, which is more relevant than last years, wouldnt you say?..

AND NO, JACK VINEY IS C L E A R L Y NOT TOP 5 AFTER WATCHING THIS YEARS TAC -edit:{for those no-so-bright out there, i meant U18s.. irelevant really}-

GAMES.. clearly.. and thats MY opinion.

If youre going to come out swinging, prepare a little better next time, yeah?