Doggo

6. Green

5. Bell

4. Bruce

3. Wheatley

2. Carroll

1. Johnson P (last 1/4 efort outstanding)

Some of those marks dropping back into the hole in the last, one in particular running back with the flight into a leading player (Welsh, i think), were superb. He really has improved outta sight: his overhead skills no longer seem to be an issue. And i thought he rucked really well today too. Starting to look the goods, and just keeps getting better and better every week.

Thought he was stiff not to be given that mark in our forwardline that was paid to the man behind. Whatever happened to the 'man in front' rule?

This is a great post. Here here Jaded.

Today, i think we all felt the passion!

I know i i've never felt more glad to hear "Grand Old Flag" than when the siren rang today! (i probably have, but it's been a long time coming this year)

To condemned 84: I've got a couple of tatts too (not a lot, but a few), but too am waiting for that flag for a new one on my arm. Hopefully it says "MFC 2008"

Felt truly proud to be a part of the MFC today, and like everyone else here, will be for the rest of my life.

I love the boy! Well and truly love him... (no homo-erotic slurs, please! )

Bell - I LOVE YOU!!!

Johnson- gOOD bYE jAMAR

Johnson - Strong over-head

How good were some of those saving marks in the defensive 50??

NO.

NO.

NO.

Why (football) God? WHHHHYYYYYYYYY??!?!?!?!?!

Doggo,

PJ has not really repaid the faith.

Jamar has just cashed his in.

PJ and Jamar are not there yet. If anyone is going to make it in today's footy I think it is PJ. Note I did not say will. PJ still has a lot to prove IMO.

Point taken.

My point, more than anything though, is that he hasn't been the hopless sod that many here had predicted.

Rather, he has looked far more likely to succeed than Jamar in a much shorter amount of time. And that was the faith that i had in him. There's still a long way to go for him, but from all indications, he is moving in the right drection.

Interesting to see how many peoples opinions have changed since last year.

I think i posted the last post before this thread got bumped, and i'm glad to say i still feel the same as i did then.

More than anything tho, just happy that PJ is repaying a bit of faith i'd had in him.

I'll be there if it's on! Love the sweet taste of beer from a premiership-shaped cup... (my avatar says it all!)

Just PM me the details whenever it gets confirmed and i'll be there with bells on!

Cheers,

Doggo

Im not really sure why

Are, or have you been, watching the same Jamar as the rest of us?

Shocking. Pure and simple. He is crap.

One of PJ or Jamar will need to get the flick at the end of the year. Jamar has had 2 years to prove himself, now it's PJs turn.

So far, we know who is winning the 'influence around the ground' votes. Mind you, PJ doesn't do a whole lot. But I do cheer when he takes a contested over-head mark, and I let everyone around me know about it. Sure, they all think I'm crazy, but it warms my heart :D

You'd surely have to say it's Jamar going, wouldnt ya?

PJ's rucking may not be great yet, but he's still learning the trade, and IMO, he isnt all that much worse than Jamar in the taps. And he seems to be getting better each week. He knows how to mark overhead now too! How good is that?

I hate to say i told ya so, but i always knew he was going to be better than Jamar.

Jamar just has no idea, rucking and around the ground, or how to play football. MUST be gone at the end of the year.

Dont you wish u could just go back in time to when this was all still a possibility?

I loved reading that article... no matter how inaccurate it is (in hindsight)

But bater is pretty tall, im about the same height as you and he seemed a fair bit taller than me...

Might just be his posture maybe? He does run with a 'crouched' back... maybe he's a stack taller when he's standing up straight?

He just doesnt look that tall on the ground, know what i mean?

then stop and have a look at what has changed. the afl brought in the 'jeff white rule', which means all ruckman need to be within 5 metres of the bounce. what chance does jeff now have to compete against opposition rucks who are 5-15cm taller than him? the afl changed the rules, stripping him off his run and jump effectively ending his reign as the dominant ruckman. yes he has been out of form this year but to anyone who thinks he does less than try his best, and to anyone who thinks he is not a great ruckman because of lack of ability have a good hard think about this first...

I dont think he's not trying. He's trying his absolute guts out, 110%, and getting beaten. I've seen him at his best, and i loved him when he was. But he is not there now.

You cant ignore or deny that he got absolutely smashed on the weekend by Cox/Seaby, and has been getting regularly beaten in the ruck for sometime. PJ wasnt great either, but still managed the same amount of hitouts as Jeff in half an hour less game time (6 HO's each, 17% effectiveness each. White played 90% gametime, PJ 60%). It was probably the first time Jeff hadnt got more than 10 hitouts in a game for a long, long time.

Jeff's just not getting near it in the taps.

I love his commitment to the club and his ability around the ground, but unfortunately we're gonna have to figure something out very soon in the ruck stocks, because Jeff's getting old and seems to have lost "it" in the ruck. Maybe PJ playing more game time in the ruck, White playing more in the forward line? PJ looks to be coming along nicely, much better than Jamar has. And elevating Neaves when possible and seeing how he might go at the highest level. Jamar wont be there next year.

I just hope Whitey can prove me wrong soon, because i really love him as a player. C'mon Whitey!!!!

How did CJ go?

According to the HUN, he was B.O.G, but hasnt really raised a mention at all on here.

newton is 193cm and 90 kg according to the mfc site.

miller - 194cm 96kg

dunn 192cm 90kg

carrol 191cm 91kg

bate 192cm 90

ok so he is slightly on the smaller side, but he is not tiny.

garland is listed at 191cm and 84 kg fwiw

the big interest for me is from the essendon website. lloyd is listed as 192cm and 91kg, does anyone think he is too small?

I wouldnt read too much into those "official" figures... Clubs are known to over or underplay certain players heights and weights, and always have. Lloyd is certainly taller and heavier than that. Without a doubt.

I've met Juice personally and he's probably even taller than 193cm. Definately taller than Miller in real life, who didnt seem all that much taller than me (i'm 187cm). Miller actually looked a touch short for a KPP. Would surprise me if he's much taller than 190cm in reality, but i'm sure the FD want other teams to believe he is taller than he is so he draws a quality tall away from Robbo or Neitz.

There's no way Bate is taller than Carroll. He's a big unit, but not that tall, though Carroll's not that tall either. But just from lookin at them on the field, clearly taller than Bate. Bate's gotta be around the 187-189cm mark really. Same mid-size height as a CJ, Bizzell, or Belly i'd reckon.

I remember meeting Troy Broadbridge at the supermarket during the 2004 season and was amazed at how tall he was, though he was only listed at 191cm on the website, he told me that he was actually closer to 195cm at the last time the club had done measurements.

Neita is listed at 193cm 100kg, Miller 194cm... theres no way Miller is taller than Neita, honestly.

Catch my drift?...

Also did MFC look at Alwyn Davey at all??

Yeah we did. He did a pre-season with us (maybe even 2, correct me if i'm wrong?), but seemed too much of a risk with his size, weight, and like Aaron (tho he has improved a lot this year in this regard), deficiencies overhead. nd he wasnt setting the world on fire in the SANFL by most accounts.

The FD probably didnt think we had room for two, 'soft' like-typed players with obvious deficiencies on our list, which seems fair enough. Though how handy would Alwyn be for us now with Aaron moving up the ground? Hindsight is a b*tch sometimes...

Just watching the bombers 2day and enjoyed watchin Alwyn style of play.. Who would you prefer out of the 2 brothers?? I would still choose Arron because i think he will give us more in the future and has bit more polish with the footy.. Also did MFC look at Alwyn Davey at all?? Would of been magic watching the two of them 2gether, and if the game was tight they could move Arron up around the ball and still have a Livewire inside 50!!

Alwyn Davey VS ARRON DAVEY

Fast Facts

DOB: 15/05/1984 - 10/06/1983

2007 Home & Away Totals (RD7)

Matches:7 -----7

Goals: 11------8

Marks: 29------24

Disposals: 91--114

Kicks: 49-------87

I think it would be probably more interesting and insightful to compare their first 7 games to each others... i cant be bothered now, but someone should!

Though i do agree with YM... Aaron will always be the better, more versatile brother... (in my eyes anyway)...

But you gotta admit, Alwyn does do all the things that we came to love about Aaron!

On the MFC website, there's a poll asking the fans who they want to see debut next... I was fascinated by the results so far...

Buckley - 33%

Frawley - 31%

Neville - 19%

Newton - 17%

I voted for Newton on there last week, and he was clearly ahead of Neville at that stage. Maybe one of Nev's mates (or himself even) got on there and just kept voting and voting to boost his chances for selection! haha

Seniors

Sandringham 5.3.35 9.5.59 13.9.87 16.16.112

Williamstown 1.1.7 7.8.50 10.10.70 13.12.90

Goals

Sandringham Robertson 4 Sautner 3 Hughes Newton Pickett 2 Gallagher Garland Liddell

Williamstown Johnson 4 Clarke Greene Iles Limbach Medhurst Meyer Proctor Rose Williams

Best

Sandringham Johnson Wheatley Holland Bizzell Summers Neaves

The bests in this seem a bit different to what everyone has been saying. No Robbo or Juice in the bests, Johnson (Chris?) B.O.G?... Holland and Bizzell named in there...

Hmmm... Who wrote this top 6?

Nice to see Neville B.O.G in the Ressies... maybe might actually get a game in the firsts one day...

And none of the three have done well in tight physical games or September. Its clayton's stuff that is overrated on this site. Robbo is useless when the ball hits the turf and does not chase. He was lucky not to be dropped last year.

Harsh on Robbo in regards to finals performances. I may be incorrect, but in our last 4 finals appearances, Robbo has scored 12 goals. More than any other player on the list since and including the 2004 finals series. Very much a big game player for mine...

Your opinion is just that Doggo.......

But please do not pretend that Brad Miller (among others) has not copped more than his fair share of criticism, abuse and vitriol on this or the other site, and been blamed for losses and bad play in what is still, the last time I checked, a team sport. And he has been scapegoated a hell of a lot.

I'd like to see Brad succeed as much as anybody would. I'm not what you'd call a typical 'Miller-basher', in fact, i like Brad. Have met him on several occassions and he seems a great guy, and also an admirable gut-runner on the track and in games. But, I'm of the opinion that we would be better served with Brad as a defender given his limitations. He is not a naturally attacking player, therefore in my eyes will never be as good a CHF as we'd need to win the flag in the future. Why should we persist with him in that position when he has not shown what is required in 5 seasons of footy? Simple.

I am not blaming Brad in any way.

In fact, i find that in the games where we have played well this season, he has gone missing, and when we have played poorly, he seems to play better. Which really is in complete contradiction to the "Miller is why we lost" or "Why we are playing badly" scapegoat argument. But I think this is testement to his workrate. When others are not trying as hard, he lifts.

And i'm not pretending he hasnt been scapegoted like hell. But i do understand why he has... there are many supporters, myself included (actually, i can only speak for myself on this), who would like to see Neale accept Brad's flaws, and change his game plan accordingly. Miller leading far and wide has not worked, time to cut your losses ND and change something. I.e-- Miller to the backline permenantly, or to the VFL to play as an out and out attacking forward. And if he can't cut it as a goal-kicking, pack-busting CHF at VFL level, then thats all the answers we need to the questions we've been asking for a few years now.

I think anyone who can consistently rack up high-20's week-in week-out, seemingly without even trying, must have a huge engine.

I've always known his aerobic capacity was huge, one of the main reasons we drafted him. I agree with most of whats been said here, at full fitness, Bruce is probably top 5 in the league for engine.

Just not the quickest, or best kick. Hah

He doesn't have good awareness. Seen him get run down far too many times for someone of his speed and supposed talent.

To be fair, neither has Belly.

But that doesnt mean he's not worth giving a go, even if he is 'safe' come seasons end.

He was dropped in 2002, I think it was.

He went back to Sandy and took an absolute screamer (and dominated) and was back in the side a couple of weeks later.

I remember that. In his first week at Sandy he kicked 4 and played a pretty good game, but obviously not good enough for him to have shown he'd learnt his lesson and force himself back into the side. Kicked 3 or 4 the next week playing up the ground on wing/HF but still couldnt get back in. Then, the next week he kicked 5.8 and took about twenty marks playing in the FP.

I went to that match and was gobsmacked. Clearly far far too good for VFL level was our Robbo.