beelzebub

hmm..wont adresss all.. could be here all day firstly had a look at self....yep...just as ugly as this morning.. :-) Miller isnt hated.. we just question the viability of his inclusion in the 1st's.. Fans dont win or lose games.. players do and by referal coaches do. MFC might need to build the product... we dont !! and if they build it...they will come :-)) would I trade Brocky at 28?? in a sec if I thought it was best for the club. Dont trade stalwarts.. ? then you may not remember clubs trading folk such as Peter Moore or Templeton, Croswell ...and i could go on ... ( showing age a bit ) Players are players.. ..I barrack for a TEAM !! Teams win premierships.. ( well ours doesnt..but.... ) I understnd ( as will many ) you have a liking. for Bruce. Good for you. Many also rate him, just not as high or impervious to criticism as yourself. Danners may have got us to a few finals...but each time we were woefully underprepared and /or comptent to the task. When its all shook out...thats all that matters..

Yep...certainly do.. but I ask...why is no one above reproach ? Not saying a bagging.. just a reasoned and thoughtful review of where and what anyone stands for. This is to me part of the systemic problem with Melbourne...we enshrine everything. Just because he's the captain, to me doesnt protect him from our normal observations. Yes he's a brillaint club champion but he's far from perfect. far from all knowing. I'll say it if no one else will...he ( as nay of the players should do ) ought to shut the ***k up and get on with it..do what he does best play footy. He obviously has far too much of an emotional connection with Daniher to offer an unbiased cooment. My rational for this is he's too close to see it in the bigger context. Neeta will be in perfect position to ofer observation of Neale as a person and we can take much from that. Comments like these ( Neitz's) possibly ring the bell of captaincy ?

On one hand I can see Jaded's point of not mattering about the publicness of any goings on re Daniher. Those immediately affected will know. However I can see one benefit of bringing it to the fore. It allows everyone with any form of investment in the MFC , whether it be membership, sponsorship or commentary know that the winds of change are blowing through the cobwebs of stagnation. It might be all thats needed to create a better position going forward for those that make any real decisions. Also lets others know in no uncertain terms that the malaise is over. Mediocrity isnt tolerated, not any more. From another standpoint it reverses things. Much is made of the 'fickleness" of supporters, that we dont possibly understand the true nature of things as we arent privy to all that goes on behind closed doors by people apprently knowing better. It tells many of these same people that those 'others' , the supporters, both spiritually and monetarily ought to be responded too and maybe they were right to a degree. It tells all involved that everyone is on notice and that everyone knows. Yep..make it public, weve been roasted..... their turn !!

In a way youre right... but the point is if he wasnt there doiing what he does best ( and trust me Im no apologist for Hollywood, anyone here will attest that ) we would have been bashed even more. I would suggest he wasnt totall ineffective. He was beaten, but nearly all of our team was. Was just trying to ajudicate from standpoint of who was best six. Bizzel nearly always plays as loose man across the back..nothing new

A lot unfortunately. Thats not said with ay air of belittleness just the observation that many seem far too blinded by some 'attachment' to this player or that !! Some here have proferred the trade of the likes of Yze, Bizzel and some of their cohorts for a long time now. We were barked down as fools back then. Funny how the worm turns. Far too much is implored of players through blinding passion. I dont for one moment suggest to follow this sport without passion just consider the situation we find ourselves in and then adjudicate the realities, not the rose coloured imaginings. There seems far too many idiotic taboos with respect to football, or more precisely the folloing of it. You dare not consider playing supossedly elite players in the 2's , they must always come in to their perviously appointed 'reserved' location on the field, doesnt matter that by doing so opens them up to needless injury extensionetc. and so on and so on. It troubles me that ideas and views such as expressed here by the likes of Deanox ( and others, just his most recent post delivers the dillema succintly ) will fall on deaf ears. It wil be heard as heresy etc. Its just common sense, that most lacking of ingredients. You want to keep your Rose bush lush and beutiful; bountiful and healthy...well you prune liek mad at the righ ttimes and the new growth comes through...and then you do it all over again. Whilst not needing to be quite so brutal to a football team the intent must be the same. For the health and performance of the TEAM personalities and imagined worth must take a back seat to actual contribution thay can make. Sometimes the best contribution possible is by trade. So be it !!

something I will say regards marketablility ec..and th einferred value as media fodder, good will, merchandising etc.. is.. it doesnt really matter who anyone is !! it what any one does.,...not who they are. What is marketable is winning. Start doing that and it wont really matter who is wearing the red and blue they willall become the contemporary heroes. They will then become marketable, they will appear in the minds of supporters etc. Those that went before will be soon relegated to the archives. I may be totally on my own..I dont CARE who wears the jumper, as long as they are doing what is asked of their talent and that is to play 100% Melbourne footy and win !!. To say we cant touch so and so because !!!!! is just foolishness to me. who amongst you plays games of chance ...cards etc. ? What do you do with a dud hand.. you fold... you change up .. you refresh those cards.. Do you get all sentimental because you like the look of the jack of spades ? Well we cant chuck in all the cards, bt we certainly dont need to assign the false value of sentiment to players come the business end of the season. Every one on merit !!

im not sur eone way or other about garland...for me far to early to call, but I'll give you the other 5 jaded. I have my fingers crossed wrt Frawley. Once he gets the first dozen games out of the way ( I.e hopef ully rest of season ) he ought to settle. Id like to see Dunn and Newton in tandem as CHF and FF resp.. They play well together in zebby colours :-) A good understanding of where the other is. Im really not sure where to put Bate, but happy for him to be on the ground.

surely not..I'll pop down the 7/11 and pick one up !!

Demoniac.. a pretty fair appraisal as it stands.. I woud submit though that its a bit rough putting Buckley up as we havent really seen anyhting of him yet. Id keep for moment as well PJ.. but trade Russian as you have it. Still if a good deal came along and PJ was part of it.. fair go. Quite frankly Dunn Bell Batram C Johnson even Carroll can be in the mix. we need the best we can get, not the best we've got !!. Happy to put Green Trapper ..Bruce up for grabs. Not saying I want rid of them, just that Im happy to consider anything invoilving them on its merits. Fergs Miller..yep.. trade them Wheats i would keep. I still want him as our main kickout man. The list of who's absolutely utouchable isnt for me as huge as many others !!

hey Haydo.. up til Wreckers injury was he playing at a level where in your opinion you would have played him in the One's ?

much can be made of not so much what we Dees think of either Brocky or Cam, but how the opposition treat them. Suffice to say Wallace chose to shut Brock down with additional minders and not Bruce.

I m happy to be corrected here.. but my understanding of the procedures of procurement would follow something like this. The Caoch(s) and indeed the football dept would meet to establish the filled and holes of a team. identify what they have, what they'd like to have what they need to get and what they have to get it. They will also appraise the already in house recruits as to status of development and likely retainment. They arrive at various criteria and descriptions of players wanted. This is passed to recruitment , who may or may not have been involved in some minor way all along..but necessarily. Recruitment on the basis of the shopping list and its knowledge of what is out there isolates a particular group of players as potential fodder for the mill. The football dept review what is found and further identify certain players as targets. Then its off to the cirrcus known as trade and drafting. Now recruitment can only work with whats its given. They I can imagine will try to find the best available given the requirements as laid down by the coaches. If the coaches describe a round box with smooth edges thats got five legs.. then thats what recruitment goes looking for. So you can see...The Coaches and co are driving the bus.. Recruitment is only there to fill it with petrol.. if the directions are wrng...its not recruiting's fault. or I may have it all wrong.

mate..I agree.. thats the whole thing.. CAC can get some good players.. but if Danners and Co doesnt want to bring them on...because "they' have some ideas about it all.. Then hows that CAC's fault.

whoa !! wake up bud!! CAC scouts, finds and helps recruit them... after that its up to the coaches. he can force danners and Co when or where to play them, he has no ability to make williams play them in this poz or that. I dont see that CAC has done very much wrong. your entitle to your opinion.. I'm not apologist for anyone. Hes done far more good than bad..

This is not about whether danners is a good bloke.. i can only imagine every man and woman to a t here thinks he's done a grand job in most every respect except.... du du dahhhhhhh....CAOCHING !! its not about being a nice bloke...just effective !!!

can we try before we buy... I year for nix ?? :-))

only really want one to stay out of all that lot.. one Craig Cameron !! he's been stirling and its hardly his fault his efforts arent realised and appreciated !! Fagan seems to do ok .. No one else is setting the world on fire !!

.....that's like SO yesterday !!!!!!!! In all seriousness.. he's had all the chances anyone needs. NEXT !!!!!!!

funny ...be saying that for over a month now.. but apparently to some that was showing the white flag. This season was done and dusted weeks and weeks ago.. The couple of wins were an abberation. I wholeheartedly agree.. We need to focus on 2008... we may get a few wins.. or we may not.. it really doesnt matter. Getting a running start at next year does. If Danners isnt up for that ......he might as well go now and we'll use an assistant as caretaker.

Havent actually heard ND come clean as yet.. seems its all invariably the teams fault.. That he is in charge of amalgamating that team and preparing it for batle along with its tactics doesnt seem to occur to him to be a contributing factor!! Me thinks Gardner might be bringing this to his attention

yes..the prudent thing for all concerned is to agree on teh details and condition s of Danners exit. As alluded we are then free to start teh search and stake our possie as first cab off the rank. Allows Danners some freereign of sorts.. ( well pressure is off ) to do something. Hpoefully he'll find a position at another coach... this alone will assure Melbourne of one or two wins a year !!

psssstttt !! over here :-)))) http://demonland.nozzs.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=6248

was it too wet ?? ffs...hardly. thisis football...you dont get to orchestrate everything to your favour , you need to take advantage and create opportunities as they come along. Compare Danners ineptitude and reluctance to do anything inspired as compared to th playing by Micky ouse of a kid with one year in footy. Again another clever move by Colllingwood, again another lost chance by Melbourne. We needed another tallish player up front to act as either target or decoy to help Robbo. Blind freddy knew this.. Why pick Ooze when seemingly obvious to everyone except melb football dept that he was undercooked and succeptible. The two inclusions for friday night were Wrecker and Juice. Chalk up another F**k up to the football dept. If you couldnt debut a kid agaisnt the 'then ' worst team in the league...well...when ??

In order White... a lone winner in his position, competed well. unsuuported. Bizzel... A steadying influence across the danger zone. Must admit might have been far worse without his level head that game. Dutchy.. put his hand up amongst a sea of medicrity and uselessness Godfrey.. tries ...tries...tries.. Petterd... still showing glimpses of quality when all around desert him. Brocky.. yes.. a less than blue ribbon effor t, but he kept at it.. even though he knoew it wasnt his night.. He didnt give up or shirk. thats commendable. well thats how I saw it anyway.

all football operation s essentially flow or fan out from teh appointee of the coach. That will determine his enterage, and the likley thinki gof trades and drafts and by this the future makeup and emphasis of the team. Business carries on at a different pace. At present our crisis is the performance of the team and its leadership by teh coach. I stand by my original stance... The coaching position is the only one to be focussing in on right at this moment.